What rule changes would you like to see next season?

[MCsAngel2]

Oh yeah - here's a different one. Require venues hosting ISU events to meet a standard ice temperature that is appropriate for figure skating (which is especially important for venues that normally host ice hockey games). Both Skate America and Skate Canada had parts of their competitions affected by ice that was too cold/too hard, resulting in splatfests for the men, in particular.

 

[karne]

TBH...I almost think we should go back to 6.0.

There's so much arguing over the scores, especially between competitions. The IJS was meant to be quantitive where skaters are not compared to each other but rather the notion of a perfect jump, spin, step sequence etc. But lets face it, the judges DO compare skaters in competition, it's why PCS and GOE is so wonky.

How many times do you hear people say "The placements are right, but the scores aren't."?

6.0 was at least honest in saying it's a comparison between skaters at a particular competition.

Or at the very least revamp PCS and drum it into the judges that it's entirety possible to get a 5 in transitions and a 10 in performance.

As a judge with experience in using 6.0, this is pure ignorance.

If you want a scoring system that is completely arbitrary, with no proper usage, based almost entirely on the judge's feelings, completely open to misuse and abuse, by all means we can go back to 6.0. I suspect in practice you won't like it though.

The real issue is the number of 6.0-trained judges that are still judging and using the IJS in a 6.0 fashion.

Also, has 4A been assigned a BV yet? Because Hanyu says he's going to try one at NHK.

The 4A has had a base value for several years now. It's 12.50.

 

[Minz]

Allow a quad in the short, but only one quad OR one 3A, not both.

That just doesn't make any sense. If women can jump quads and triple axels, why shouldn't they be able to? The men can, so why not the women?

The women are in a bit of a transitional phase, but soon it will even out (for the most part), just like it did for the men not too many years ago.

 

[zebobes]

Practically speaking, the ISU needs to do research and planning on the effects quints will have in the future, as men and women have almost maxed out the current jumps, with only the quad axel left to be unlocked. What would be a reasonable BV be? I wouldn't be a fan of a single element being worth almost 20 points by itself, but if the quad axel is 12.5, then a quint toe should start around 14 or 15, right?

 

[alexocfp]

I've got another, once they're done they can sprint around the rink. Every lap after the maximum time before the skater passes out from exhaustion is a point. #stamina.

Hmm, short track speed skating right after figure skating. Why not? ISU sanctions both sports so it can work. Haha

 

[4everchan]

Dance :
CHOR elements should not be used to give GOE like candy to your faves... this needs fixing.
Lifts : add levels or make level 4 special and difficult to reach...

Pairs : bring back real scoring on quads

Women : quads in short
as TES has increased a lot, marks PCS at 100% not 80% and do it properly

Men :
Combos need to have at least two triple jumps...making the doubles count as invalid.

Team event : in the free make the points 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 instead of 10-9-8-7-6 to give as much weight to skaters doing the free versus those doing the short
In general : raise levels for spins and steps to reward properly specialists in this discipline.

In singles : bring back figures : best figures will not count towards points but will decide skating order.

Music : ban lip synching on the lyrics.. actually ban lyrics again.

Judging : split GOE and PCS. No judges from the final flight skaters in the Free

 

[Allikat]

I'd like to see judges stop their 'corridor marks' in PCS so that if a skater excels in PE, IN and CO, he/she might receive, say, 9.00 to 9.75 on those, but if they basically lack much in the way of TR, a fair score of 6.5 - 7.0 could be given there. For SS, to me this has little to do with jumping and everything to do with edgework, turns, and speed. If SS is a skater's best 'thing' but they lack a bit in some of the others, why can they not receive something like 9 to 9.5 in SS, 6.25 - 7.25 on 'lesser' TR, and maybe 7.75 to 8.25 on PE, IN, and CO, if those points reflect what lthe judges see? Apparently judges aren't allowed to legally do this, as it now stands--why not?

Also--it's high time to move the factoring in men's PCS from 1.0 to 1.2, and women's PCS factoring from .80 to 1.0. This would enable PCS to be 'broadened' such that say, 5's would be 'decently average', 6's would be nothing to be ashamed of, 7's would be quite a nice score, 8's much rarer, and 9's perhaps once in a competition or not at all. We wouldn't see any 10s unless judges felt they witnessed truly 'the skate of the decade'. Because the current system is not broad enough, we constantly see totally squashed together, rather meaningless PCS.

I agree that women should be allowed to jump ONE quad in technical programs instead of a triple, but only for the solo jump, remembering that underrotated quads can be severely downgraded. A triple Axel can be jumped as well as a quad, if desired. Guess I'd limit the combo to a triple/triple (or triple/double if that is the best one can do). At this point, I see no reason whatsoever not to use the same rules for Junior women as for Seniors. Either a double or triple Axel plus either a triple or quad jump of specified 'type', plus a combo of a triple/triple or triple/double.

