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What do you want to see at Worlds ...Ladies
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
I think Yu-Na has no choice but to compete, if Korea wants to secure spots for the next Worlds. They cannot rely on Kwak Min-Jeong to do so - although she skated so much better at the Asian Games and the FCC, she had so much problems with her jumps this season.
Even if Yu-Na decided not to carry on next season, securing spots (3 if possible) must mean a lot for the future of figure skating in Korea.
I do hope she will carry on until Sochi though... she's a lovely, sublime skater already, but I also love certain qualities (interpretation and expression, subtlety only one's real life experiences can bring to ice) often seen in more mature skaters, which I would love to see more in her.
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- Joined
- Nov 3, 2006
Although I like Murakami, I guess I'm more a fan of her potential , at this stage. It would be deeply unsatisfying for me if ,through some combination of events , she should wind up on the podium this year. I'd like to see her acquire some polish first.I like Caro's programs very much this year. I'd love to see her put it all together and do really well. How well? I don't know, because I have a hard time what iff-ing here. Mao and Yuna will be there.. Mirai won't, Akiko won't, Laura won't..Miki's programs don't offend me this year , but they bore me...I don't like Rachael's programs ( too frantically flappy on EoE and SoTA is just..meh ; even the musical arrangement)..adore Alissa..but just don't know how to handicap the field without the big M and big Y.
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- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
She and her agency have made a big publicity in Korea out of her upcoming competition at Worlds. She has announced several times in the media in no uncertain terms that she will compete at Worlds. She had David Wilson choreograph both her programs, took on a new coach last summer and has trained several hours a day at the East-West ice rink since her last ice show in the fall.
She is already officially entered in the worlds roster as a direct competitor. Her agency said she will arrive in Tokyo on March 20th. How could anyone have any reasonable doubt as to whether she will actually show up?
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Yuna will be at Worlds, I'm sure, but I just don't think she will win. My guess is Miki wins, Yuna gets another silver or bronze and the remaining medal is a toss up between Mao, Carolina, Alissa, Kiira if they can hold it together or Rachael or Kanako if they can't.
Agreed on your list of top medal contenders
Did I see someone say Laura won't be there after all?
ETA: Oh, i just saw the Laura thread! Bummer.
If Kim does turn up, likewise I don't think she will win. Look at what happened to Cohen last year when she tried to qualify for the Olympics having not competed in a long time. Kim is one of the all time greats, but unless your competition fit, its a really tall order.
In my opinion, had Sasha avoided injury and skated the whole of the 2009/10 season, she would have qualified for the olympics. The grand prix events would have removed all of the rust as it were. Shame
Your point about Sasha is interesting. I wonder, however, how realistic it is for ladies over 25 years old to really be able to compete in Olympic level figure skating. I plead ignorance here, but it seems that some Olympic sports, especially gymnastics and figure skating, that require great flexibility cater to really young competitors these days.
Ha! Sasha is more flexible that practically every woman skater out there at 25. Still, she wasn't able to return to her prime last year. I was impressed with how close she got though. I'm actually not sure if she would have made the Olympics even if she had done the GPS. With Mirai and Rachael's skates, Sasha couldn't really afford to fall even once. And I still wish she had started her comeback earlier - like at least a year. But it's in the past. We'll never know the what ifs.
As for the age thing, Irina was 26 I think when she won the 2005 world championships and 27 when she was the Olympic bronze medalist. But she hadn't taken three years off competitive skating.
The olympic champions and there ages are as follows: 1908 Madge Sayers - 26 years 5 months, 1920 Magda Julin 25 years 7 months, 1924 Herma Szabo 22 years 0 months, 1928 Sonja Henie 15 years 10 months, 1932 Sonya Henie 19 years 10 months, 1936 Sonya Henie 23 years 10 months, 1948 Barbara-Ann Scott 19 years 9 months, 1952 Jeannette Altwegg 21 years 5 months, 1956 Tenley Albright 20 years 7 months, 1960 Carol Heiss 20 years 1 month, 1964 Sjoukje Dijkstra 22 years 1 month, 1968 Peggy Fleming 19 years 7 months, 1972 Beatrix Schuba 20 years 10 months, 1976 Dorothy Hamill 19 years 7 months, 1980 Anett Potzsch 19 years 8 months, 1984 Katarina Witt 18 years 2 months, 1988 Katarina Witt 22 years 2 months, 1992 Kristi Yamaguchi 20 years 7 months, 1994, Oksana Baiul 16 years 3 months 1998 Tara Lipinski 15 years 8 months, 2002 Sarah Hughes 16 years 9 months, 2006 Shizuka Arakawa 24 years 2 months, 2010 Kim Yu-Na 19 years 5 months.
You will note that only 2 skaters over the age of 25 have ever won the Olympic title - the very first two (Madge Sayers and Magda Julin) when figure skating was a completely different sport and far less athletic than it is today (with most of the marks being awarded for the old fashioned 'school figures' segment as they used to be called - hence, the name 'figure skating'). As time has gone by and as the sport has become far more athletic (with the school figure segment being dropped altogether), the age of the winners has fallen to the point where only 1 winner since the second world war has been over the age of 22 - Shizuka Arakawa in 2006 (24 years 2 months). Indeed, 3 consecutive winners between 1994 and 2002 were all 16 and under. Looking at the statistics, I think it safe to say that beyond the age of 22, its extremely difficult to win an olympic title - probably due to the inevitable accumulation of injuries and the reduced suppleness/flexibility of the body as you get older. As I pointed out the other day, given that, a skater only realistically has two shots at winning an Olympic title given these statistics, the age eligibility rules should reflect that by reducing them by a year to "turn 14 on 1st July the previous year" instead of 15. Because of the rules, Mao Asada was unable to compete at the Olympics in 2006 and that left her with only 1 realistic chance at winning the Olympic title - which was unfair. She will find it very difficult to win 2014 when she will be 23 years 5 months old. As Michelle Kwan found to her cost when she tried to have one last shot at the Olympic title in 2006 at the age of 25, she could well find that she is unable to compete due to injury. Unfortunately, in figure skating, the older you are the more likely you are to be injured. That's why what happened to Mao was so unfair.
