Thomas only needed to finish 2nd in the LP to win the Gold. Manley skated a decent set of figures but was too low in that segment to win no matter what.
Why don't we included the actual programs Kostner had???? Her cleanest SP was in 2007, 67+ something and her highest LP from recently 128+, so that only come to about 95 range. Subtract the spiral from SP and add the 3F from LP, which the score kindda cancel each other out. If she were to bring back 3Lz that will bring about 3 additional point to LP score, say 130 ish.
Since Miki had 200+ with most recent PCS changes, CK is capable to reach the 200 mark. But question is will she, as she never had both clean SP+LP in same competition while other like Mao, Kim and Miki had done it before.
But I think if the some one is to crack the 200 mark, it will be Koster or one of the Russian babies (but prob not till Olympic year when everyone up their arsenals).
How about we makes this simple.
Carol and Yuna skate to the same Kostner SP and FS program NEXT year with the same layout as Worlds this year except Yuna substitute the loop with the Lutz, who'd have won? Who'd have better consistency? Who'd have better GOE and why?
I think the point is, Yuna doesn't need her Olympic performance to beat this Carol even if she goes clean, otherwise the ISU deserve to be taken apart by the Olympics Committee for being as corrupted and double standard as 2002.
Caro and Yuna skate to the same Caro programs. I doubt Yuna can perform it better than Caro. Certain will not come close in the step seq. The point is, Yuna hadn't been clean in both phase of the competition except at the Olympics. If Caro is clean, it will take her Olympic performance to beat Caro. Any other performance she did so far won't do. None of them.
Yuna can definitely beat a clean Caro if she's clean, but if you think she can beat a clean Caro with her 2009 W/2009-10 GPF, 2010 W, 2011W, you're nuts.
The worst thing about Yuna is her rabid fans.
Caro and Yuna skate to the same Caro programs. I doubt Yuna can perform it better than Caro. Certain will not come close in the step seq. The point is, Yuna hadn't been clean in both phase of the competition except at the Olympics. If Caro is clean, it will take her Olympic performance to beat Caro. Any other performance she did so far won't do. None of them.
Yuna can definitely beat a clean Caro if she's clean, but if you think she can beat a clean Caro with her 2009 W/2009-10 GPF, 2010 W, 2011W, you're nuts.
The worst thing about Yuna is her rabid fans.
There's clean with easier programs (no lutz, no 3:3s, full of doubles after half way mark, 5 triples) with less speed, transition and body movement ...
What happened to Mao? Now, she couldn't even execute the easiest 3t-3t. What did she do last 2 years?
I'm really sorry for her.. While Caroline relearned 3F, 3Lz , I don't know what Mao did.
Her too many two-footed jumps make me tired. Even Wagner corrected her two-footed jumps just within a year. Mao is a proud Olympic silver medalist and overcame suffocating olympic pressures.
I think her sticking to 3A is that she cannot do the easiest 3-3. Next season, Russian babies will rise with their difficult 3-3 such as 3lz-3t,3lz-3lo, 3F-3T etc.. Even Caroline Zhang learned 3lo-3lo ,and in SP that combo is very powerful.
I'm very proud of Wagner and Zhang. Their honest endeavors should be rewarded. What I like about them is their pure efforts and without help from Fed. Specially Kudos to Zhang , She was mocked and humiliated by media and fans, but she fought it through.
I am a kind of harsh to Mao, but her uber fans are too soft to her for 2 years ,,and need to check the reality seriously now ,if she wants to win Olympics in Sochi.
The worst thing about internet board is the people who doesn't know to just disagree gracefully, without resorting to name-calling.
Clean Caro means usually Caro with limited flip and no lutz, wasn't it? I don't remember clean Caro program until this season, and that was only with hardest jump to 3loop, until the last LP. Even this year's world, Caro wasn't clean in SP. Also, I doubt Caro will get 3F-3T to Yuna's consistency level , ever. With just 3T-3T, assuming Caro will beat Yuna with 3Lz-3T is a bit reaching, for me.
I think you are kind of Yuna hater,, Although I like Caro, She is never a consistent skater.
As you know that was a disaster, I don't know why you so hate Yuna. and you have no logic , just bottomless hatred.
Your hatred clouds your judgment. If you want to criticize somebody , it should be on the basis of facts ,not assumptions, or lies. otherwise, your criticism is the good materials for counter-attack and no more persuasive.
She had 5 triples at 2009 W. That ain't going to beat a 6 triples Caro.Yu Na Kim has done many competitions which would beat even the hypothetical imaginary clean Kostner- 2009 Worlds and 2007 Cup of Russia for starters would blow even the hypothetical imaginary Kostner away.
Yes, Ando last year would have beaten Kostner this year. NOT THE POINT. Kostner wasn't clean this year. You are conflating 2 different arguments here.Many more then that probably though, Kim's possibly worst ever performances from Worlds last year actually got a higher point total than Kostner at Worlds this year. FlattFan claimed on another thread Ando from Worlds last year would have beaten Kostner at this years Worlds, well if that is true the same would have to apply to Kim last year considering the two ended up virtually tied.
Kostner's only weakness is inconsistency. How many seasons did Rochette place ahead of Kostner? 1?Truth is there is a reason they were far overshadowed by Kim, Asada, and even Rochette for many years. They are most likely just the beneficiaries of this weak little transition period until the next generation take over, and with them as the last 2 Worlds Champions it will be much easier to do than if a much greater champion like Kim or Asada had been still going strong and on top.
I think some people in this thread, especialy FlattFan, are forgetting there is a little something called the short program. Kim MANY times has scored 70+ points in the short program, several times mid to high 70s too. This is something Kostner cant, and never will, get close to, especialy now that she is no longer doing a triple-triple or triple lutz in the short program (and isnt presented as doing so even in this fantasy clean Kostner scenario presented in this thread). That already ensures her beating even the hypothetically clean best possible Kostner (with her current jump content especialy) in many competitions, unless she dies on the ice in a way she almost never has in the long program.
Jiggs: I agree with a lot of what you said in your post #111. I really liked Carolina's FS and she deservedly won this years WC. But everyone has different artistic sensibilities, and to my eyes Yuna's Gershwin is the best FS I've ever seen. Many people will disagree and that is the way it should be. If we were all alike it would be a pretty boring world.
If Carolina continues to compete and can keep her cool under pressure, she will remain a formidable presence in the ladies competition. There are a lot of promising juniors stepping into the senior circuit this year and I don't see why they cannot be dominant quite frankly. If any of them win convincingly during the GP season they will become the favorites going into the 2013 WC. The figure skating world moves on quickly when new talent emerges that can deliver in competition.
The old guard, including Mao, Joannie, Miki and Yuna etc. could certainly add spice to mix. They might even be able to dominate again but it could be a very hard slog.
She had 5 triples at 2009 W. That ain't going to beat a 6 triples Caro.
2007 CoR was not up to par in term of PCS.
Yes, Ando last year would have beaten Kostner this year. NOT THE POINT. Kostner wasn't clean this year. You are conflating 2 different arguments here.
Kostner's only weakness is inconsistency. How many seasons did Rochette place ahead of Kostner? 1?
Kostner never had any problem with edge call. Did 3F-3T, 3Lz-3T. Speed, basic are much better than these three. She's just falling apart too many times. Ando is considerably weaker than Asada, Kim, Kostner, but should be much better than Rochette, who was a nobody until 2009.