Other than this, I very much agree with those posters advocating for both a level 5 in spins and step sequences (and lifts in Pairs), higher levels of difficulty between the levels rewarded with more points, and levels being added to the choreographic sequence. Why not levels 1 through 5 for that, as well? Also, what about TWO 'shorter' step sequences instead of just one L-O-N-G one, at least in the FS? Place one in the first half of the program, one in the second, and make each of a different format and shape? Choreo sequence could still go in either portion of the program; the more nicely held-out 'fancy' elements (spirals, hydroblades, Ina Bauers, Charlottes, cantilevers, split jumps, twizzles, etc), the higher the level received.

I'd like to see the age moved up at least one year, maybe 2. Either way, I'd like to see Dec 31/Jan 1 be used as the transition age rather than June 30/July 1. Since the season begins July 1, anyone having the necessary birthday on or before Jan 1 would be allowed to skate as a senior in the summer, autumn, and early winter competitions preceding Jan 1 of a given season. (That would technically mean the age would actually only be moved up 1/2 to 1 and 1/2 years, thereby allowing skaters to be the 'correct' age for Europeans, 4 Continents, Olympics, and Worlds without forcing them to 'wait a whole extra year or whole extra quad' because they were born a few days or weeks 'too late in the year'.

Ahh--so much wishful thinking!

 

[Joekaz]

Eliminate the q, +1-1 GOE, greatly compress the range of PCS given, eliminate SS and TR from PCS(they are already covered in TES and GOE). These steps will reduce judging influence a little,which is always a good thing. GOE and PCS should be tiebreakers for 2 roughly equal performances. Not to be a way to make up for errors or lack of tech content.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

CHOR elements should not be used to give GOE like candy to your faves... this needs fixing.

100% agreed! Personally, I'd eliminate one choreo element and put back in another step sequence, but this might not make watching as exciting or understandable for those not so hardcore fans of ice dance/figure skating in general.

Also, levels in dance need bigger point gaps between them so that the GOE cannot be used as heavily to compensate for lower tech levels.

As an example, IdF 2019 RD:
C/B get Level 1 (1KP) on their Finnstep. BV: 5.35, GOE: 2.18, Total for element: 7.53.
G/F get Level 4 (all KPs) on their Finnstep. BV: 7.35, GOE: 1.49, Total for element: 8.84.

3 Levels difference in Finnstep performance, only 2 points difference in BV and, with the GOE, points difference becomes: 1.31 points.

 

[Minz]

Also, ban announcers from using ISU bios as introductions for the skaters and give announcers a sheet with the proper countries and name pronunciations.

After the commentary/announcing mess of Skate Canada, it makes me wonder how some of these announcers are chosen….

 

[yume]

Dear ISU, these are my propositions:

- The bonus for the jumps: Now elements order are so similar that it's boring. Two jumps in SP and four in the FS would be better.

- in singles, let the technical program really be technical. First, keep 3 jumping passes and allow any jump so skaters will attempt their best and highest scoring jumping passes. If we see all quads programs, it isn't bad. Skaters like Trusova would really enjoy themselves and it will be a real show. Keep 3 spins but make some difficult entries mandatory and raise de GOE. The same step sequence for everyone. Yes, compulsory steps. That would make it easier to judges the SS. Bring back the spiral sequence.
The only PCS would be SS and PE.

 

[surimi]

I want the ISU to:
- allow quads in Women's SP
- do away with the mandatory solo SP jump in juniors, so that juniors aren't doomed if they fall on their combo's first jump
- as someone here suggested, I want to see a bigger point difference between spin levels. Also, seeing slow, wonky, labored spins with +GOE is such an eyesore for me. It's high time to reward good flexibility and speed in spins more.

 

[ruga]

1. Different panels for TES and PCS, at least for big events. Major competitions have 13 judges + 3 tech controllers so 8+8 or 9+7 would easily work. TES panel should be both controllers and award GOEs - this would solve the problem of 3 person panel being too small for such important decisions.

2. GOEs should be awarded by checking the bullet points, and only the bullet points that got selected by 50% of the judges are awarded. For example, if 7/9 judges thought that jump got good height, the element gets +1 GOE and so on. This can only be done if panels are separated, as it is a lot of work.

3. Eased up Zagitova rule: now all skaters have 4+3 layout. The jump limit is needed, but it should be something that not everyone could do, for example, 2+5.

4. Bigger value for 4A and defined values for quints. Technical advancements should be encouraged, especially for the future.

5. Something should be done about national biases. If a judge is constantly giving higher scores to skaters from their country, they should be suspended. Nowadays, it's just isolated cases which weren't really influential, like the Georgian judge earlier this year.

