Watching Campbell's on TV

[Rgirl]

VASH RE POST #35:
After rewatching my tape and especially looking at Shizza and Joannie's performances, ITA with you. The greater difficulty on the jump entrances was, IMO, a major factor. Tarasova is terrific at choreographing these for her skaters. When Cohen was doing TT's versions of "Swan Lake," i.e., the black-&-white one, every one of her jump entrances had footwork or 3 turns into it. And the FW into the jumps wasn't just stroke-half-turn-stroke; they were tough. Shizza is 10 times the jumper Sasha was then and still is now, so now knowing Shizza had just come from a competition in Japan where she finished second to Irina, I'm chalking her lackluster and problematic performance to jet lag and fatigue.

Plus, as you say, it was a squeaker between Shizza and Joannie's point totals. Joannie has many wonderful qualities as a skater and if her coach and/or choreographer would toughen up her jump entrances, which I think would not be a problem for her considering what looked like strong jumping technique, I think Joannie's chances for finishing perhaps in the top five at Olys and/or Worlds (possibly a podium spot at Worlds, depending on who shows up) would be greatly improved.

Much as I enjoyed and admired Joannie's musical interpretation and overall flow, those qualities are not going to get her the points that Shizza's strengths will if both skate their A game. It's too bad Joannie didn't get the genes for more flexibility, extension, and amplitude on things such as her spins and spiral sequence, but life isn't fair. Irina doesn't have a ballet body either, but she got other things that make her the formidable skater she is and has been under both the OBO and COP judging systems.

As always, your analyses are insightful, right on the money, reflect a skater's understanding, and generally avoid fan favoritism or dislike of a skater. You are an overall figure skating analyzer's analyzer. I know I and I'm sure most other GSers look forward to your reviews of this season's competitions. Always, but especially during an Olympic year when fan fervor is high, it's important, IMO, to have the input of someone who both skates and can convey what good skating is verbally, and concisely, plus be unbiased--as much as humanly possible--in his reviews. Go Vash!

Rgirl

 

[Doggygirl]

Understanding Joannie's 4th place finish

I've been out of town, otherwise I would have looked and the judges score sheets much sooner!! While I haven't watched the ABC broadcast yet (and it sounds like I didn't miss much given the comments about the coverage!) I did see the home made videos from fsvids. I agree with those who have said that Joannie's program has tons of potential.

To me, it looks like the combination of the fall on the 3Z cost her 4 points in TES (-1 for the fall and -3 GOE) and almost another 4 points for the 2F instead of 3F following that. I was VERY glad to see that Joannie was ranked 2nd in the PCS department. IMO, I think some of her PCS scores from last year at some events should have been higher, so I thought this was good news.

I'm always hesitant to get into the "what if" conversations since the only thing that matters (or should matter IMO) is what actually occurs on the ice. But I think the score sheets have tons of value is seeing what a particular program could be worth in a relative sense if skated cleanly. In this case, it appears that Joannie's program as it is right now is potentially worth about 8 more TES points that what she presented. I like her skating and find this encouraging.

I also like Shiz's skating when she is "on." I hope she can find that within herself this season. I've only seen the videos from JIP and Campbell's over the internet, so sometimes it's hard to tell. While she still had troubles at JIP, I think that performance of the program was better.

Good for Kimmie on the solid jumps. She certainly has a bright future if she can hold onto those, and continue to develop the rest. for Czisney. Such a lovely skater. I hope that Campbell's was a "get the nerves out of your system for the season" skate for Emily. The thing I enjoy most about her good skates is her energy and enthusiasm.

DG

 

[emma]

Your description of good stroking is absolutely spot on but stroking is not normally quiet - a good solid fast edge will usually "growl" for lack of a better word as it runs along the ice what you should not here is a scraping sound which is the sound of catching a toe pick or edge as you stroke. Also look for how much effort the skater to putting in - if they are making a whole lot of effor and not going very fast they are not stroking efficiently or on good edges. If they put very little effort yet move quickly (eg Kwan) then they are very good at using the blade and edge to generate power.

Ant

Thanks bdreampixie and ant....I find it hard to watch the feet and take in the performance....and usually opt for the former, but with all this downloading going on, I certainly have more opportunity to re-watch and pay attention to the feet!

Thanks to all the great posts on this event with all the detail...this thread is a great read!

