Who will be the 2 US Ladies for next year's Worlds?

[PolymerBob]

Yes. Right.

BTW, Katrina is flying under the radar in all these discussions. If she gets more of the harder jumps down, could she get into the mix?

Possibly most years. The problem here is that the mix is only 2 girls. There is going to be a monumental epic struggle at Nationals next year.

 

[R.D.]

^ Agreed and that's the message I'm trying to get across.

 

[PolymerBob]

Flatt won the 2005 U.S. Novice national title and Zhang was 4th that year -- see: http://www.usfigureskating.org/even...nt/events/200405/uschamps/novladies-final.htm
Impressively, nine of the twelve in this field competed at 2008 Nationals at the senior or junior levels.

ETA: Zhang, Nagasu and Flatt also competed in the same qualifying group at 2004 Intermediate Nationals in December 2003 -- see: http://www.usfigureskating.org/even...t/events/200304/usjrchamps/interladies-1c.htm

Yes, you are correct. In their respective bios, Mirai and Rachael are not listed as having competed in the 2004 Intermediate Nationals because they did not make it past the qualifying round. Caroline got the bronze.

 

[C_T_T_]

I wouldn't like to try and predict a week before nationals because I think it will come down to who can hold there nerves best. I hope Kimmie is one of them though!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I wouldn't like to try and predict a week before nationals because I think it will come down to who can hold there nerves best. I hope Kimmie is one of them though!

ITA. Of course it's just 'picking out a favorite' or judging from the last competition. Both silly reasons, imo.

Try checking out the upcoming GPs first, and not just the medals, but get into figure skating and see if anyone is improving from last year. The more improvement you see will mean the harder they have been training. Unfortunately some of these venues require quite a bit of travel, and that too, should be considered.

Joe

 

[Nigel]

Yes, you are correct. In their respective bios, Mirai and Rachael are not listed as having competed in the 2004 Intermediate Nationals because they did not make it past the qualifying round. Caroline got the bronze.

Flatt was also skating pairs in 03 (Juv...silver medal at JNs) and in 04 (Int...gold medal), so she had plenty on her plate at the time.

 

[flying camel]

That's what's unusual about Caroline. She failed to make the podium at '06 nationals, then tore up the Junior Grand Prix. She came to prominance in international competition, not national. She has never won a national title in any age group, and of the 6 victories the USFSA lists, 4 of them are international. She is truely an international skater.

I don't worry about her doing well at worlds; I worry about her getting there.

Doesn't Dick Button always say that your national championship is the hardest competition to compete in. It seems to be true for some skaters.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Doesn't Dick Button always say that your national championship is the hardest competition to compete in. It seems to be true for some skaters.

It certainly is for American ladies to get to the Worlds. Even when there are three earned spots, the Amercians always leave behind 3 more who are much better than others who qualify on Natioality alone.

Joe

 

[PolymerBob]

I just thought of something. Of the girls we are rooting for; Kimmie, Bebe, Caroline, Mirai, Rachael, Emily, Katrina, Ashley, Alissa, etc.; they are all eligible for Junior Worlds next year except Bebe and Alissa.

It looks like we are in for another podium sweep.

 

[chuckm]

I just thought of something. Of the girls we are rooting for; Kimmie, Bebe, Caroline, Mirai, Rachael, Emily, Katrina, Ashley, Alissa, etc.; they are all eligible for Junior Worlds next year except Bebe and Alissa.

It looks like we are in for another podium sweep.

Emily turned 19 in January and is no longer junior-eligible.

 

[PolymerBob]

She has never won a national title in any age group, and of the 6 victories the USFSA lists, 4 of them are international. She is truely an international skater.

I just realized I made a mistake. Of Caroline’s 6 victories, 5 of them were international, not 4. Her only national level win was the 2004 Southwest Pacific Regional, intermediate division. The North American Challenge Skate was technically international.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=34948

Wikipedia lists her as winning the silver at the 2004 Southwest Pacific Regional, but in the novice division. Did she compete in two divisions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Zhang

 

[leon]

Back to original question, unlike 2008, I do expect the top placing US Skaters to be at Worlds. I believe it will come from the triumvirate of Mirai, Rachel and Caroline. It should be all three. Internationally Rachel and Caroline seem to do best. Caroline narrowly missing the GPF podium and Rachel excelling on the Junior circuit. I like National Champion Mirai too much not to want her at Worlds. All three are ideally situated in age and skill level to peak in Vancouver in 2010.

So which two would I pick? . . . I can't.

Wonderland:
I wish the ISU considered sweeping the Jr Worlds podium for two years in a row with mostly age ineligible skaters now eligible for Worlds would be a factor in allocating slots for Sr Worlds. I suppose the non-USA world would cry a loud foul if changes affecting LA were enacted but there are important and sound business and survival reasons to do so. It would not be fair to change the rule now but what does fair have to with survival? Could it really hurt the reputation of the ISU power structure? What reputation? Perhaps it is best known for making the sport less intelligible to fans and more unresponsive to fans than any major dying [at least in the West] sport in the world.

It is obvious someone decided European skating needed a Lady European champion or at least a Lady European on the podium in Sweden. I was at the Scandinavium and every close call, every possible area of discretion, "coincidentally" went against the top asian lady skaters. Kiira above Yu-Na in the SP was clearly an obvious, but perhaps not the most obvious, business decision in the competition.

