Will Lipnitskaya pull off a comeback?

[StitchMonkey]

That's a good question. If you rotate four times in the air are you exhibiting better skating skills than if you rotate only three times? Or are you just doing more difficult acrobatics?

To me, skating skills means blade to ice. Even in spinning, although the blade does not leave the ice, still, you are not doing anything particularly intricate or interesting with your edges. Given that the IJS wants to keep everything in its own compartment -- this much for a jump, that much for swaying in time to the music, something else for skating skills (stroking, turns. etc.), it seems like the judges ought to strive to evaluate each department separately in isolation from the others.

Judges don't, of course. They are wiser than the scoring system that they are attempting to wield.

But skating skills are how you get the power and control to complete the jump/rotations aren't they? Though I rather like your "in isolation" approach, that makes sense.

 

[Mathman]

But skating skills are how you get the power and control to complete the jump/rotations aren't they?

I am somewhat conflicted about that. A person can stand on dry land in his stocking feet and leap into the air and spin around. (I just tried it, to make sure. I am typing this from the hospital. ) But to me, the cool thing about doing it on ice is the part where you land on a secure out-flowing edge. (If you really want to be cool, you should hold that edge a little extra and add a couple of curlicues to it, just to rub it in your opponent's face. :yes: )

That is why, in my opinion, we should not be lenient with falls. If you leap into the air, twirl around a few times, and then fall -- where does the ice skating come in?

 

[moriel]

Could be argued that if lets say 2 skaters show equal skating skills, but the first one does only doubles, and te second does several quads. In this case, the skater 2 actually maybe has better skating skills, as he is able to display similar skating skills to skater 1 when way more tired etc.

 

[Celine]

Hope she takes a page from Tukt's book and gets in some mileage with senior B competitions before the important Grand Prix events, as well as before the TRULY all important Russian nationals.

It's kind of mind boggling to think of the number of skaters (ladies at Russian nationals, men at Japan nationals) for whom the entire 2015-16 season won't even make it into calendar 2016!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Could be argued that if lets say 2 skaters show equal skating skills, but the first one does only doubles, and te second does several quads. In this case, the skater 2 actually maybe has better skating skills, as he is able to display similar skating skills to skater 1 when way more tired etc.

I think yes. Part of skating skills is maintaining those skating skills throughout the program. I find too many programs have poor SS throughout the program but then when it's a footwork sequence THEN skaters show how deep their edges and how good their control can be. A good judge will be able to acknowledge if a skater is balancing their skating skills throughout a program and with harder difficulty integrated, it's much harder to maintain the quality of skating skills.

To be on-topic, in the case of Lipnitskaia, I think her having 4 jumping passes in a row is fine, but it's very apparent that her level of skating skills drops in that section as she's focusing on reeling off the jumps. I also find it to be a very rushed section so it's hard to exhibit edge quality or control when you're trying to cram 4 jumping passes back to back. The dislocation spiral is fine, but it's so rushed as a transition that it hardly shows edge quality compared to if she did that spiral not as part of a jumping section but on its own.

 

[anyanka]

Hey, if Liza T came back and absolutely owned the season, there's no reason someone with the fierce competitiveness, discipline and artistry of Yulia can't do the same. The question is whether she has adjusted her technique to her body, to prevent injury and develop consistency. If we're going further back in skating, we can always point to Slutskaya going from 2nd at 98 Worlds to a miserable season to being second to Kwan just two years later. Go Yulia!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Or Arakawa winning Worlds then a bad year after, and then winning in Torino!

 

[anyanka]

Or Arakawa winning Worlds then a bad year after, and then winning in Torino!

^ Exactly.

 

[DexterK]

May I ask someone to explain why Julia's Axels look the way they do?

It is almost like she does not "step up" into them. Did any other skater perform Axels this way? Why would she be taught this method?

Thank you all in advance.

 

[Sandpiper]

May I ask someone to explain why Julia's Axels look the way they do?

It is almost like she does not "step up" into them. Did any other skater perform Axels this way? Why would she be taught this method?

Thank you all in advance.

IIRC, there was a conversation about this on her Fan Fest a while back. I think one poster said that Yulia learned her axel that way to make 2A-3T-2T easier (since it's fast and gets good flow out for the 3T).

To answer the topic of the thread: I think Yulia absolutely has the drive and talent to 'return to form,' so to speak. Imo, her problems last season were primarily psychological (since she'd skate good SPs and suddenly show up a changed person in the LP... and not in a positive way). Perhaps next year is too soon with her retooling her technique, or perhaps her competitors have gotten better and it'll be hard for her. But those things are beyond Yulia's control, and at the moment I just hope she finds that competitive fire and skates performances she can be proud of.

