- Joined
- Nov 10, 2009
I suspect Chan will get 200+ for SP coz of +10 GOE on all his jumps. /tongue in cheek/
Will Mao make the Oly team?
- Thread starter Bennett
- Start date
I suspect Chan will get 200+ for SP coz of +10 GOE on all his jumps. /tongue in cheek/
Japanese Nationals
Mao got a 69.12.
Considering the Nationals inflation that often occurs, I don't know if that bodes well -- but I'm just glad that she landed that 3A! (Might be DG though). Reports say that she looks relaxed and is smiling much more (so many of us have missed her cute smile). She's made changes to both programs, and she says she's much more comfortable with them now. Can't wait to see the video!
Two great photos of Mao for fans (she's lost that frown):
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0goscOk5bA0OC/610x.jpg
http://sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/winter/pict/200912/091226_win_fig_asada_600.jpg
The current standings (after the SP):
1 Mao ASADA 69.12
2 Yukari NAKANO 68.90 (got a SO)
3 Miki ANDO 68.68
4 Akiko SUZUKI 67.84
5 Kanako MURAKAMI 60.28
6 Fumie SUGURI 58.70
7 Yukiko FUJISAWA 55.82
8 Mutsumi TAKAYAMA 54.92
9 Ayane NAKAMURA 54.60
10 Nana TAKEDA 54.54
Results here:
http://deepedge.m3.coreserver.jp/or/2009_L_sp_e.html
I'm hoping Akiko wins, though. I don't see how she will get that Olympic ticket otherwise. Mao can get it regardless of her results at the Nationals, as she qualifies for the 3rd criterion (as 3rd in world ranking and the 2008 WC), so I have no worries for her (plus, she has the sponsors, like Miki in 2006... And who can imagine Vancouver without Mao?). I guess it wil be a dogfight between Yukari and Akiko (hoping Akiko emerges victorious!)
The ladies' LP occurs tomorrow, I think. The men's LP will start soon.
Mao got a 69.12.
Considering the Nationals inflation that often occurs, I don't know if that bodes well -- but I'm just glad that she landed that 3A! (Might be DG though). Reports say that she looks relaxed and is smiling much more (so many of us have missed her cute smile). She's made changes to both programs, and she says she's much more comfortable with them now. Can't wait to see the video!
Two great photos of Mao for fans (she's lost that frown):
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0goscOk5bA0OC/610x.jpg
http://sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/winter/pict/200912/091226_win_fig_asada_600.jpg
The current standings (after the SP):
1 Mao ASADA 69.12
2 Yukari NAKANO 68.90 (got a SO)
3 Miki ANDO 68.68
4 Akiko SUZUKI 67.84
5 Kanako MURAKAMI 60.28
6 Fumie SUGURI 58.70
7 Yukiko FUJISAWA 55.82
8 Mutsumi TAKAYAMA 54.92
9 Ayane NAKAMURA 54.60
10 Nana TAKEDA 54.54
Results here:
http://deepedge.m3.coreserver.jp/or/2009_L_sp_e.html
I'm hoping Akiko wins, though. I don't see how she will get that Olympic ticket otherwise. Mao can get it regardless of her results at the Nationals, as she qualifies for the 3rd criterion (as 3rd in world ranking and the 2008 WC), so I have no worries for her (plus, she has the sponsors, like Miki in 2006... And who can imagine Vancouver without Mao?). I guess it wil be a dogfight between Yukari and Akiko (hoping Akiko emerges victorious!)
The ladies' LP occurs tomorrow, I think. The men's LP will start soon.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
Having Mao not be in Vancouver just would not be right.
I do feel some regret for Akiko or Yukari, though. They are both deserving OG participants, and it's a shame but what can you do when your nation has such a strong figure skating tradition.
I do feel some regret for Akiko or Yukari, though. They are both deserving OG participants, and it's a shame but what can you do when your nation has such a strong figure skating tradition.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Here is Mao's SP from Natls.