Of course the ISU rarely does anything in public other than consistently promote institutional suicide with its dwindling fan base.

Any business reasons not to give 3 lady slots in LA to the host federation which it would be hard to deny had the best team of Junior lady skaters for the last two years and suffered most at Sweden from the absurd age rule? [ . . . for info I was totally opposed to denying Mao the opportunity to compete in Torino so this is not a nationalistic position . . . .] To offset the unfairness of changing the rule there is increased likelihood of better US prime time LIVE TV ratings, more likely sponsorships, increased USA pre-Olympic coverage and interest. Sure there would be a hue and cry complaining but the ISU eventually has to start making intelligent business decisions -- IN PUBLIC!!! Maybe nothing can revive figure skating in the USA but having only two US ladies in LA when US Figure skating might be home to half the top ten skaters in the World is another nail in the USFSA promotional coffin.

2007 and 2008 Jr Worlds results should be sufficient justification and all future Worlds as a matter of course should grant the host federation three slots gratis.

Elimination of Qualifying Rounds has significantly reduced the amount of skating at Worlds (with corresponding increases in ticket prices) so what would any rational cost/benefit analysis yield for adding one or two local federation skaters to any Worlds? Seeing Swedish crowd enthusiasm for their locals made me wonder why not have three in each single category? Why not?

Any more windmills to attack?

 

[krenseby]

What I really regret is that one of Mirai, Rachael, or Caroline will end up going to the 2010 Olympics without having had the chance to participate in the previous year's worlds! Would the judges hold down a great Olympic performance because the lady hasn't yet participated in a single Worlds. I hope not but I certainly fear it!

 

[PolymerBob]

What I really regret is that one of Mirai, Rachael, or Caroline will end up going to the 2010 Olympics without having had the chance to participate in the previous year's worlds! Would the judges hold down a great Olympic performance because the lady hasn't yet participated in a single Worlds. I hope not but I certainly fear it!

The Olympics is the one time the whole world is watching, and it will be 8 years since a great embarrassment. If they hold down a great Olympic performance for any reason, you can kiss this sport goodbye.

 

[enlight78]

I think there is a obvious way to fix the US problem.ISU need to change the qualification for going to worlds. I think the top six ranking skaters in the world in each discipline should automaticly quallify. It is unfair for other skaters to have to go against them at nationals. It unfair to top ranking skaters who have already prooved them selves many times internationally, their chance shouldn't be based on on competition only. And the judges would only have to judge six more skaters in the short. That is only one more flight. I feel that if you can compete well enough to be in the top 6(especailly in men) you deserve and automatic trip to worlds.

 

[ChrisH]

I totally agree that having 2 US ladies at the Los Angeles Worlds is absurd given how many medal contenders we have (3 or 4). And once Ashley gets her 3Lo combo, she's a contender too.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=34948

Wikipedia lists her [Caroline] as winning the silver at the 2004 Southwest Pacific Regional, but in the novice division. Did she compete in two divisions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Zhang

Regionals and sectionals are held late in the year while Nationals are held early in the next year. Perhaps their was a transition year or the authors just categorized the years differently.

 

[Sylvia]

I just realized I made a mistake. Of Caroline’s 6 victories, 5 of them were international, not 4. Her only national level win was the 2004 Southwest Pacific Regional, intermediate division.

Regionals is not a national level win. The USFS qualifying structure goes: Regionals, Sectionals, Nationals.

Wikipedia lists her as winning the silver at the 2004 Southwest Pacific Regional, but in the novice division. Did she compete in two divisions?

No, Zhang competed at the Intermediate level in 2003-04 and Novice in 2004-05.

 

[R.D.]

Medal contenders? Could have fooled me. None of the three we sent this year skated like medal contenders, thus why we have only 2 spots. But no fear, if we truly have "medal contenders" then three spots for Olympics shouldn't be a problem

 

[Mathman]

I think there is a obvious way to fix the US problem.ISU need to change the qualification for going to worlds. I think the top six ranking skaters in the world in each discipline should automaticly quallify.

To me, it is not so clear that this would help the U.S. ladies. At the moment, thr pre-season rankings have only one U.S. lady in the top six. Caroline Zhang is a scant 12 points ahead of Sarah Meier for sixth place. That could change -- for better or for worse -- after the Grand Prix, of course.

It is unfair for other skaters to have to go against them at nationals.

Oh, I disagree completely. All competition is fair as long as they skate on the same ice and under the same rules. If you are an up-and-comer and you want to make the world team, you have to knock out whoever is above you -- just like that person had to do went she was the new kid on the block.

As for giving an automatic bye for skaters who have been successful in the past (last month, for instance ), I can see merit in that. But you could also say, that was then, this is now.

 

[PolymerBob]

Medal contenders? Could have fooled me. None of the three we sent this year skated like medal contenders, thus why we have only 2 spots. But no fear, if we truly have "medal contenders" then three spots for Olympics shouldn't be a problem

I think ChrisH was talking about the 3 teen titans, not the girls we actually sent to Sweden.

As an American, I would certainly agree that we should have 3 spots, but I don't see that opinion registered by non-Americans.
How would we feel if the ISU said the Canadian girls will have 3 spots next year because Canadian fans believe they should?