People keep forgetting that Evan had hurt his foot and he made the decision not to do the quad at the Olympics. he did not want to chance re hurting his foot. heck, he won without the jump. Plushenko did the quad but he front loaded his program with jumps that were crooked in the air with sloppy landings. Ugly technique. Evan skated a terrific lp. The right skater won. So there!
USOC / NBC Praise for Evan Lysacek
- Thread starter janetfan
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...except not. If you actually look at Evan's edge quality, his speed, his fluidity, his expression, his choreography and musical interpretation, none of it was nearly fitting of the scores he received.
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Hateful? As in detestable, odious, offensive, repellent? Drowns kittens in his spare time just for the sadistic pleasure of it?
Evan is like everyone else -- trying to make his way through this vale of tears as best he can.
About his performance skills, no, he is not an artist. But he puts on an entertaining show. Song and dance man rather than danseur. Different strokes for different folks.
About Evan versus Johnny -- everyone is allowed to be a fame-seeker. It's the American way. :yes:
Evan is like everyone else -- trying to make his way through this vale of tears as best he can.
About his performance skills, no, he is not an artist. But he puts on an entertaining show. Song and dance man rather than danseur. Different strokes for different folks.
About Evan versus Johnny -- everyone is allowed to be a fame-seeker. It's the American way. :yes:
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Thanks for your reply blades. I like this post better. About fame seekers - i don't see one skater having more of a right to pursue a goal or dream than another based on their skating style. It is subjective anyway and if I have no trouble saying Johnny is a more artisitic skater than Evan I also say just as easily that Evan is a better CoP skater than Johnny.
Neither one is my favorite and I prefer Boitano on an off night over Evan or Johnny at their best. It's subjective.
Trixie and Janet - no one at GS will ever find a post I made that disputed that decision. If Trixie beat Janet under today's rules of course I would be outraged. But I see little relationship about that and the USOC thanking Evan for acting the way he did.
If I say Johnny is a more artistic skater than Evan and that Plushy is a better quad jumper than Evan what does that change. They were all competing under the same rules.
The topic was about the USOC thanking Evan for the way he handled the situation.
BTW, I think Johnny could have been thanked as well. His behavior after his scores went up was very admirable at a moment when he could have felt stinging rejection.
Instead he showed us that he cared more about his perfornace than his score.
Maybe that changed later but in Vancouver Johnny was terrific.
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It doesn't matter if you have an injury - IT'S A SPORT. If you can't do a move then, too bad, you can't do it and you're at a disadvantage.
You don't know much about technique (or are being willfully blind) if you criticize Plushenko's mistakes but don't criticize Evan's. His jumps are small and his Triple Axels have poor technique (the second one was barely rotated). The talk about "frontloading" is pointless as well. That layout of Lysacek's jumps was MORE clumped than Plushenko's. Lysacek did 3 jumping passes back-to-back-to-back at the start of his program and than did 5 jumping passes back-to-back-to-back starting exactly at the half-way point of his program. Plushenko did 4 jumps, then took time to do other moves and choreography before doing another jump, and then he spent a large portion of his program actually performing before doing another series of 3 jumps.
Nobody can defend what Lysacek did as a well balanced program. Moreover, he didn't "skate a terrific program" at all. Please, tell me exactly how? How did his movements interpret the music? How was his skating exciting? How was his edge quality anything worth writing about? What moves did he do that were special in any way whatsoever?
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Agreed, Math.
Someone cited Beatrix Schuba. When Trixi Schuba won the Olympic medal, it was disappointing, but it didn't show what a terrible person Schuba was. It just showed that the scoring system was off kilter. As Mathman says, everyone who enters the Olympics is skating with a certain amount of confidence--maybe egotism--and ambition. How they do depends on their efforts to a point. After that, it depends on whether their opponents screw up, and how the judges weigh the performances. Evan won that night because of the combination of those factors, not because he took some kind of awful advantage of Plushenko. He's not a skater for the ages, certainly. Math, I like your description of him as "song and dance man, not danseur." But he was the winner that night. Someone else will have to advance skating to the next level. (I'm hoping for Takahashi, but we'll see when Sochi rolls around.)
Another parallel: if the Soviet skater (his name eludes me, but he was a workmanlike guy with a world championship and next to no soul in his skating) had defeated John Curry in 1976, it would have been a huge disappointment and maybe even an injustice. But it would not have been the fault of the skater.