6. Bigger base values or GOE scales for spins and sequences. It's really not fair how most of TES is constituted by jumps.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Return to the 4 and 1/2 minute LP for pairs. I've gotten used to the 4 minute LP for men but the pairs need that extra time to make their programs unique and less cookie cutter like most of the other pairs.

 

[MiraiFan]

Invalidate combos that have an obvious change of edge between the two jumps. Pretty please!

 

[cathlen]

Literally I don't get why this wasn't there in the first place. IMO the requirements should be the same for ladies and mens.

Yes. And scoring also should be the same. Meaning: Women PCS should have the same factor as Men. Also, their programs should have the same amount of time. Pretending Men are oh so better at Tech so they deserve higher PCS is kind of ridiculous. And I would give more value to Death Spirals, it really is difficult.

 

[macy]

I'd like to see judges stop their 'corridor marks' in PCS so that if a skater excels in PE, IN and CO, he/she might receive, say, 9.00 to 9.75 on those, but if they basically lack much in the way of TR, a fair score of 6.5 - 7.0 could be given there. For SS, to me this has little to do with jumping and everything to do with edgework, turns, and speed. If SS is a skater's best 'thing' but they lack a bit in some of the others, why can they not receive something like 9 to 9.5 in SS, 6.25 - 7.25 on 'lesser' TR, and maybe 7.75 to 8.25 on PE, IN, and CO, if those points reflect what lthe judges see? Apparently judges aren't allowed to legally do this, as it now stands--why not?

Also--it's high time to move the factoring in men's PCS from 1.0 to 1.2, and women's PCS factoring from .80 to 1.0. This would enable PCS to be 'broadened' such that say, 5's would be 'decently average', 6's would be nothing to be ashamed of, 7's would be quite a nice score, 8's much rarer, and 9's perhaps once in a competition or not at all. We wouldn't see any 10s unless judges felt they witnessed truly 'the skate of the decade'. Because the current system is not broad enough, we constantly see totally squashed together, rather meaningless PCS.

several years ago PCS used to be marked similar to this. top skaters were in the 7-8 range, 9s and 10s were rare.

what changed so that now everyone is getting 8s-10s for skates that are nowhere near that level? give skaters some incentive to actually be a 9 or a 10.

 

[ramurphy2005]

several years ago PCS used to be marked similar to this. top skaters were in the 7-8 range, 9s and 10s were rare.

what changed so that now everyone is getting 8s-10s for skates that are nowhere near that level? give skaters some incentive to actually be a 9 or a 10.

I think some of it is to keep scores relatively equal in terms of TES and PCS. When this system was conceived, I don't think any one thought we'd be seeing skates with 5 or 6 quads. I don't think this is the whole reason, but a contributing factor.

 

[treblemakerem]

I would like to see spins and steps be worth more points but harder to get levels. I want to see the exceptional people rewarded. Right now everyone just gets level 4s. GOE is not enough distinction.
Now that women are doing quads, PCS scoring should change to how it is in men’s.

 

[lariko]

After every Olympic cycle there seem to be some rule changes. What changes to you think are going to happen?

I expect more definitions on jumps and rotations. But I am torn about this. One of the things I don't like is when I see a good skate, and then when the scores come up the tech has magically gone down with 10 points. This is not audience friendly and the ISU should know this. It is in the ISU's interest to make this sport more popular and that includes making it understandable for the audience. I have watched several competitions with "non"-FS fans and they are just confused when this happens. And it is safe to say they lost their interest immediately because it is too complicated. Maybe a simple solution is that whenever there is a questionmark on an edge or UR this shows in the scorebox? And the tech goes down with it? I've seen national Russian competitions where they already are doing this. It would be much better if we have increased scores instead, if the tech panel after reviewing changes their mind.

Step Sequences:
I really hope there will be some change in the basics here. Now, you have certain turns and things to do to get a level 4. But imo it kills the creativeness of step seq's and it makes them look generic and boring. Gone are the days when you can just go full crazy with your steps, it used to be a crowd pleasing moment.
Instead I want a more difficulty based level system, and then you can judge the steps and turns in the GOEs.

Spins:
Same here with spins. I want a change in the basics here. There is a lot of slow, simple, ugly, awfully done spins out there that gets level 4, just because they hold a position for X turns. And then they get +GOE as well! Again, it kills the creativity imo. I remember the mother of all spins, Lucinda Ruh, who used to have some variations where she constantly changed position in a wonderful way. That would never get level 4 now.

I would like not so much the scoring for the step sequence to change, but just some sort of an explanation of its obligatory technical components. Perhaps, in the SP, they could, like in RD specify one element that must make it in each year or something.

In terms of scoring, I want to drop coefficient from the man skating PCS.

I want 3A allowed in junior women’s SPs and quads—in senior women SPs.

Basically, the same set of rules for men and women and the same scoring.