 

[Frau Muller]

Random thoughts on ABC's coverage of the Campbell's cheesefest:

Kudos:

GOOD to see Dick Button back on the commentating team, after missing Moscow Worlds. It just ain't the same without 'Uncle Dickie'! [funny aside - At first I thought - "Dick has lost a lot of weight..." then I realized that the bald-headed guy that I was viewing was Kurt Browning.]

There was no Smuckers SkyCam zipping around suspended from the ceiling, showing skaters in ugly angles, THANK GOODNESS! Instead we had - what? - the 'Smuckers Style Moment.' That's OK. It was nice to see only good camerawork on the ice. Thank you, ABC.

Sasha was SPECTACULAR, despite two or three small stumbles. After years of trying - trying - TRYING so hard to be a 'ballerina on ice' she finally has a ballerina's physique and grace, to go along with her high extensions and pointed feet! Her elongated torso is now magnificent. her gold dress is my favorite Sasha costume ever.

The ladies programs were all wonderful, if not all perfectly executed. There wasn't a dull one in the lot. Joannie's was the most intricate & delightful...but I can see myself warming up to Arakawa's fabulous Chopin, in time, once she can skate it cleanly & with abandon.

Tanith & Ben look gorgeous as ever, even though I'm not fully sold by their 'Jaleo' free dance just yet.

Lemons -

The men's event, in general. WHAT THE CRAP happened with Weiss and Goebel being chacked? Their agents didn't pay someone off at ABC? And for WHAT were they not shown - the 'boring bombs' of Weir & Lysacek??? :frown2:

Fleming's obvious pro-Sasha bias, failing to point-out Sasha's faults...including the trip during the circular footwork. What's more, two seconds after Sasha tripped, Peggy gushed "Oh, her footwork is just so spectacular!"

ABC's continuing use of the garbage can lid STOMP! intro. Classy, guys - classy. STOMP! -- which is owned by Disney or ABC -- must still be on Broadway. They're milking this one to death, it appears.

ABC's newest stupid gimmick -- placing mikes on the coaches, thus making some of the coaches have to think of clever & enlightening things to say at the boards or in Kiss n'Cry...such as Tarasova's ever-so-enlightening comment to Arakawa while awaiting the scores: "You had to skate cleanly!" Or Frank Carroll's comment to Evan at the boards, "Have fun!" [Yeah - we all know how much fun Evan had, seconds later, with 'Grease'!]

THE BIGGEST LEMON OF ALL (despite my love of the skater & her program): SASHA's SPIT. Not a genteel little spit...but a big ole hockey-player style yuk. Next time, ABC can place a 'spitoon cam' by the boards!!!

 

[Doggygirl]

Oops - the men and Inoue / Baldwin

I hope Johnny's program continues to develop. Evan's program?? Yikes! I really hope Team Evan goes back to the drawing board. I hope Tim can get the jumps back. And good for Mike pulling out the finish he did. He has certainly contributed to US Men's figure skating over the years as a good "catch" player. Overall though, and unfortunate "best of the worst" comp for the men - even considering it's early in the season.

I'm sorry to hear they did not show I/B's program. I really enjoyed the home video. The funniest part was at the beginning, they strike their pose, and the wrong music comes on - a Flamenco type music. When they heard the wrong music, Inoue sort of skated away from center ice, but Baldwin followed her and was doing these humorous and dramtic moves in the theme of the wrong music. I liked their program once they got going with the right music.

DG

 

[waxel]

Missed a great deal of the competition (including the Men and Sasha) ... but the Ladies I did see were decidedly disappointing. Was never a fan of the 1st Hughes sister and not one of the latest entry. Guess I'll give her a little grace if she was skating after an illness (and it seemed she had trimmed and toned up a slight bit). I have not hitched up to the Kimmie bandwagon- and won't be after seeing that uninspired performance. Boring music, lame choreography (the inclusion of the occasional ersatz Middle-Eastern arm and hand gestures was laughable), sub-par spins, spirals and footwork, no stage presence. I seem to be in a distinct minority here... and sure she has potential, but I'm not declaring her the American heir apparent just yet.

Did enjoy Rochette quite a bit- she put a real sense of excitement and drama into her program. Hope to see even better from her during the course of the season.

But really folks, this whole competition was uninspiring. Lots of dull music and choreography... can it be that it was early season jitters and that we'll see great improvement... or are these just poor programs? I was so thrilled that the season was beginning------- I just hope this isn't indicative of what we'll be seeing all season. I do have hope!