 

[Skater Boy]

The difficulty Julia has like possibily Radinova too is they they were both spindly and not the best technique. Slutskaya and Arakawa were older weren't having puberty issue, much stronger and better technique. Michelle Kwan was lucky she didn't grow a lot though in say 1994 she did look coltish and she never really had "big" amplitude jumps. It is possible had Tara Lipinski skated longer she too would have experience Julia's issues. Her jumps were kind of tiny and the technique didn't always look so hot. I hope she comes back but puberty is hard. that's why I say the Russians are vulnerable - lots of baby ballerinas but very few who have great technique and who are out of the puberty stage. Pog who has psych issues it appears. Tut and the aging Leonova. I guess Adelina is also a senior skater but there is doubt she really will return or regain her oly level skates. The future of Sak, Med, Rad and all really have puberty issues to face. Still I really like Julia's presence on the ice. I guess we just have to hope she can relearn everything.

 

[aromaticchicken]

May I ask someone to explain why Julia's Axels look the way they do?

It is almost like she does not "step up" into them. Did any other skater perform Axels this way? Why would she be taught this method?

Thank you all in advance.

For what it's worth, kurt browning regularly says on CBC commentary that he thinks that yulia's axel technique is pretty terrible (or some other pretty negative word)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

For what it's worth, kurt browning regularly says on CBC commentary that he thinks that yulia's axel technique is pretty terrible (or some other pretty negative word)

I've actually always considered this to be one of my favorite 2a's ever. Then again I've found KB to be very ignorable off of the ice.

 

[Nagval]

I've actually always considered this to be one of my favorite 2a's ever. Then again I've found KB to be very ignorable off of the ice.

It's my favourite 2A too. Like Hanyu 3A.

 

[Sandpiper]

For what it's worth, kurt browning regularly says on CBC commentary that he thinks that yulia's axel technique is pretty terrible (or some other pretty negative word)

He also made up crap about her regularly skipping medal ceremonies, when--as far as I can recall, anyway--she's only done so once (and that was due to error/mismanagement rather than intention).

Having seen Kurt live, I have nothing but positive thoughts on his skating... but his commentary is biased at best, misleading and demeaning at worst.

 

[Meoima]

To answer the question of the thread: YES. She will come back.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I've actually always considered this to be one of my favorite 2a's ever.

You can consider something that is objectively bad technically to be good aesthetically, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still objectively bad technically. I don't think it looks particularly good either.

 

[bramweld]

She needs better technique and time.

 

[silverlake22]

The difficulty Julia has like possibily Radinova too is they they were both spindly and not the best technique. Slutskaya and Arakawa were older weren't having puberty issue, much stronger and better technique. Michelle Kwan was lucky she didn't grow a lot though in say 1994 she did look coltish and she never really had "big" amplitude jumps. It is possible had Tara Lipinski skated longer she too would have experience Julia's issues. Her jumps were kind of tiny and the technique didn't always look so hot. I hope she comes back but puberty is hard. that's why I say the Russians are vulnerable - lots of baby ballerinas but very few who have great technique and who are out of the puberty stage. Pog who has psych issues it appears. Tut and the aging Leonova. I guess Adelina is also a senior skater but there is doubt she really will return or regain her oly level skates. The future of Sak, Med, Rad and all really have puberty issues to face. Still I really like Julia's presence on the ice. I guess we just have to hope she can relearn everything.

I'm not sure if Pogo has psych issues. She was such a strong competitor in the previous 2 seasons. Some of her struggles last season may have been puberty/growth or injury related. She said on her instagram that she is now 167 cm, and I thought she looked different last season compared to before, noticeably taller but she also had a thinner yet more mature look to her. Plus she was injured at the beginning of the season (withdrew from Nebelhorn) and then again at the end of the season (circa Worlds, a nasty injury involving a sprained ankle and torn ligaments). I think the psychological issues tend to arouse around the same time as puberty related issues anyways, and both can play a factor. For example, I think part of Julia's problem last season was physical but I also think some of it was mental. 16/17 year old girls are mostly very self conscious and can be really emotional, plus once you make mistakes, it's easy to get scared and lose the sense of fearlessness you used to have.

From what I can tell, both Julia and Anna (and Elena too, for that matter) are good competitors by nature. They are gritty, realistic, focused, and have shown they can deliver when it counts. So that makes me think what happened with Julia and Anna last season was not a permanent thing, and that any sort of "psychological issues" that had developed can and will hopefully subside once they become more comfortable in their own skin and develop a more mature mindset as they get older. To me, it seems like the ability to compete is often inherent - it can't be taught, you have it or you don't. Of course, things can change, but we've seen in the past many times that both Julia and Anna have the ability to compete. So I'd be surprised if this just went away. I'm rooting for both of them this season.

 

[hippomoomin]

A height of 167 is a little shocking to me. That is dangerously tall. Please Anna, stop growing taller.

I'm not sure if Pogo has psych issues. She was such a strong competitor in the previous 2 seasons. Some of her struggles last season may have been puberty/growth or injury related. She said on her instagram that she is now 167 cm