Who is/was the stronger skater of the partnership?

[Alba]

They were both great but Marina wasn't particularly strong. I remember an interview where Gwendal said that all female skaters have very strong legs and all the lifts that Marina did where based on leg strength. And that she didn't want to do it in the first place and was outraged by the idea, but that she later liked the idea of a trademark move.

I have difficulty understanding the bold part. Lifts are not about strength on legs, less so if a woman has to lift a man. If that's the case her back would've broken. Lifts are about balance and also assistance by the partner, meaning not being dead weight.

I'm a dancer, not a skater, but isn't the whole point of partner work that you form a unit as a couple? So doesn't the fact that one partner stands out a lot more than the other indicate a failure of the partnership even if they don't make mistakes as such?

True but it's not so easy, especially in ID, that both partner have the same technique and perfect SS. In anycase a partnership is made also of other things, not just SS, and many couple do compensate each other even if they are not 100% equal in their skills. For example Chock&Bates, yes he's better in terms of SS but she is much better then him in selling the program, basically PE. Usova was not as good as Zhulin as a skater but she was a very good performer also. Margaglio was completely useless.

 

[solani]

I have difficulty understanding the bold part. Lifts are not about strength on legs, less so if a woman has to lift a man. If that's the case her back would've broken. Lifts are about balance and also assistance by the partner, meaning not being dead weight.

That's what he said. And she never lifted him very high, it was never even close to shoulder level, she didn't use her arms to lift him. The center of gravity was always very low, his weight was always mainly on her legs. I'm sure she would have had to train her upper body harder if she would have wanted to lift him higher. It's true that when you have the right balance point and the partner is not a dead weight you can lift heavier partners with the right technique, but when skating at speed this gets more difficult and, as you mentioned, more dangerous.
http://passiononice.proboards.com/thread/1723/favourite-reversed-lift

 

[Alba]

That's what he said. And she never lifted him very high, it was never even close to shoulder level, she didn't use her arms to lift him. The center of gravity was always very low, his weight was always mainly on her legs. I'm sure she would have had to train her upper body harder if she would have wanted to lift him higher. It's true that when you have the right balance point and the partner is not a dead weight you can lift heavier partners with the right technique, but when skating at speed this gets more difficult and, as you mentioned, more dangerous.
http://passiononice.proboards.com/thread/1723/favourite-reversed-lift

True, it wasn't high and close to shoulder level. His weight was mainly on her legs but I had in mind exactly the no. 1 and 2 lifts from those pictures. That's on her waist level and he's holding on her shoulder and arms. I would've thought that does require a good overall balance more than strong legs.

 

[lyndichee]

I must be looking at a different Dylan and Lubov

She usually the one who misses the jumps and she can't hold on at the beginning of SBS spins.

Hawayek and Baker?

to lyndichee, hmm I find Luba better than Dylan. She just exhibits star quality....just minus the jumps.

Oh yeah she definitely catches my attention more but she can't seem to hold on when she starts a spin and those jumps are key.

Don't take it the wrong way, I love them and think they skate with a lot of heart but I think the technical score will hold them back.

 

[gmyers]

In the case of I/k its so obvious because they broke up and while he is headed toward retirment and ice shows she is headed toward another Olympics and possible world championship and Olympic gold.

 

[solani]

In the case of I/k its so obvious because they broke up and while he is headed toward retirment and ice shows she is headed toward another Olympics and possible world championship and Olympic gold.

I wouldn't write him off that fast, or are there any news on how they're doing? He seems to be a little stupid, but he's not a bad skater and something in me would like to see them competing against I/Z and losing again.
And I think that they are both great skaters, but they weren't well matched. They didn't feel like a team to me and that was the great thing about Black Swan (if that makes sense).

 

[gmyers]

I wouldn't write him off that fast, or are there any news on how they're doing? He seems to be a little stupid, but he's not a bad skater and something in me would like to see them competing against I/Z and losing again.
And I think that they are both great skaters, but they weren't well matched. They didn't feel like a team to me and that was the great thing about Black Swan (if that makes sense).

IT definitely makes sense. There had to be a real tension there for the program to work.

 

[nocturnalis]

I think it was more off the ice issues that on the ice issues. Did she really think that dumping her partner/boyfriend to date their coach was going to end well?

 

[chameleon]

I think I/K broke up romantically shortly before they even moved to Morozov, actually.

 

[Alba]

Did she really think that dumping her partner/boyfriend to date their coach was going to end well?

I'm not sure how do you know that she was the one to dump him (the timing) and not viceversa? If you want gossip I know another story of who dumped who and why. This is not a topic about I&K, much less about their off ice relationship. It has already been discussed to death. They made mistakes and had the same problems since when coaching with Zhulin, way before Morozov.

 

[bramweld]

nocturnalis, I/K breaking up had almost nothing to do with Morozov. They were just not a compatible pairing.
Some things are best left unmentioned.

 

[elbkup]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL2...9_r&params=OAFIAVgI&v=L0otg_Z-esc&mode=NORMAL

Does anyone remember Lang & Tchernyshev? They were my favs ... She is so graceful but he's a powerful skater... Together a terrific presence!

 

[lauravvv]

I think it was more off the ice issues that on the ice issues. Did she really think that dumping her partner/boyfriend to date their coach was going to end well?

