Where are the Talent Pools for Men's Figure Skating?

[jennylovskt]

It seems that men's figure skating is not lack of new comers and new stars, at least in North America. The most importantly, the level of the men's skating is very high technically and artistically, IMO. So it is not clear to me that where the talent pools are for it? Do boys have much better chances to be successful than girls? How do they keep such high level in senior competitions?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I did watch a Russian Nationals on IceNetwork two years ago and was very impressed with the the skating of Russia's young men. I've also noticed that there are young Japanese and Chinese young men coming along just fine.

But where oh where are the young Ladies? Most are coming out of Finland.

Joe

 

[Tinymavy15]

I guess Adam Rippon is our next hope for a star, but to tell the truth I do not see any world medalist from him yet. Patrick Chan could be somthing great if can land two 3 axels in his LP.

As for the junior and novice and lower I don't know. I guess you could say that the men have it easier, they have a lot less competition, but then again they also have to learn 3 axels and quads.

 

[indicatoto101]

Maybe men take longer to peak than women. Were Jeff, Johnny, Evan, Stephane, Brian, Tomas, Daisuke, Oda touted as talents when they were skating in Juniors?

 

[Medusa]

Maybe men take longer to peak than women. Were Jeff, Johnny, Evan, Stephane, Brian, Tomas, Daisuke, Oda touted as talents when they were skating in Juniors?

I think that the men need more time to peak - though there are guys like Kulik, or also Yagudin and Plushenko - who were European and World Champions in their teens.

But about their talent as junior skaters: Oda (he was nearly 18 then), Takahashi (he was nearly 16) and Weir (at age 16) were World Junior Champions. Evan was World Vice Junior Champion three times.

It's a bit different with the European guys, the smaller European countries don't have that much talent among their ranks - this means if they happen to have a promising guy - they start sending him to senior events pretty early. Neither Lambiel, Joubert or Verner ever medalled at Junior Worlds. Lambiel took part twice, Joubert and Verner just once. But Lambiel had his first Europeans at the age of 15 (came in 9th), his first Olympics at 16. Joubert went to his first Europeans at the age of 17 (and won the Bronze). Verner went to his first Senior Worlds at the age of 15.

So I think all of them (not sure about Buttle) showed lots of promise at "juniors" and were talked about.

 

[jennylovskt]

We see so many young girls figure skating every where but we don't see many boys do it. However, we see many promising young men constantly feeding the senior level competitions. Does that mean that "every boy who does figure skating counts"? With indicatoto101 and Medusa's "men take longer to peak" theory in mind, I guess that it would be much easier for boys to compete at low level competitions than girls. And the successful rate for boys is much higher than the girls.

Then again, it's a puzzle that with such a small number of boys do figure skating, the senior level of men's competitions are still managed to keep at such high level, and continuing to push the human limits.:scratch:

 

[Bennett]

My theory is that the society doesn't necessarily need to have a whole lot of genius ppl. Only several may cover the needs in the field.

 

[screech]

So I think all of them (not sure about Buttle) showed lots of promise at "juniors" and were talked about.

Jeff didn't really start showing his promise until he was 19 - in the 2001/2002 season when he won a surprise silver at NHK, bronze at Canadians, won the 4CC and came 8th at worlds. Before that he was shown I think once on TV at the Canadian nationals (I think his SP in 2000?) and nobody paid any attention. It was after the 2002 season that Rod Black started labelling him as 'the next big thing' and as having talent. He had already been competing as a senior for a few (2? 3?) seasons at that point. Jeff was definitely a late bloomer on the skating scene... I've heard that he didn't get a consistent DOUBLE axel until he was about 14 or 15 or something like that, so a definite late bloomer.

 

[Buttercup]

I think the Yagudin/Plushenko rivalry helped set the bar very high in the men's and the top guys know that they need to reach a pretty impressive standard to really compete. And though both Plushy and Yagudin won championships as teens, I think both peaked in their twenties. Is the toll high-level figure skating takes on a girl's/young woman's body is more severe, leading to shorter careers and ultimately to more top competitors retiring before realizing their full potential? Imagine if Yagudin and MK had retired at 18, after Nagano 98: although both were already accomplished skaters at that age, esp. Michelle, would they have been as memorable to us?

That having been said, there are currently some very impressive female skaters in Finland (as Joesitz said) and of course in Japan, and I think being in such a competitive environment pushes young skaters to excel even more.

BTW, Medusa's right about Joubert/LambielVerner not coming up through the junior ranks. Joubert's placement in the one Junior Worlds in which he did take part was 15th, which definitely wouldn't have stopped the presses. But I'm not sure the three of them were that successful as seniors their first few years: Verner competed as a senior for years before really making a splash at 2007 Euros, and Lambiel won his first major medal of any kind when he became the 2005 World champion, aged 20. Joubert was medalling at Europeans, but had only one podium finish at Worlds as a teen (a silver in 2004, when he was 19).

My theory is that the society doesn't necessarily need to have a whole lot of genius ppl. Only several may cover the needs in the field.

Good point, Bennett! The same is true for other athletic and creative endeavors... I'd be happy to have a lot of genius medical researchers, though.