When was the last time a U.S. lady did 7 triples in 7 passes in her Nationals LP?

[Mathman]

When was the last time a U.S. lady did 7 triples in 7 passes in her Nationals LP?

This question was raised in another htread by FlattFan. Does anyone know for sure?

I am pretty sure that Michelle Kwan never did, and that no one since her did it either. Did Tara in 1997? Kristi?

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I think Michelle did 7 in 7 in 1996 and perhaps in 2000 (Red Violin) but I could be totally wrong...

 

[Mrs. P]

That's a lot of YouTube videos to watch...
Good luck to who ever wants to take that venture. ...actually I love answering trivia questions so maybe I'll try.
Get back to you later.

 

[aftertherain]

This question was raised in another htread by FlattFan. Does anyone know for sure?

I am pretty sure that Michelle Kwan never did, and that no one since her did it either. Did Tara in 1997? Kristi?

She did seven triples at 1995 Worlds, 1995 Skate America, 1996 Worlds, 1997 Skate America, 1998 US Nationals, 1998 Olympics, 1998 Worlds (qualifying round), 1998 World Pro, 2000 Worlds (long program), 2001 Worlds (qualifying round), and 2001 Worlds (long program).

Source: http://heatherw.com/mk/jump/7triples.htm

 

[Mathman]

^ I just looked it up on Heather's Jump Statistics. At 2000 Nationals she fell on her 3Loop.

1996 (Salome) was weird. She did 7 triples including a 3T/3T. But the landing of the second 3T in the combination was double-footed, so it didn't count and she only got credit for 6 triples. (Back then, the judging system did not tolerate technical errors, like this namby-pamby CoP system does now. If you didn't land the jump properly, no cigar. )

But then she tacked a 1A on at the very end. So in all she had eight jumping passes after all.

 

[Mrs. P]

She did seven triples at 1995 Worlds, 1995 Skate America, 1996 Worlds, 1997 Skate America, 1998 US Nationals, 1998 Olympics, 1998 Worlds (qualifying round), 1998 World Pro, 2000 Worlds (long program), 2001 Worlds (qualifying round), and 2001 Worlds (long program).

Source: http://heatherw.com/mk/jump/7triples.htm

Cool info. It looks like she's only done it once in Nationals, in 1998 and in 8 passes.
But it's fun to see the other times MK did it.

 

[jsteam4501s]

First of all, No skater has done 7 triples in 7 passes - not Rachael, not Tara, not Kwan, not Ando, - Nobody. The reason is simple. The ISU has never required or allowed any skater to make 7 separate passes and do one triple in each of them. In each and every case, at least 2 triples was done in combination, and other "passes" had maybe double axles or other triple-triple combinations. But let me repeat - no skater has ever done 7 separate "passes" and done ONE triple jump in each of them. Programs have never been constructed that way.

 

[Mathman]

She did seven triples at 1995 Worlds, 1995 Skate America, 1996 Worlds, 1997 Skate America, 1998 US Nationals, 1998 Olympics, 1998 Worlds (qualifying round), 1998 World Pro, 2000 Worlds (long program), 2001 Worlds (qualifying round), and 2001 Worlds (long program).

Source: http://heatherw.com/mk/jump/7triples.htm

Mrs. P take note of this wonderful Michelle site, so you don't have to look at the You Tubes.

The question was, did she ever do it at U.S. Nationals, and in 7 seven jumping passes not 8?

By the way, I think we should add 1995 Skate America to the "7 in 7" list. Although she did 8 jumping passes in all, she did do seven triples in her first seven passes, including a triple-triple, and also the required double Axel. Then she tacked another double Axel on at the end, for an eighth pass.

First of all, No skater has done 7 triples in 7 passes - not Rachael, not Tara, not Kwan, not Ando, - Nobody. The reason is simple. The ISU has never required or allowed any skater to make 7 separate passes and do one triple in each of them. In each and every case, at least 2 triples was done in combination, and other "passes" had maybe double axles or other triple-triple combinations. But let me repeat - no skater has ever done 7 separate "passes" and done ONE triple jump in each of them. Programs have never been constructed that way.

That wasn't exactly the question. The question was about doing a total of no more than seven passes, and achieving a total of 7 triples in all.

I see what you are saying, though. A double Axel has always been a requirement.

But wait. You could do 6 solo triples and a 2A+3T combo. Seven in seven! (Did Akiko do something like that this year?)

