Who will be more remembered in the eyes of history?

[olayolay]

Hi, long time lurker at GS, first time poster.

With these Olympics finally upon us, I've sort of regarded it as an end of an era with so many of the top skaters of the last two quads retiring after Sochi to make way for the new wave of skaters. It's got me thinking about the legacy and impact each of them will have left on the sport and which of them will be remembered over their rivals and why. A lot of that legacy is riding on how they perform in Sochi so this discussion might be about a week premature, but I thought it would be interesting anyway.

1. Yuna Kim vs. Mao Asada

If Mao never wins a gold medal, will she forever be in Yuna's shadow in the eyes of the history books or will history regard her as they do Michelle Kwan? How will history regard Yuna if she fails to defend her gold medal...and especially if she loses to an upstart like Lipnitskaia? She will forever be remembered as an Olympic gold medalist, but does her legacy suffer from her relative absence from the sport in the last quad and the failure to defend Olympic gold?

2. Virtue/Moir vs. Davis/White

If Davis/White win a gold medal in Sochi, both teams will have the same number of Olympic medals and world titles under their belt. Depending on whether they decide compete at Worlds, D/W will likely end up having more. Does the conventional wisdom that D/W have now surpassed V/M elevate them above their rivals once and for all? Or does the 'Bolero' status V/M's Mahler achieved in 2010 enough to cement their place in history? Or perhaps both teams will forever be linked with each other and no future story about one will fail to mention the other.

3. Patrick Chan

If he fails to win a gold medal in Sochi, will he still be regarded as one of the greats of the sport? Three world championships is nothing to sneeze at and his artistry remains virtually unparalleled. Does he really need Olympic hardware in his trophy cabinet to solidify his place in the sport? Or perhaps his legacy will be inflation and as a skater who the judges liked a whole lot more than the audience ever did.

Just some things I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on. I've always wondered why some skaters are remembered over others, despite being more decorated or having won more medals. Is it savvy media marketing or charisma or perhaps purely because they're American and Americans tend to elevate their own.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, olayolay. Great thread.

About Yuna Kim, I don't think her legacy will be diminished if she doesn't win, but is she does win she will join an exclusive club with only two other members, Sonja Henie and Katarina Witt. In that case she will certainly have a claim to the "greatest of all time" status.

If Mao wins, I think that Mao and Kim will be remembered with equal affection and regard. The same with the two dance teams, should Davis and White win gold and Virtue and Moir silver this time around.

IMHO Patrick Chan will be remembered as the first male skater to truly embrace the new scoring system. He brought blade-to-ice skills back into the forefront of skating. The Olympic gold medal would crown his ever-interesting journey. Without it, he might be best remembered in the catogory of "best skaters never to win Oly gold' (He won't replace Kurt Browning as king of that particular hill, however. )

 

[GF2445]

Yuna Kim vs. Mao Asada
-Both will be remembered. Yuna will be remembered as a phenomenon- a diamond in the rough. Mao is the face of ladies' skating in Japan and her achievements has cemented her into history.


Tessa/Scott vs. Meryl/Charlie
-I think that Mahler will secure the Canadians into history. People say that you look back into the past, you will not remember the person so much but you will remember the impression they left. Mahler did that.
-In saying that, as Meryl/Charlie have taken command of the Ice Dance crown. If we do remember them, it was because of their rivalry with the Canadians and the impression that rivalry left on the sport--which in my opinion was for the better of ice dance

Patrick Chan
-If he wins, he will because he will be Canada's first OGM.
-If he loses, he will because he will join the list of Canadian Men who couldn't deliver when it counted

 

[Buttercup]

Hi, long time lurker at GS, first time poster.

With these Olympics finally upon us, I've sort of regarded it as an end of an era with so many of the top skaters of the last two quads retiring after Sochi to make way for the new wave of skaters. It's got me thinking about the legacy and impact each of them will have left on the sport and which of them will be remembered over their rivals and why. A lot of that legacy is riding on how they perform in Sochi so this discussion might be about a week premature, but I thought it would be interesting anyway.

...

Just some things I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on. I've always wondered why some skaters are remembered over others, despite being more decorated or having won more medals. Is it savvy media marketing or charisma or perhaps purely because they're American and Americans tend to elevate their own.

Very good first post!

My thoughts - well, of course it is impossible to say with any sort of certainty at this point. The one current skater who I think will definitely be remembered is Plushenko, because his career simply defies belief and he has a larger than life persona to go along with it. Of the skaters you mentioned, I'd say most likely Kim and V/M, not just because of their accomplishments but because they have a narrative to go along with them: Kim as the underdog who came out of nowhere (well, out of a non-skating country) to take the world by storm and dominate ladies' skating; V/M as the home-ice OGMs, first NA team to win gold, Mahler etc. Asada gets lost in the shuffle because there have been other great Japanese ladies, D/W because they are pretty much repeating V/M's achievements, and Chan because there's no particularly interesting narrative for him and he has no memorable, career-defining program.

 

[hyperinflation]

Chan because there's no particularly interesting narrative for him and he has no memorable, career-defining program.

do you really need a career-defining performance if you've been pretty consistently good though? i don't necessarily disagree, but i can think of lots of good, even iconic, skaters without one

if mao doesn't win gold, i think she'll be lost in the shuffle too. which makes me upset because she's my personal favorite, but i just don't see her having the same reputation say, michelle kwan has for never having won gold. yuna is already a great, she doesn't need another gold to prove it. besides, she deserves credit for sticking around after vancouver despite already winning

v/m will be more remembered than d/w unless shez turns out as good as mahler was in 2010. and even then, probably not. v/m won gold first and d/w's relationship isn't really an interest point in their partnership like v/m's is

patrick will be another kurt browning if he doesn't win gold. a legend in canada, but not so much internationally and just another canadian men's skater who failed to win gold

 

[Olympia]

Great first post! A wonderful issue to contemplate.

