What do judges see on their screens?

[Blades of Passion]

Downgraded jumps (<<): starting GOE can be no higher than +2 and the deduction is -3 to -4 - so if final GOE is higher than -1, this was the judge ignoring the rules.

Judges should ignore bad rules. The GOE rules for jumps are totally wrong, both the positive guideline bulletpoints and the handling of underrotations. A jump that is < or << does not deserve GOE penalty simply because it is underrotated. The jump has already received a base value penalty and needs to be assessed on its actual qualities. It makes no sense that someone who does 3Lutz+3Toe<< with an otherwise clean landing and good amplitude gets scored lower than someone who does a mediocre 3Lutz+2Toe. 3Toe<< generally has 1/2 turn more rotation than a 2Toe, it's more difficult, even if it's fair to downgrade it to the same value as a 2Toe.

 

[brblja]

If there are no other deductions and also no positive qualities, then the final GOE should still be -5.

Here's an example of a throw jump that certainly deserves the "very good height and distance" bullet and I don't see any other errors besides the fall:

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Yeah, I was talking about the potential for -3 if the jump was otherwise perfect = would get the +5 starting GOE from the positives. Obviously, that could happen only with everything else perfect, which would make it a very freaky fall. That's why I said I can't think of any jump I've seen to match that hypothetical scenario.

 

[gkelly]

Yeah, I was talking about the potential for -3 if the jump was otherwise perfect = would get the +5 starting GOE from the positives. Obviously, that could happen only with everything else perfect, which would make it a very freaky fall. That's why I said I can't think of any jump I've seen to match that hypothetical scenario.

It doesn't need to start at +5. It only needs (and in recent years is only allowed) to start at +2 before reductions for a serious error such as a fall. That's why the maximum final GOE for a jump element with a fall is -3. But it only takes two positive bullets to reach that +2 before the reduction. So it doesn't need to be perfect to earn -3. It just needs at least two positives that still exist despite the fall.
No, it doesn't happen often, but it can happen. And is memorable when it does.

And then it depends how many judges are brave enough to award -3 or -4 to an element with a fall.