 

[millie]

THE BIGGEST LEMON OF ALL (despite my love of the skater & her program): SASHA's SPIT. Not a genteel little spit...but a big ole hockey-player style yuk. Next time, ABC can place a 'spitoon cam' by the boards!!! [/QUOTE]


I don't think that was a real so-called spit. She started to drink from her water bottle when Mr, Nicks told her not to drink to much water and she then spit it out. You could hear their conservation by the boards before she starting skating.

 

[pollyls]

Random Campbell's reactions

My crush on Ben Agosto gets worse each year. His Latin character is pretty darn hot.

I can see why Johnny wasn't pleased. That program seems to set him up for failure -- all his personality has been sucked out of it. It and the music make it look like he's skating one of Irina Slutskaya's old programs. I guess I'm with the rest who don't care for the music. But I like his costume.

The chacking of Tim & Michael really burns me up. I agree with those who said we didn't really need to see Emily Hughes' free skate. I would rather have traded her for one of those guys.

Sasha looks way more centered this year. I think she is reaching out to the audience more and her new program has lots of potential. Love the Russian split and the footwork and the spiral sequence! The jumps will come together, I'm sure of it.

I really liked Joannie Rochette's skate and I think Alissa Czisny will be very powerful this year too. I wish we could have seen Bebe Liang, and let Emily Hughes recover from her illness a bit more.

 

[R.D.]

Alrighty...My belated comments on the broadcast:

Alissa- Too bad she fell 4 times. I was pulling for her to do well, but it's only the beginning. But that aside, I thought she was OK.

Emily- I found "Hughes 2.0" pretty bland this time around. Not impressed.

Shizuka- My, my. Where's the PUNCH? She really slept through this one IMO. Very uninspiring. I thought Rochette was better, even. LOL at Dick's comment "If you were a world champion and you can't do THAT"

Joannie- She has potential this season, I really think she does. If she can pull it together, she might do good things for Canadian skating.

Kimmie- I'm not sure I agreed with the comment that it was a "slow" performance. (of course I wasn't there, so there's no real telling). She seemed pretty quick to me, at least in the beginning. It was sort of odd to see her so "grown up" so quickly. Makeup, costume, everything. I think she's a serious contender for that third Olympic spot if she can hold it together. (Hopefully they won't give her the "benefit of the doubt" if she messes up and someone else does well. :sheesh: )

Sasha- You know, I really think she is getting better. She no longer leaves me with that "cold" feeling. I actually saw some life in her this time, which is a good thing. That said, I still wasn't blown away by the performance. Still some work to do IMO to be a real hopeful for OLY gold. However, she seems to be stronger (i.e. she's able to hang on to jumps that she'd otherwise fall on), which could only work in her favor.

Interview at the end- Fine. But WTH was up with that question about Kwan? That question made absolutely NO sense to me and I'm glad she chose to sidetrack it. That was really loaded.

Things I liked:

I REALLY enjoyed being able to listen to coaches' comments. It's about time they did those "insider" pieces like they do for basketball games, football games, etc. where you can listen into what the coach is telling his players to do.

They showed all the ladies! (But not without chacking half of the men.)

Things I didn't care for:

The question that Carruthers asked Cohen about Kwan

Some of the gushing over Cohen that Peggy made (although that's just my little beef)

I didn't think we needed to see Cohen spitting out that water but in the big scheme of things, it's not half bad compared to other things I've seen

Anyway, just my two cents.

 

[jan]

Sashas stroking

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like yelling into the TV for her to push harder. Her highlight moves are outstanding but her stroking IMO is weak. It is almost as if she is waddling. Perhaps it is because she is so tiny but she doesn't fill the ice when she skates.

 

[dancindiva03]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like yelling into the TV for her to push harder. Her highlight moves are outstanding but her stroking IMO is weak. It is almost as if she is waddling. Perhaps it is because she is so tiny but she doesn't fill the ice when she skates.

I don't think it has anything to do with her being physically small, she just really does have very poor stroking and is quite slow for a skater at her level.

 

[bdreampixie]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like yelling into the TV for her to push harder. Her highlight moves are outstanding but her stroking IMO is weak. It is almost as if she is waddling. Perhaps it is because she is so tiny but she doesn't fill the ice when she skates.

I completely agree about her stroking. I am really puzzled by the scores that she's been receiving for skating skills on the PCS. Skating skills better than Kwan, and Arakawa? I don't think so. I would also give Kostner higher ss than Cohen.