I agree that those most likely to be remembered are Plushenko, Kim, and Virtue/Moir, for the reasons mentioned. I think Asada will remain among the legends in her home country, and among her non-Japanese fans, including me. The same will be true of Davis/White--when we ice dance fans talk about the greats throughout time, they will definitely be on the list near the top.

As for comparing Chan to Kurt Browning, I don't think anyone is really comparable to Kurt for many reasons. In terms of Olympic-eligible achievement, of course there's a similarity, but Kurt has given so much to skating since he turned pro, and has developed into such a unique skater besides, that he is really unparalleled. For Patrick to achieve a similar immortality, he has to continue in skating for the next ten years at least (whether eligible or pro) and develop a much more commanding style.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I think Marlie and Voir will go down in history as one of the great skating rivalries of all time. You won't be able to mention one without the other. Sorta like Martina and Chrissie or the Yankees and Red Sox. Salt and pepper (ok, you get the point.)

 

[Mirunna]

What about S/S and V/T?

Yuna will clearly be the most remembered athlete mentioned in this thread. Mao will be too, thanks to her 3As, tenacity and wonderful performances over the years (and the rivalry with Yuna)
Voir and Marlie will both be remembered as one of the greatest COP ice dancers since they dominated the sport for so long.
Patrick? I don't know. If the wins in Sochi then yes, but if not, who knows.

 

[CarneAsada]

if mao doesn't win gold, i think she'll be lost in the shuffle too. which makes me upset because she's my personal favorite, but i just don't see her having the same reputation say, michelle kwan has for never having won gold. yuna is already a great, she doesn't need another gold to prove it. besides, she deserves credit for sticking around after vancouver despite already winning

patrick will be another kurt browning if he doesn't win gold. a legend in canada, but not so much internationally and just another canadian men's skater who failed to win gold

Mao will not be lost in the shuffle. If Emi freaking Watanabe can be remembered by a handful of people 30 years later for winning one bronze at Worlds, Mao Asada will certainly be remembered, not only for two Worlds wins (which is just as many as Kim, even if Kim's were in better skated fields) and her Olympic silver, but for actually breaking real, tangible records (like the number of 3As accomplished at the Olympics, not some numeric score that can be easily manipulated like the case of Julia's incredible growing PCS/GOE) and moving the sport forward.

Patrick will also be remembered even if he doesn't win. If he gets a silver that wouldn't particularly tarnish his reputation.

 

[hyperinflation]

Mao will not be lost in the shuffle. If Emi freaking Watanabe can be remembered by a handful of people 30 years later for winning one bronze at Worlds, Mao Asada will certainly be remembered, not only for two Worlds wins (which is just as many as Kim, even if Kim's were in better skated fields) and her Olympic silver, but for actually breaking real, tangible records (like the number of 3As accomplished at the Olympics, not some numeric score that can be easily manipulated like the case of Julia's incredible growing PCS/GOE) and moving the sport forward.

i love mao, so i hope so

i think a lot of it also depends on what the skaters do after they retire. if they piss off and become accountants or dentists or something and we never hear about them ever again, they're less likely to be remembered than those who become coaches or choreographers or who still remain involved in the sport

 

[pangtongfan]

Kim vs Asada

Kim will be more remembered. I think even if Mao were to win the OGM this year this would be the case. I am a bigger fan of Mao than Kim, but Kim is the one generally remembered as the dominant skater of her era, never missing a podium of a major event and going into almost all as the favorite, and coming out of some with completely dominant wins. Some talk about Kim as possibly the best ever, and that is even before potentially winning her 2nd OGM, and I dont think Mao will ever be considered the best ever by hardly anyone.

Plus Kim is a first for her country, previously not a factor in skating. Mao is just the next great Japanese skater, and didnt have quite the impact of Midori Ito, and if she doesnt win the OGM probably even Shizuka Arakawa.


2. Virtue & Moir vs Davis & White

I honestly think it is V&M. They are the ones who seem to have amazed more past champions and be a little bit more revered, regardless how their records compare. Like Kim, some even talk about V&M as possibly the best ever, even against other legends like Torvill & Dean, Gritschuk & Platov, Klimova & Ponomarenko. Not as many as Kim, but still a decent number of people. I have never heard anyone call D&W the best ever, one of the best, but have yet to hear anyone call them the best.


3. Patrick Chan

Sadly if he doesnt win the Olympic Gold in this final season, he is more likely to be remembered as the most held up and overscored skater in history than for his achievements.

 

[OS]

I think everyone will. As long as there's a Gold Skate Forum to share

 

[jace93]

Yuna kim will surely be remembered as one of the greatest skater in history, hell she is already considered one...
while Mao Asada may not have the same fame of invincibility, I think she will also be remembered for a long time, after all she is one of the few who could land a triple axel, she is a two time world champion the youngest (i think?) to win a grand prix final, she has been the face of the sport in Japan for the more than eight years and has achieved greater results than many other skater remembered so fondly on this forum..

I think that while it seems that right now the Americans have the upper hand in the competition the ones the people will remember more fondly will be Virtue Moire because of their story as the youngest couple to ever win the OGM in ice dance and their romantic aura... but I'm pretty sure that the story of their rivalry will be remembered for a long time...

While I'm not sure that patrick chan will have a such large place in the history of figure skating if he doesn't win the OGM (if he does he will pass to history as the first candian to ever sit on the top of the podium) I'm pretty sure that as a three world champion he will be remembered for quite some times, and a few years down the road nearly no one will still remember all of is controversial win