Weird things afoot...

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think the problem does NOT lie (or is it lay?) with the athletes.

As an English teacher, I can assure you that the correct word is "lie". :yes:

Thank you dutchherder. I think it was in Julius Ceasar that Shakespear said that the fault does not lie in the stars but in our selves. Other than being a poor speller, my English got by in school. I did read the required books but lazy about learning to tell the difference between lay and lie. The fault lies with me.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

...That is, the competition going on is being held for its own sake and not as some kind of runner up for something else (especially if that something else only happens once every four years...)

I agree absolutely. This is the core of the matter in a single sentence.

But I am not hopeful. Specifically about the Olympics, I think figure skating will tie itself to this once Grand Dame until they just stop putting it on altogether.

But beyond that, the figure skating contests I love the most are -- well, the ones that I have gone to. But every time I write that I really enjoyed a good old cheesefest and thought that the competition was exciting and the programs memorable, the reaction seems to be, oh how silly, it's not the world championship.

The same with the discussions going on now in the Grand Prix folder. There seems to be a sentiment that, well, you can't predict the winner of the world championship by watching the Grand Prix, so therefore who cares about it? (Plus, it must be a stupid competition if Julia Sebestyen is in it.)

"The competition going on is being held for its own sake and not as some kind of runner up for something else."

 

[Vodka Shot]

Plenty of opinions, though, about who's number two in college football, Florida or Michigan.

That would be Florida!

I think one of the problems w/ the sport is they try to so damn hard to make it "completely" sport when it's not and never will be. There is nothing akin to football or basketball to someone half dressed as a zebra, or someone pretending to shoot a gun in a James Bond program etc. Figure skating is just as much art and show as it is sport. Why is it on ESPN anyway? LOL, it needs to be on channels like Bravo. The sport needs to accept what it is and market to the right demographic instead of trying desperately to get the average American to accept it as a sport. JMHO.

 

[Jaana]

Generally speaking I think that the GP-competitions are exciting, as it is skating. I have also enjoyed participating here on this forum in Gold Picks and on FSUniverse in predictions.

I enjoyed to watch GP-competitions every time it was possible (= online stream) or to follow commentary on skating forums. These single events are of course as a runner up for the GP final, but otherwise I don´t see other international competitions as a runner up for anything. Worlds are held every year and Olympics every fourth year. The previous Worlds is not a runner up for the Olympics. If there are several skaters that are serious contenders, the more exciting it gets in ANY competition.

There are skating fans that try not to get spoiled before an event gets broadcasted later. Personally I would not be so much interested to watch an event that already happened a week or two weeks ago. There is no excitement in that way, in my opinion. It does not matter whether one does not know results or not, anyway it has already happened.

 

[antmanb]

Nice to here that Ant. They should be among the many students interested in skating. But are they concerned about the next World Champion?

Joe

I think the little kids are - what happens with them is that they get hooked on the tv show and try skating, the little ones tend to advance quite quickly (being fearless about falling) before long they're landing the first few single jumps and skating onpatch sessions with the older kids who do have competition in their sights and before you know it they're landing doubles and working on the double axel! I've been skating at my rink for 3 years now and i've seen 5 kids go from tottering on the ice and trying out bunny hops to whipping off 2Lz/2Lp combinations and working out the funky edge change spins since they want to get the IJS down pat despite their competitive category being marked out of 6.0 still!

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

A successful sport needs unpredictability (too lacking in recent years), champions with personality, archetypes of competitors and a feeling of competition for the sake of competition. That is, the competition going on is being held for its own sake and not as some kind of runner up for something else (especially if that something else only happens once every four years and has been inconsistent in provisioning stars).

It is being held for its own sake and for those who love figure skating. It is for its own fans, but it does not have the popularity of Tennis, Golf, and Racing.except something to watch in the Olympics which requires a lot of fluff to bring up the understanding of the sport to those who heard it exists.

The question is not whether a fs fan is losing interest They aren't. The fact is it is being pushed aside by the media and declining in popularity. TV showed Cup of Russia Ladies as just the winner with no visuals of her competitors. Seems like what Mafke said is true that there is no unpredictability for the layman.

The question should be: can it be made more interesting for the layman so that it appears that there is a serious competition going on? Fluff pieces of skaters are not working to get the layman interested. They do work in the print media.

I'll be there for figure skating as it is, but my relatives wont be.

Joe

 

[Mafke]

It is for its own fans, but it does not have the popularity of Tennis, Golf, and Racing.except something to watch in the Olympics which requires a lot of fluff to bring up the understanding of the sport to those who heard it exists.

The question is not whether a fs fan is losing interest They aren't. The fact is it is being pushed aside by the media and declining in popularity.
I'll be there for figure skating as it is, but my relatives wont be.

Joe

Yeah, that's my point. The number of fans is decreasing (maybe these cheesy ice dance shows can respark interest). I'm barely a fan of modern skating myself. I'm finding programs from the 70's and 80's by skaters whose names I'd forgotten far more interesting than the latest COP induced monstrosities (I rather enjoyed recently watching Isabelle de Navarre's [who???] SP from 76 worlds where she doesn't do anything past a double axel).