 

[DesertRoad]

Akiko does two 3jump~2axel sequences. I'm surprised more skaters aren't doing it. But it's an easy way to get in 7 triples while still fulfilling the requirement to do an axel.

 

[hrmsk8ngnutt]

This should be a pre-COP and post-COP question (IMHO). The pre-COP question would be 'who has done a 7 triple program?' because if a skater has all triples except for the axel, they would only be allowed to do 7 triples - 5 triples alone and 2 triples repeated in combination. If a skater does a 3T/3T combination, they can't do any more 3T, have to do the other 4 triple jumps, and can only repeat one of those triples. Plus, there was no limit on the number of 2A. Correct me if I am wrong, but the limit on number of jump passes and jump combos/sequences came when COP was introduced. Alissa Czisny had 7 jump passes, but her last jump pass was 3T/2T. This element did not count because she had already done 3 jump combos/sequences. When programs are created, the team needs to keep in mind all jumps in all 7 passes and make sure there is not an extra jump or jump combo/sequence that won't be counted.

 

[Mrs. P]

Mrs. P take note of this wonderful Michelle site, so you don't have to look at the You Tubes.

The question was, did she ever do it at U.S. Nationals, and in 7 seven jumping passes not 8?

By the way, I think we should add 1995 Skate America to the "7 in 7" list. Although she did 8 jumping passes in all, she did do seven triples in her first seven passes, including a triple-triple, and also the required double Axel. Then she tacked another double Axel on at the end, for an eighth pass.

I actually like watching the YouTube videos. But it does eat up a lot of your time.
Anyway, I just rewatched Akiko's skate from Japanese Nationals and she did indeed do 7 single triple jumps in 7 passes.

ETA: I just love Aikiko Suzuki. She has such great spirit on the ice.

ETA (pt 2): The jump layout: 3F+2T+2Lo 3T-2A 3Lo 3F 3Lz 3Lo-2A 3S

 

[FlattFan]

I just want to add this to this thread what I posted

A 7 triples program is a lot harder than a 6 triples program because the last triple means the skater must have a full set of triples (minus the 3A) + executed the other 6 cleanly + the fatigue factor after the 6 triples. The 7th triple is not an indepedent event. I think there should be an added bonus for a 6th triple, and even a bigger bonus for a 7th triple.

I really enjoy Akiko this season, too. She's a pleasant surprise. What a comeback story. They should do a fluff on her at the Olympics and bring light to a big problem (anorexia) that some of the girls face.

 

[aftertherain]

I actually like watching the YouTube videos. But it does eat up a lot of your time.
Anyway, I just rewatched Akiko's skate from Japanese Nationals and she did indeed do 7 single triple jumps in 7 passes.

ETA: I just love Aikiko Suzuki. She has such great spirit on the ice.

And she's cute to boot! Although ... she IS older than me ...

 

[Mrs. P]

And she's cute to boot! Although ... she IS older than me ...

She may be 24, but she doesn't look it! By the way, as a woman, I can appreciate the simplistic beauty of her red dress.

 

[gkelly]

First of all, No skater has done 7 triples in 7 passes - not Rachael, not Tara, not Kwan, not Ando, - Nobody. The reason is simple. The ISU has never required or allowed any skater to make 7 separate passes and do one triple in each of them. In each and every case, at least 2 triples was done in combination,

Yes, if there were repeat triples (and there would have to be for 7 triples since the Zayak rule came in 1983), some of the triples would legally have to be done in combination. But they could be in combination with double toe on the end, for example, so each triple would be in a separate jumping pass. There was and is no requirement to do two of the triples in combination with each other.

If there were a total of seven jumping passes, then either there was no axel jump, one of the triples was a triple axel, or one of the triples was in combination or sequence with a single or double axel.

Under the current IJS rules, seven jumping passes is the maximum for ladies, and some sort of axel jump is required.

and other "passes" had maybe double axles or other triple-triple combinations. But let me repeat - no skater has ever done 7 separate "passes" and done ONE triple jump in each of them. Programs have never been constructed that way.

I'd have to search for examples to see if anyone has done what was asked in this thread. But it certainly could be allowed.

I see what you are saying, though. A double Axel has always been a requirement.

No, double axel has never been required in the long program (and has always been required in the short ).
In the old system, the rules said nothing about double axels.
Under IJS, the well-balanced program rules for the LP require "an axel-type jump." Most junior and senior ladies fill that requirement with one or more double axels. But single or triple axels would also meet the requirement.