I think I/K broke up romantically shortly before they even moved to Morozov, actually.

I'm not sure how do you know that she was the one to dump him (the timing) and not viceversa?

Ilinykh said in an interview (sometime last season I think) that they actually never dated at all (not in these exact words, but that's the gist). Do you think that she was lying? What reason did she have to do so, if that's the case? Or perhaps their "romantic involvement" was just the imagination of fans?

 

[alithia]

Ilinykh said in an interview (sometime last season I think) that they actually never dated at all (not in these exact words, but that's the gist). Do you think that she was lying? What reason did she have to do so, if that's the case? Or perhaps their "romantic involvement" was just the imagination of fans?

She said 'they weren't a romantic couple' referring to when they broke up like a dance couple which is the truth anyway when asked by the journalist about emotions if they meet again.I don't know why a person needs to give a timeline of any relationship just for the fans but I think everyone knew they weren't together for years ( ok some believed in hidden relationships like the secret V/M babies and magical unicorns as well)

It was this interview.
http://rsport.ru/interview/20140916/772751317.html


On topic....When I think of weak partners, Isabelle Duchesnay comes to mind straight away. Albena Denkova in her beginning with Stavisky was weak, Dorbriazko in the beginning but later they caught up, or the guys slowed down.
Usova and Zhulin always gave me the impression of her not being weaker, but her not being as charismatic as he was. As if they basically needed other partners, although I loved them

 

[Alba]

Ilinykh said in an interview (sometime last season I think) that they actually never dated at all (not in these exact words, but that's the gist). Do you think that she was lying? What reason did she have to do so, if that's the case? Or perhaps their "romantic involvement" was just the imagination of fans?

I've heard different tunes (worse about him and names were made) but the only two people involved never spoke about their personal relationship, as far as I know. So, why are we even speaking, now, let alone judging?!

Usova and Zhulin always gave me the impression of her not being weaker, but her not being as charismatic as he was. As if they basically needed other partners, although I loved them

I always thought the opposite. For me she was charismatic but she was much weaker than him as a skater.
Oksana would've been the perfect partner for him.

 

[solani]

I always thought the opposite. For me she was charismatic but she was much weaker than him as a skater.
Oksana would've been the perfect partner for him.

Back then when I heard about the splits and that partner changing drama I also thought that Grishuk/Zhulin could be something, but then it wasn't. Don't know why.

 

[Rossig]

Oksana would've been the perfect partner for him.

I'm not really sure. They skated together in some pro-competitions. Their dances were tacky and tasteless. But who knows, maybe if they had started earlier and got good choreography, they could have become a very good couple. On the other hand, Maya might not have had skating skills Oksana had, but at least skated more beautifully, without making those weird, frantic upper body movements, Oksana was in a habit of doing.

I think there was never a problem of Usova and Zhulin that one of the partners was better than the other one. The problem was their relationship, which must have had some impact on their skating. I'm still surprised that they managed to skate together for such a long time.

 

[Alba]

I'm not really sure. They skated together in some pro-competitions. Their dances were tacky and tasteless. But who knows, maybe if they had started earlier and got good choreography, they could have become a very good couple.

Yeah I saw that. Nothing special but I don't see where is the tacky and tasteless part? Are you speaking about the Enigma program? Anyway, that was when they were already pro. They skated 1 year only (I think?) and a split with their partners occurred. Also, do not underestimate the pro Usova and Oksana the *****, especially in the USA, who stole her man sentiment.

On the other hand, Maya might not have had skating skills Oksana had, but at least skated more beautifully, without making those weird, frantic upper body movements, Oksana was in a habit of doing.

I liked both their skating, as a performance. As a skater, which I think was the main question of this topic, there is no comparison. Oksana was a top skater. Yes, she could be frantic sometimes but it suited her. It gave her a certain character. At least IMO, degustibus.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

I thought I would bump this topic for people's thoughts vis a vis this season.

In pairs or dance, who out of each partnership is showing the better skating skills? Why? Have any partners shown dramatic or small improvements?

Please try to have something to back up your points (even better with a video) and not just 'So and so is best because they are'. Some of us need a tech education!

If you want to still recall skating partnerships of the past, please do! This is partly resurrected because I recently watch TSL's long, but fascinating, interview with Belbin and Agosto and their discussion of trying to improve their basic skills when they first moved to Igor Shpilband and then again when they moved to Linichuk was very interesting.

 

[LiamForeman]

Funny is, I use as a rule of thumb that if you are focusing on the male in a pair, then he's obviously significantly better than his partner. I watched the TSL interview and I realized that I focused on Ben and ignored Tanith and her perkiness and "O Face" when they competed. Same thing with Bourne and Kraatz. You couldn't take your eyes off him, and perky Shae-Lyn just miraculously kept up with him. (If you can't tell, I don't 'do' perky. It annoys me to see it, especially in a fakey fake dance).

As for current teams, the only pair that stands out is Chock and Bates. Everyone else seems evenly matched to me.

ETA: There ARE exceptions to this rule of thumb. I couldn't take my eyes off Margaglio because he was SOOOOO awful. LOL. It was like, what, Barbara? Did you just go into a bar and pick an attractive drunk guy at the bar and say "You want to go to the Olympics? Come dance with me. It doesn't matter if you can't dance or skate, I am the leader of this pack and I will sell it!"