Someone cited Beatrix Schuba. When Trixi Schuba won the Olympic medal, it was disappointing, but it didn't show what a terrible person Schuba was. It just showed that the scoring system was off kilter. As Mathman says, everyone who enters the Olympics is skating with a certain amount of confidence--maybe egotism--and ambition. How they do depends on their efforts to a point. After that, it depends on whether their opponents screw up, and how the judges weigh the performances. Evan won that night because of the combination of those factors, not because he took some kind of awful advantage of Plushenko. He's not a skater for the ages, certainly. Math, I like your description of him as "song and dance man, not danseur." But he was the winner that night. Someone else will have to advance skating to the next level. (I'm hoping for Takahashi, but we'll see when Sochi rolls around.)
Another parallel: if the Soviet skater (his name eludes me, but he was a workmanlike guy with a world championship and next to no soul in his skating) had defeated John Curry in 1976, it would have been a huge disappointment and maybe even an injustice. But it would not have been the fault of the skater.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I read somewhere -- not sure whether this is true or not -- that in the famous "Battle of the Brians" in 1988, Brian Orser managed to sneak a peek at Brian Boitano's planned element card. He saw that Boitano had only one triple Axel planned. So Orser, to be on the safe side, did only one triple Axel in his LP.
Boitano double crossed him by throwing in a second triple Axel and won the gold medal.
(Speaking of the 2003 World championship, Plushenko was good, Michelle Kwan was very good
, but the night belonged to Shen and Zhou's Turendot 
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- Jan 23, 2004
Thanks for posting. Great article.
I’m pretty far from a Evan fan but I’m glad he didn’t get in the war of words with Plushenko. It was obvious that the quad wasn’t everything when Jeff Buttle won worlds whom I adore. I guess Plushenko didn’t see that competition. IMO Joubert and Plushenko look like sore losers. Plus who listens to Elvis with his beautiful skating.
Yes Evan is fake and about himself but what was he going to say about the quad now that he has the big prize. Personally I wish Dai was standing on top. Now that's a skater with everything. Too bad the best don't always win.
Yes Evan is fake and about himself but what was he going to say about the quad now that he has the big prize. Personally I wish Dai was standing on top. Now that's a skater with everything. Too bad the best don't always win.Yeah, Seniorita, that Shen/Zhao performance was an immortal moment in skating. I can't choose a favorite worlds ever, but that year is certainly one of them. There's that little lift he does of her, just picking her up and placing her down, that is so individual and so heartfelt. And the backstory with her injury, and their determination not to let mere bodily shortcomings stop them, adds to both the tension and the marvel of it.
Skates like that spoil us rotten. No wonder we sniff at lesser performances, when we've seen something like that. It went beyond gold. Platinum, maybe. Or electrum.
Skates like that spoil us rotten. No wonder we sniff at lesser performances, when we've seen something like that. It went beyond gold. Platinum, maybe. Or electrum.
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- Jun 21, 2003
The scoring at that competition was quite thought-provoking, actually (I just looked it up.
)Curry won outright with 2rd in figures, 2nd in the short, and 1st for his performance-for-the-ages LP.
The Russian guy that you mentioned nipped wild card Toller Cranston by a fraction of a point for silver. Kovalev got 3rd in figures, 6th in the SP, and 4th in the LP. Cranston went 7th, 1st, 2nd. Figures rule!
Except that the guy who got first place in figures, -- another Russian, Volkov -- then got 4th in the SP and dropped to 9th in the LP. He finished fifth, behind Jan Hoffmann, 4th, 9th, 5th.
The truly strange placement was the U.S. entry John Santee. He got more total points than Volkov (184.28 to 184.08) and he aslo beat him in total "places" (49 for Santee, 53 for Volkov -- lower is better.)
I guess we should be thankful for the simplicity of the CoP scoring system.
Ah, yes! Kovalev. Thanks!
I remember how Cranston crawled up from the depths in school figures. I had forgotten that he actually aced the short. Curry and Cranston were the first skaters I adored. I was so thrilled when both of them ended up on the podium. Even today, their short and long programs still amaze. They were both the Real Thing, and both of them influenced skating ever afterward.
I remember how Cranston crawled up from the depths in school figures. I had forgotten that he actually aced the short. Curry and Cranston were the first skaters I adored. I was so thrilled when both of them ended up on the podium. Even today, their short and long programs still amaze. They were both the Real Thing, and both of them influenced skating ever afterward.
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The very term "CoP skater" is damaging, though, considering the CoP is poorly written and needs so many changes still. Why should we praise someone for exploiting a bad set of rules which don't actually represent what competitive skating as a whole is supposed to be?
