What is a (Ukrainian) "ship" spiral?

[Diana Delafield]

Lately, @Walt FSHunter has been posting an interesting series of translated articles from Ukrainian newspapers circa 1981, discussing the start of a new Olympic cycle leading up to Sarajevo 1984. There was one term today that baffles translation, a reference to spirals and "ships". Apparently "ships" (or "boats") refers to a specific type of spiral, but neither of us can think what. The only specifically named spiral I can think of is the Charlotte. Surely it isn't that, unless it describes the Titanic going down ? Anyone familiar with terminology used in that part of the world in the early 1980s?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Lately, @Walt FSHunter has been posting an interesting series of translated articles from Ukrainian newspapers circa 1981, discussing the start of a new Olympic cycle leading up to Sarajevo 1984. There was one term today that baffles translation, a reference to spirals and "ships". Apparently "ships" (or "boats") refers to a specific type of spiral, but neither of us can think what. The only specifically named spiral I can think of is the Charlotte. Surely it isn't that, unless it describes the Titanic going down ? Anyone familiar with terminology used in that part of the world in the early 1980s?

Could it possibly be a bad translation and mean something like hip spiral?

 

[Diana Delafield]

Could it possibly be a bad translation and mean something like hip spiral?

I didn't read the article in the original Ukrainian, so all I have is the translation. @Walt FSHunter might know, but he says Google Translate was no help -- surprise, surprise . There was another term in a previous article, libela, which turned out to be the name for a camel spin in Slavic countries (c1981, anyway). But that I found was also the word for a carpenter's level, which made a logical picture of the position of a camel spin. We can't think of any spiral position that looks like any kind of boat.

It just occurred to me that possibly someone thought an arabesque position looked a bit like a Viking-type ship with the raised prow. But that's reaching pretty far.

 

[Walt FSHunter]

Finally I have found what a ship means. It is a spread eagle. Here is the definition provided by AI. The spread eagle (korablyk in Ukrainian) in figure skating is an element that involves skating on two skates, heels together, on the inside or outside edges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxUgiyBSPO0

 

[Diana Delafield]

Finally I have found what a ship means. It is a spread eagle. Here is the definition provided by AI. The spread eagle (korablyk in Ukrainian) in figure skating is an element that involves skating on two skates, heels together, on the inside or outside edges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxUgiyBSPO0

 

[Query]

Wow! She has such great balance, when she leans so far back, before her back touches the ice. I see she does it partly by keeping her center of gravity over the blades as long as she can. Beautiful and graceful.

In spite of the sometimes humorous results that Google translate provides (take a passage in your best language, translate it to something else, then translate back - fun results), I sometimes wish they had an auto-translate option on Youtube videos.

 

[NanaPat]

I sometimes wish they had an auto-translate option on Youtube videos.

I believe they do for some videos. If it's available, it's a language choice under the "CC" (closed caption) button.

 

[Query]

I believe they do for some videos. If it's available, it's a language choice under the "CC" (closed caption) button.

You are right. Including this video! Thanks for pointing that out. Now I can just wish for more confidence in the translations, but I can't have everything.


Incidentally, when the coach (or whatever the guy narrating the video is) demonstrates stretching to place his feet at 180 degree angle, with his back against the wall, notice that he appears to be pushing a significant twist through his knee areas, though it is a little hard to tell, because he wears loose jeans. (But they are tight against his upper leg area - where you can see that his legs do not twist that much out of his hips alone, which I was told is safer.) I was taught that is a dangerous way to stretch - that it could cause long term knee stability problems.

Would you folks consider that type of stretching appropriate for figure skating? I used to do it often before I was told not to.

 

[Diana Delafield]

You are right. Including this video! Thanks for pointing that out. Now I can just wish for more confidence in the translations, but I can't have everything.