You know, I've watched SC's performance to see this "difference" that some are saying they see, and I just don't see it. To me she looks weaker, and her jumps looked like they've always looked. Actually, to me her jumps started looking strong when she was with Robin, her flow and stroking looked better too. Now, back with Nicks is "same old, same old." But it's the first comp. of the season, things can change.

 

[gezando]

After recovering from the shock/ surprise of techno Chopin PC #1 without the piano, I think Arakawa's program has a lot of potential. If she skates up to potential, she will do well in olympics and world.

I am very impressed with Kimmie's overalll skating. I am disappointed with Lori's choice of music for Kimmie. Kimmie is too young for Belkis, Queen of Sheba.

.


STILL not impressed by Sasha's program. Too much arm flinging and "generic pretty arm movements" in place of real expression of the music,

I agree with the generic arm movement, and the piece of music is generic too.

I absolutely cannot tell the difference between her flip and her lutz,

Cohen approches her flip and flutz almost the same way.

the Biellman attempt was just bad,

I guess Cohen is trying the Biellman to be competitive with Irina

 

[R.D.]

I guess Cohen is trying the Biellman to be competitive with Irina

I personally think Irina's (and Shizuka's) are much better. But it was nice to see her try it, as I think there was a thread in the Edge (?) about this not too long ago.

 

[gezando]

I personally think Irina's (and Shizuka's) are much better. But it was nice to see her try it, as I think there was a thread in the Edge (?) about this not too long ago.

I am sure it was nice for you to see

From Campbell's competition, Arakawa and Alissa are better. I think Nam, and Rue have the best (headless) Biellman

 

[brinababy87]

I don't think it has anything to do with her being physically small, she just really does have very poor stroking and is quite slow for a skater at her level.

Haha, I actually thought it just looked like it took her less effort to go furthrer. Less laboring/scratching from her, I think.

 

[R.D.]

I am sure it was nice for you to see

Nice to see her try it. Personally, I don't like the move from her. (At least so far.)

 

[gezando]

Personally, I don't like the move from her. (At least so far.)

So what kind of move do you like from Cohen??

 

[R.D.]

So what kind of move do you like from Cohen??

Not one in particular...

 

[Vash01]

VASH RE POST #35:
After rewatching my tape and especially looking at Shizza and Joannie's performances, ITA with you. The greater difficulty on the jump entrances was, IMO, a major factor. Tarasova is terrific at choreographing these for her skaters. When Cohen was doing TT's versions of "Swan Lake," i.e., the black-&-white one, every one of her jump entrances had footwork or 3 turns into it. And the FW into the jumps wasn't just stroke-half-turn-stroke; they were tough. Shizza is 10 times the jumper Sasha was then and still is now, so now knowing Shizza had just come from a competition in Japan where she finished second to Irina, I'm chalking her lackluster and problematic performance to jet lag and fatigue.

Plus, as you say, it was a squeaker between Shizza and Joannie's point totals. Joannie has many wonderful qualities as a skater and if her coach and/or choreographer would toughen up her jump entrances, which I think would not be a problem for her considering what looked like strong jumping technique, I think Joannie's chances for finishing perhaps in the top five at Olys and/or Worlds (possibly a podium spot at Worlds, depending on who shows up) would be greatly improved.

Much as I enjoyed and admired Joannie's musical interpretation and overall flow, those qualities are not going to get her the points that Shizza's strengths will if both skate their A game. It's too bad Joannie didn't get the genes for more flexibility, extension, and amplitude on things such as her spins and spiral sequence, but life isn't fair. Irina doesn't have a ballet body either, but she got other things that make her the formidable skater she is and has been under both the OBO and COP judging systems.

As always, your analyses are insightful, right on the money, reflect a skater's understanding, and generally avoid fan favoritism or dislike of a skater. You are an overall figure skating analyzer's analyzer. I know I and I'm sure most other GSers look forward to your reviews of this season's competitions. Always, but especially during an Olympic year when fan fervor is high, it's important, IMO, to have the input of someone who both skates and can convey what good skating is verbally, and concisely, plus be unbiased--as much as humanly possible--in his reviews. Go Vash!

Rgirl

WOW! Rgirl, I am humbled by such high praise. Do I deserve it? I hope so. I will be gracious and accept the compliments.

I am really looking forward to the new season. It has been a long off season. We will have lots of interesting conversations, I am sure.

Thanks again.

Vash