Clarification, by personality I don't mean the kind of stuff that happens in fluff but competitive personalities, who are interesting in the way they compete. Both in performance and approach to other competitors whether being dismissive and aggressive towards rivals (Plushenko, Witt) or fragile mental game (Trenary IIRC rarely went through a major competition without almost breaking down at some point). Kwan's good sport control queen is intriguing but one is enough. The thing is that FS is so emotional to competitors and fans that that should be easy to exploit (Slutskaya's memorable post LP histrionics at SLC for instance). Slute doesn't need fluff pieces to make her memorable, just the right kind of exposure.

And (this is _crucial_) once on the ice the skating needs to be professional in demeanour. Vocal music, cheesy exhibitions with stripping and audience participation may be fun for those in attendance live, but they are D E A T H on tv. Skaters: you're not there to have a good time, but to remind us why you got invited to the exhibition in the first place. (but I have a low exhibition threshhold anyway).

And stop talking down to the audience. Shut up during the performances but during the warm ups, as skaters take the ice and especially during slow motion replays use all the technical jargon you can and point things out. People aren't put off by technical jargon, if it's explained well, they'll be intrigued and start looking things up for themselves (never easier than now)

 

[gio]

I'm really sad about this situation. I just can't understand how people can't like FS.

And (this is _crucial_) once on the ice the skating needs to be professional in demeanour. Vocal music, cheesy exhibitions with stripping and audience participation may be fun for those in attendance live, but they are D E A T H on tv. Skaters: you're not there to have a good time, but to remind us why you got invited to the exhibition in the first place. (but I have a low exhibition threshhold anyway).

I have another opinion. Unfortunately the majority of people today doesn't understand classical music or what a good choreoghraphed program means. A friend of mine said to me that she gets bored watching Worlds, because skaters use just classical music and are too serious. If exhibitions with audience partecipation, modern music and other excitments don't work, imagine what rankings will be if all skaters use LPs style programs for their exibitions.
We fans all enjoy watching well done skating programs. We like if a skater uses Mozart, Vivaldi or Tchaikovsky. But for what I've heard other people (occasional skating fans) wants modern music in skating programs. And wants to have fun.

 

[Spun Silver]

It would be interesting if changing styles became a requirement in singles skating. The TV dancing contests (both the ballroom show and the "so you think you can dance" show) have shown this is a popular approach.

E.g., short programs in mandatory rock/pop styles, and LP in classical, or vice versa, or some such variation of this.

What would be nice about this is:

* skaters would compete in the same style (e.g., everyone does a tango or everyone does pop) instead of this apples-and-oranges competition we have now

* skaters would be required to show their versatility by having to perform in more than one style

I think it could be worthwhile. And maybe then PC scores would have to represent something other than just a reinforcement of the technical scores.

 

[gio]

It would be interesting if changing styles became a requirement in singles skating. The TV dancing contests (both the ballroom show and the "so you think you can dance" show) have shown this is a popular approach.

E.g., short programs in mandatory rock/pop styles, and LP in classical, or vice versa, or some such variation of this.

What would be nice about this is:

* skaters would compete in the same style (e.g., everyone does a tango or everyone does pop) instead of this apples-and-oranges competition we have now

* skaters would be required to show their versatility by having to perform in more than one style

I think it could be worthwhile. And maybe then PC scores would have to represent something other than just a reinforcement of the technical scores.

Spun Silver, you had a GREAT IDEA!!!
Hope that ISU read that message!!!

 

[SeaniBu]

It would be interesting if changing styles became a requirement in singles skating. The TV dancing contests (both the ballroom show and the "so you think you can dance" show) have shown this is a popular approach.

E.g., short programs in mandatory rock/pop styles, and LP in classical, or vice versa, or some such variation of this.

What would be nice about this is:

* skaters would compete in the same style (e.g., everyone does a tango or everyone does pop) instead of this apples-and-oranges competition we have now...

I like the fact these ideas are coming up again.:agree:

 

[dutchherder]

It certainly makes it easier to compare the ice dance teams.:agree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It certainly makes it easier to compare the ice dance teams.:agree:

Yes, yes. It's kind of dumb to compare Prince Igor with Hooray for Hollywood. It would be nice if they switched the music for each couple.

Joe

 

[sk8addict]

Retirement?

I don't think that the USA saw a decline in Ladies. The beggining of this season was ufortunate for the USA, because 2006/2007 is a season of transition for this nation. After the retirement of Michelle and Sasha, the USA have plenty of young talents that can seriously destroy the Japanese supremacy in next years. And Kimmie Meissner can surprise us at Worlds in 2007, as she did last year.
I think that Russia is in a serious decline. I remember in 1999 and 2000 when there were Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Sokolova, Soldatova and Volchkova, all capable of placing in the top10 at Worlds. Now they have Sokolova and Martinova.
USA ladies were always strong after 1950. Just their opponents changed. In the 70s and in the 80s it was USA vs DDR (Seyfert, Errath, Potzsch and Witt). In the early 90s three Americans stood on the Worlds podium. Their rivals were Ito, Baiul and Chen.The years between 1998 and 2003 were 5 years of battles between USA girls and Russia girls (especially Kwan vs Slutskaya). But the Japanese were becoming every year stronger and stronger. Now it seems a Japanese (and 1 Korean) supremacy. But the USA will find their new weapons.

Has Michelle retired? Has Sasha Retired? I have not heard either of them use the "R" word?

 

[SeaniBu]

Has Michelle retired? Has Sasha Retired? I have not heard either of them use the "R" word?

For that matter I don't remember Sugar Ray Leonard saying the "r" word either. But he is.