Incidentally, when the coach (or whatever the guy narrating the video is) demonstrates stretching to place his feet at 180 degree angle, with his back against the wall, notice that he appears to be pushing a significant twist through his knee areas, though it is a little hard to tell, because he wears loose jeans. (But they are tight against his upper leg area - where you can see that his legs do not twist that much out of his hips alone, which I was told is safer.) I was taught that is a dangerous way to stretch - that it could cause long term knee stability problems.

Would you folks consider that type of stretching appropriate for figure skating? I used to do it often before I was told not to.

If you wanted to improve your turnout, you'd be better off and safer taking an adult beginner ballet class. Many community centres offer inexpensive dance classes for people with no experience at all, and better-trained teachers than a youtube video. Men are always welcome in those classes.

 

[Query]

I did, long ago. I was so far from having the flexibility and strength that all or most of the people had that I didn't take another.

I took a 25 (?) hour short course for people who wished to become certified group exercise instructors, which included some stretching. And a university class on injury prevention for (mostly ballet) dancers, which emphasized the dangers more than the techniques of stretching - though it was aimed at people with a very different background, anatomy and physiology than me. And an introductory class for people interested in becoming Certified Physical Trainers (ATCs), which among other things covered effective methods - and dangers - of stretching. The classes helped me to understand that not everyone can safely reach that degree of flexibility. I can't.

I've taken modern dance classes, which included stretching. Private skating coaches also gave me stretching exercises - including those in that video. And Yoga and other stretch classes. They help a little. I've even tried to do inside spread eagles.

I cannot become a great figure skater, but I treat it as an exercise.

And I can still appreciate graceful skating, like the lady in the video. It's beautiful. I wish I could do it.

 

[NanaPat]

I did, long ago. I was so far from having the flexibility and strength that all or most of the people had that I didn't take another.

Don't reject it out of hand based on one class taken long ago. Not all classes are the same, either on paper or in real life.

If you can find a class that looks good "on paper" you can contact the instructor to see if it is right for you. I take a class that has occasional visitors who are attending to see if it is right for them. Some start right up at the next class, while others are never seen again. Some find the class too challenging, some find it not challenging enough.

Also, classes are not a competition. It's OK to be the weakest in the class (somebody has to do it) as long as the instructor pays attention to you and modifies the exercises, if necessary, to prevent injury and allow you to work up to the full exercise. On the other hand, if the instructor ignores everyone but the "stars", then run the other way. But don't run too far; look for another class/instructor that suits you better.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Don't reject it out of hand based on one class taken long ago. Not all classes are the same, either on paper or in real life.

If you can find a class that looks good "on paper" you can contact the instructor to see if it is right for you. I take a class that has occasional visitors who are attending to see if it is right for them. Some start right up at the next class, while others are never seen again. Some find the class too challenging, some find it not challenging enough.

Also, classes are not a competition. It's OK to be the weakest in the class (somebody has to do it) as long as the instructor pays attention to you and modifies the exercises, if necessary, to prevent injury and allow you to work up to the full exercise. On the other hand, if the instructor ignores everyone but the "stars", then run the other way. But don't run too far; look for another class/instructor that suits you better.

Exactly, that's why I specifically suggested an adult beginners class. Usually they're a night school offering in a community centre.

The drop-in class I take is offered by a school that is a pre-preparatory academy for professional dancers. Teenagers will often join in to get some extra barre time. They're so far above the rest of us in ability, but we all moan and complain together . There are all levels represented, and we have teenage boys and older men in the mix. No one is ignored. I've never once seen the slightest suggestion, from instructors or other students, that the oldest, stiffest of us are taking up valuable space.

 

[Query]

I'll look into it.

The same things I have trouble with in dance are true about skating too. I just ignore it because a lot of adults and some kids are not at all graceful, and have trouble balancing, on the ice.

Maybe I did find the wrong ballet group lessons. And maybe I was too self-conscious. It's not like there is a shortage of dance studios in metro DC/Annapolis/Baltimore area.