I don't agree that Evan is a better "CoP skater" anyway. He was very overscored, both in the GOE of his elements and his PCS. He's not a great CoP skater, he's just consistent and often gets overrewarded for it.
It's like this - think of someone who can consistently juggle 3 bowling pins but can never do better than that. Now, look at someone who is able to juggle 4 or 5 bowling pins but sometimes fails and drops them. The guy who was able to juggle his 3 without dropping them deserves to win when the other guy has a bad night, but when that other guy is successful in juggling 4 or 5, you don't just say "oh, the person who juggled 3 should still be the winner because he's done it so many times in the past when you weren't at your best."
Yes, indeed. Unless attacking someone's sexuality isn't hateful. Or saying a 3-time U.S. champion and top-ranked international competitor who is known for his performance ability "isn't good enough to skate in a show", a show which employs people who have never been higher than U.S. Bronze Medalist, isn't hateful. That's just among the public statements too.
I know that the ISU sets the rules and that different ways to win but if you look at Takahashi it made as much sense for him to try a quad as it did Lysacek. But Takahashi felt he is at the Olympics he must try one. You can't even say Lysacek didn't have that weeks earlier at the US National Championships when he tried a quad and failed. It is so crazy to think that he would be willing to reinjure himself before the Olympics than at the Olympics? I don't think it was injury related. He would just rather skate clean than be bold or have the "true spirit of an Olympian" that Plushenko and Takahashi had.
The raising of the value of the quad is not as good as getting skaters to do them again! Under 6.0 the judges could reward them so much more! But with COP it's just another element that has been rendered meaningless to a large extent.
It is also crazy to think that at one point the debate had gone beyond quads to quad combos and now it is back to doing a quad at all.
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- Jan 31, 2007
The scoring at that competition was quite thought-provoking, actually (I just looked it up.
Curry won outright with 2rd in figures, 2nd in the short, and 1st for his performance-for-the-ages LP.
The Russian guy that you mentioned nipped wild card Toller Cranston by a fraction of a point for silver. Kovalev got 3rd in figures, 6th in the SP, and 4th in the LP. Cranston went 7th, 1st, 2nd. Figures rule!
Except that the guy who got first place in figures, -- another Russian, Volkov -- then got 4th in the SP and dropped to 9th in the LP. He finished fifth, behind Jan Hoffmann, 4th, 9th, 5th.
The truly strange placement was the U.S. entry John Santee. He got more total points than Volkov (184.28 to 184.08) and he aslo beat him in total "places" (49 for Santee, 53 for Volkov -- lower is better.)
I guess we should be thankful for the simplicity of the CoP scoring system.
I was thinking Sergei Volkov was the 1975 World Champion. Kovalev won Worlds in 1977 and 1979. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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- May 15, 2009
I sympathize with you. But like I said, I don't care about a good quad more than a good 3A and I actually like a tano lutz quite a bit too. Too bad they are too hard for most skaters and nice to see Rippon bring it back with his own variation.
I much prefer Jeff Buttle to Brian Joubert at '08 Wolrds. I did then and I do now. It's subjective and a matter of what we like.
The medals though are given out by judges.
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- Jun 21, 2003
But still...I don't think Evan had to try a quad just to show how manly he was or how brimming with the Olympic spirit. He just had to skate the best he could. Let Plushenko and the others do the best they could.
If skaters of the future want to try quad combos, let them do so. Do a good 4T-3T and you've grabbed 16 points right out of the box.
I wish Lysacek would come out with a proclamation (like Sarah Palin's daughter, in her campaign against teenage pregnancy), "do as I say, not as I do. Jump a quad!"
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- May 15, 2009
But still...I don't think Evan had to try a quad just to show how manly he was or how brimming with the Olympic spirit. He just had to skate the best he could. Let Plushenko and the others do the best they could.
If skaters of the future want to try quad combos, let them do so. Do a good 4T-3T and you've grabbed 16 points right out of the box.
I wish Lysacek would come out with a proclamation (like Sarah Palin's daughter, in her campaign against teenage pregnancy), "do as I say, not as I do. Jump a quad!"
Interesting - all this talk about Evan not trying a quad.
Everyone of you is wrong. Evan has a coach and he is the one who decides what Evan will jump.
Now don't all of you feel silly with your misdirected comments about Evan
If we want to get down to it in 2010 Frank Carroll prepared and guided his skater with better strategy than did most of the other coaches.
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