What's a "Detroiter"

[mathman444]

What's a "Detroiter"

I just read a reference (in my new favorite book, LOL) to a pairs move called a Detroiter. What exactly is this? Why is it illegal in competitive skating?

More generally, what is the criterion and rationale for outlawing various moves, such as adagio lifts, and, in singles, back flips?

Mathman

 

[mpal2]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

I *think* the detroiter starts as a two-handed lift and ends up in a one-handed lift. The man is basically doing a spin while holding on to the lady's thigh and shoulder. When he generates enough force, he lets go of her shoulder.

I don't know why these moves are illegal though. I like them just fine.

 

[Grgranny]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

It's the one where he (I think) has hold of her ankle. Anyway, I know for sure it's the one where her head almost hits the ice. I can see why it's illegal. Looks really dangerous and he has to be really careful she doesn't hit the ice. I could be wrong.

 

[nymkfan51]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Grgranny, that's what I thought it was. The guy has the lady by the ankles and swings her up in the air and then down almost touching the ice. I'm sure the reason it is not allowed is because it is extremely dangerous.
Brasseur and Eisler did it all the time on COI ... and it looks soooooo scary!!!

 

[Pookie]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Here is a picture of the Detroiter.

<a href="http://www.skate.org/h+l/h+l-detroiter.gif" target="top">www.skate.org/h+l/h+l-detroiter.gif</a>

He spins her very fast and the momentum, I guess, keeps her horizontal. I don't know why these moves are illegal, either. I'm sure someone with a lot more skating knowledge than me will answer that question.

 

[heyang]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

I think GrGranny is referring to the 'headbanger'. It's used a lot in adagio skating.

 

[nymkfan51]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Thanks pookie and heyang ... now I remember.
The "headbanger" ... DUH!!!

 

[Lucy25]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

I have always wondered why they call that move a Detroiter. I am from that area and can't figure out why it's called that. Maybe because they are spinning like a wheel?

 

[lunarpool]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Hi are adagio moves otherwise known as "tricks" in pairs skating?thanks.

 

[mathman444]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Thanks for all the feedback, everybody. Thanks for the description, mpal, and to Pookie for the picture. That does seem like a cool move, and not any more dangerous than all the other things that pairs skaters do.

Here's a picture of Brasseur and Eisler doing a headbanger, from a fan site. I don't like this move at all. It looks like it's just "dangerous for the sake of danger." Although I think that they position it so that if the lady does actually hit the ice, she hits with her chest or shoulder first.

www.skate.org/b+e/b+e-headbanger.gif

That's a good question, Lucy, about the history of the move and what it has to do with Detroit. I haven't found any information about that yet.

Lunarpool (that's a name that's full of Karma, BTW ), welcome to the forum. I would like to add on to your question and ask, why is this trick skating called "adagio" in the first place. As far as I know, adagio just means slow music (?) Are any of our ice historians on the board today?

Mathman

Mathman

 

[Joesitz]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Mathman - Those moves go way back in time to the Hollywood Ice Revue, and of course, Ice Capades. They were banned way back then in competitive pairs. In fact, if anyone remembers, any kind of a 'carried' lift was banned, too.

I guess everything old is new again.

Joe

 

[sk8m8]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

My best guess about a Detroiter lift is that is must have been named for the once famous propeller plane, the Stinson SM-1FS "Detroiter". It is when the man holds the woman directly over his head and basically does a forward or backward scratch spin. A "one-armed Detroiter" is when there is enough centrfugal force to sustain the woman's lateral position while the man holds here with one arm and lets the other arm down.
I used to love H&Z's version of this move in the "good old pro competition days, though B&E of Canada have made it part of thier trademark performance moves on tour.

 

[Norlite1]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

It's always been my understanding that these type of lifts "adagio lifts" are illegal in eligible competition because the man is stationary (on one spot, I know he is spinning) during there execution. During a lift, the man must be skating, covering as much ice as possible, while turning or rotating. If the man is not rotating, it is called a carry lift. There use to be only one carry lift allowed in the FS, I'm not sure if that is still the rule.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

The woman is lying horizontally in the air, while the man holds her flat and spins around as fast as possible. Frankly, I think this is a very dangerous move, and I believe it's illegal in the eligible ranks. Some of the professional pair teams have made a lot of use of this move, particularly when the man is well built and the woman is tiny and petite.

I sure wouldn't try the Detroiter, under any circumstances!!

 

[Ladskater]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Lloyd Eisler and Isabelle Brassuer 's signature moves are the Detroiter and the head-banger both equally dangerous moves as well. Isabelle is "fearless."

"Their goal from the beginning was and is to please and entertain the audience, at which they have no peers. Each are strong individual skaters, and their dynamic, high-flying, original and dangerous moves delight and thrill sold-out arenas around the world. They push each of their unexpected and creative moves to the edge and are two of the most popular entertainers on ice. The "head-banger," and the one-handed overhead "Detroiter" spin, and the amazing "Headstand lift" are signature moves giving each performance a special excitement and electricity."


I tried to find a picture of them doing the detroiter, but could not. Here is a great picture of them though.

<img src="http://www.skatecanada.ca/photos/hofgallery/1_2.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

 

[berthes ghost]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Here's a picture:

www242.pair.com/amossman/...8-1-6a.jpg

 

[berthes ghost]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

B&S were always a little too showy for my taste. The one instance that I can think of where a dangerous move just looked absolutely beautiful to me was the headbangeresque drop out of Meno and Sand's stag lift.

www.ualberta.ca/~droles/s...noSand.jpg

 

[mathman444]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Oh, I hate that headfirst drop thing, Berthe's Ghost. My heart is in my throat when they do it. I just know he's going to drop her on her head on of these days. I think Lang and Tcernachev have a similar move (?)

Mathman

 

[tdnuva]

Re: What's a "Detroiter"

Mathman, perhaps you can help me then...

You ever saw that cartwheel T&D did several times? I think they used it first in their Rock'n roll OSP for 1983 Worlds. Jayne did a cartwheel behind Chris' back in the way that they held each other by the hands, so she really made a whole circle around his back being kind of the middle point. The commentator (I think Simon Reed) I have on tape mentions that at least one other team tried to do it and the lady ended up on her head. Have you (or anyone else) ever heard of that and might know who that was??