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Shizuka might have had a fair chance even if she had been over 25 in 2006. This is a clip from this summer, her practising for ice show performance. She was 28 then and still managed 3Lz-3Lo, and her bielman position has improved since her competitive days, I reckon. Also she has grown as a truly artistic skater since her gold medal 5 years ago - that could have been an advantage she'd had over younger skaters in PCS.
So there's hope that there might be someone like her in the future, and why that cannot be Mao?
Shizuka Arakawa 3Lz-3Lo
and
her Yugao programme performed last October
(she hasn't lost any of her flexibility, looking at her signature layback inabauer too.)
So there's hope that there might be someone like her in the future, and why that cannot be Mao?
Shizuka Arakawa 3Lz-3Lo
and
her Yugao programme performed last October
(she hasn't lost any of her flexibility, looking at her signature layback inabauer too.)
Thanks Oksanafan for your excellent and informative post. It seems that for ladies figure skaters, most will only get one shot at an Olympic medal, namely when they are 18 to 22 years of age (unless like Katerina the Olympics coincide with both those ages). However, for both Mao and Yu-Na another shot at an Olympic medal is not out of the question, 23 years old is borderline but doable. Clearly, the problem is NOT making the Sochi team, both Mao and Yu-Na should be able to do that, but rather besting the field for a medal.
I didn't realize we were strictly talking about Sasha's chances of winning Olympic gold last year. I thought the discussion was about her making the team. If she had managed her comeback better I think she could have made the team and performed well enough at the Olympics. But I would have considered her a long shot for the podium, maybe an outside medal contender. The way things actually played out, no way would she have beat Yuna and Mao probably not Joannie, even if she had been perfect. Or Mirai for that matter. Well... MAYBE if she had been PERFECT she would have edged out Mirai and Joannie but I'm talking perfect.
It does seem that 17-22 is the prime age for women. But if you look beyond the Olympic gold medal list there more success stories of women in their mid 20s.
It does seem that 17-22 is the prime age for women. But if you look beyond the Olympic gold medal list there more success stories of women in their mid 20s.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
If Sasha was serious about any kind of comeback she should have come back in the 08-09 season and skated at the 2009 Nationals and possibly (probably given the skating at the 2009 Nationals) Worlds. She probably could have helped the U.S to 3 spots given Flatt's solid showing at Worlds. And she would have been much more competition ready and fit. Even if she still got injured and missed the 09 fall, and as it is she probably wouldnt have felt rushed to get back in top technical shape and gotten injured so badly in the first place.
One thing I think Cohen forget and was a bit delusional about was the technical level of womens skating was light years beyond what it had been when she left in 2006. Her silver medal skate at the 2006 Olmypics wouldnt have even made top 5 in Vancouver probably. So if she was a realist and at all smart she would have come back realizing she had to be a better skater than ever, atleast from a technical standpoint, and the only way to do that was to start preparing for her comeback atleast 2 years out from the Games.
25 isnt neccessarily too old. However when you come back in the Olympic season itself after 3.5 years just focusing on Stars on Ice, and are a suspect technical skater who contended but without winning a major title in what was a previously weak period of womens skating and are trying to come back in a much stronger one, then in that case yes 25 does become a bit too old.
One thing I think Cohen forget and was a bit delusional about was the technical level of womens skating was light years beyond what it had been when she left in 2006. Her silver medal skate at the 2006 Olmypics wouldnt have even made top 5 in Vancouver probably. So if she was a realist and at all smart she would have come back realizing she had to be a better skater than ever, atleast from a technical standpoint, and the only way to do that was to start preparing for her comeback atleast 2 years out from the Games.
25 isnt neccessarily too old. However when you come back in the Olympic season itself after 3.5 years just focusing on Stars on Ice, and are a suspect technical skater who contended but without winning a major title in what was a previously weak period of womens skating and are trying to come back in a much stronger one, then in that case yes 25 does become a bit too old.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
Well I am saying she had to come back for the 08-09 season if she was even going to have a good shot at making the team. Remember she skated about the best short program she could have at Nationals and still came in 2nd behind Nagasu and virtually tied with Flatt. Given that her long programs are always going to be worse than her shorts you could tell right then and there she wasnt making it. So to be at the level to even make the 2010 U.S Olympic team she would have had to come back earlier, to get her skating, endurance, strength, and technical especialy in jumping, to that point IMO.
Yeah some skaters who are unusual late bloomers find success in their mid 20s. However they are the vast minority, one shouldnt assume without there being evidence for that particular skater one is "likely" to be in their amateur prime at that age, unless shown otherwise.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
No offense to Shizuka, she was the best thing about the 06 Olympics but she was lucky to win that one much less another one. She did a great job at the Olympics but she didn't exactly put her name in the books like some of the other ladies.