[/quote]But wait. You could do 6 solo triples and a 2A+3T combo. Seven in seven! (Did Akiko do something like that this year?)[/QUOTE]

That would work only if one of the 6 solo triples was a 3A. Otherwise you'd have to repeat a solo triple. To make it legal, you'd have to at least add a 2T on the end.

Of course skaters do sometimes repeat triples without adding the combination. It isn't legal, and there are rules in place to penalize it.


Hypothetical examples:

Under the 6.0 rules, 1983-2004, the following would be a legal ladies' jump layout:

3Lz+2T
3F
3Lo
3Lz
3T+2T
3T
3S

Seven jump passes, seven triples, two repeats properly done in combination. No axel jump, but that wasn't a requirement.

Nor was there a requirement to limit the number of jump passes. So many ladies did indeed include jump layouts much like the above and also added a double axel.

Under the current rules, the following would be legal jump layouts:

3Lz-2T-2Lo
3Lz
3F+2A+SEQ
3F
3Lo
3S
3T+2T
(Seven triples of five different kinds, each in a separate jumping pass, one of the passes filling both the axel requirement and the requirement to perform one of the repeated flips in a combo or sequence)

3Lz
3F
1A+3S (one-foot axel)
3Lo+2Lo
3S
3T+2T
3Lo
(Seven triples of five different kinds, each in a separate jumping pass, one of the passes filling both the axel requirement, with a single axel landed on the other foot, and the requirement to perform one of the repeated salchows in combo or sequence)

3A
3Lz-2T-2T
3Lz
3F
3Lo
3T+2T
3S-2Lo
(Seven triples of six different kinds, each in a separate jumping pass; 3A is one of the triples and fills the axel requirement)

 

[janetfan]

She may be 24, but she doesn't look it! By the way, as a woman, I can appreciate the simplistic beauty of her red dress.

I think Akiko had several 7 triple LP's this season. Maybe at COC which she won, the GPF with a very disputable bronze and Natils where she won silver.

She had a great season and I love this girl and the way she skates.
I will be rooting so hard for Akiko in Vancouver

 

[Mrs. P]

I think Akiko had several 7 triple LP's this season. Maybe at COC which she won, the GPF with a very disputable bronze and Natils where she won silver.

She had a great season and I love this girl and the way she skates.
I will be rooting so hard for Akiko in Vancouver

As will I. I think the bronze at GPF was questionable. She could have had at least a silver.

 

[Mathman]

Akiko does two 3jump~2axel sequences. I'm surprised more skaters aren't doing it. But it's an easy way to get in 7 triples while still fulfilling the requirement to do an axel.

OT, but your new avatar is scaring me.

3Lz
3F
1A+3S (one-foot axel)
3Lo+2Lo
3S
3T+2T
3Lo
(Seven triples of five different kinds, each in a separate jumping pass, one of the passes filling both the axel requirement, with a single axel landed on the other foot, and the requirement to perform one of the repeated salchows in combo or sequence)

(!) Can you give some more detail about the one-foot single Axel.? Are you on the wrong foot to do a Salchow in combination after an Axel? Could you do the same thing with a "one-foot double Axel," or would that be too hard? Could you turn it around and do a 3S+2A sequence?

Didn't Sasha used to do a sequence with a Salchow as the second jump?

 

[i love to skate]

(!) Can you give some more detail about the one-foot single Axel.? Are you on the wrong foot to do a Salchow in combination after an Axel? Could you do the same thing with a "one-foot double Axel," or would that be too hard? Could you turn it around and do a 3S+2A sequence?

Didn't Sasha used to do a sequence with a Salchow as the second jump?

After an axel you would just have to do a half loop to be able to do the salchow. Triple toe half loop triple salchow has been performed by skaters such as Lipinski and Rochette.

 

[janetfan]

OT, but your new avatar is scaring me.

(!) Can you give some more detail about the one-foot single Axel.? Are you on the wrong foot to do a Salchow in combination after an Axel? Could you do the same thing with a "one-foot double Axel," or would that be too hard? Could you turn it around and do a 3S+2A sequence?

gkelly reminded me of this a while ago.

It is Jill Trenary on her way to winning 1990 Worlds.

Watch for the one -footed axel into a 3S at about 1:20 of the clip.
Sorry the quality is not better.

I think this combo jump is very cool and sad we don't see it anymore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFxBgF7jc-k