It is so nice to see her smile again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Fc2IDXet0
It is so nice to see her smile again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Fc2IDXet0
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Yeah, I kind of feel it's the same way in the US though. There are so many deserving men and women that should be able to skate at the Olympics but can't. I would love for Rachael, Ashley, Mirai, Alissa, and maybe even Caroline to all compete at the Olympics this year, but unfortunately it just can't happen. I think that's why Ksenia Makarova switched over from representing the US to representing Russia, less competition (at least among age-eligible skaters). I think that is the reason why so many Europeans are often underwhelming, they get to go to big events whether they are fabulous or not just because the competition is much less steep.
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True, but look at it from the bright side. The world podiums mostly consist of medalists from nations with a lot of good skaters competing. So at olympics(which is a competition between nations
) US and Japan have great conditions to grab some figure skating medals 
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
" Will Mao make the Oly team? "
Yes, she will.
Yes, she will.
i don't think you can compare present crop of american ladies and Japanese ladies, remember US can't even have three participant for the Olympics. But, Men are on different footing, US have three strong olympic medal contenders (Lysacek, Weir, Abbott) and lots of wanna be (Mroz, Bradley, Rippon etc.).
Mirai, Alissa and Caroline's performance are not much better than some of the finnish ladies or italians. i would be very hesitant in calling them(us trio mentioned above) getting anywhere near top of GPFs, Olympics or worlds.
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- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
What an inspiration it will be when Mao wins Japanese Nationals.
Hey, look, I'm a prophet.
Except I'm not inspired by Mao's win at Nationals.
Her skating has regressed and it's sad.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Mao still is a beautiful skater - but beautiful skaters need beautiful programs.
Many posters have said if Mao skates these two Tarasova programs clean we will see how beautiful they are and fall in love with them.
Mao did a pretty good job at Natls - but sorry, I am still not feeling much for her programs. I prefer Akiko and WSS over Mao's LP and even young Murikami has a more exciting LP than Mao.
I thought Murikami had the best dress too - which may be off-topic but presentation counts.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
One of the reasons why I prefer YuNa over Mao is the fact that we can see a great deal of progression in YuNa's skating, from her spirals to her speed across the ice... hell, even in terms of maturing in a physical sense.
I don't get the same impression from Mao... Perhaps it's just the burdensome and dragging music she's skating to nowadays, but I get the feeling that she hasn't really improved over these years. Her 3-A is more inconsistent than ever, she doesn't have a lutz or a salchow and she has problems with 3-3's. For a skater who skates so beautifully, I find this a bit disappointing. I can appreciate her artistry but for me, Akiko's WSS LP is much more entertaining and engaging overall.
It's good to see Mao back in the mix, however. Adds a little more spice to Vancouver.
I don't get the same impression from Mao... Perhaps it's just the burdensome and dragging music she's skating to nowadays, but I get the feeling that she hasn't really improved over these years. Her 3-A is more inconsistent than ever, she doesn't have a lutz or a salchow and she has problems with 3-3's. For a skater who skates so beautifully, I find this a bit disappointing. I can appreciate her artistry but for me, Akiko's WSS LP is much more entertaining and engaging overall.
It's good to see Mao back in the mix, however. Adds a little more spice to Vancouver.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
One of the reasons why I prefer YuNa over Mao is the fact that we can see a great deal of progression in YuNa's skating, from her spirals to her speed across the ice... hell, even in terms of maturing in a physical sense.
I don't get the same impression from Mao... Perhaps it's just the burdensome and dragging music she's skating to nowadays, but I get the feeling that she hasn't really improved over these years. Her 3-A is more inconsistent than ever, she doesn't have a lutz or a salchow and she has problems with 3-3's. For a skater who skates so beautifully, I find this a bit disappointing. I can appreciate her artistry but for me, Akiko's WSS LP is much more entertaining and engaging overall.
It's good to see Mao back in the mix, however. Adds a little more spice to Vancouver.
ITA. Mao at 15 took the world by storm, then by 16, she had grown up and looked and skated much like she does now. She tends to make silly mistakes in the short, mess up at some competitions, do really well at others. Maybe she chose heavy music to show her maturity, but I don't really get that from her programs this year. Also for some reason the way she handles herself (in the kiss and cry, etc) still seems like a young teenager, and she's almost 20. Yuna looks and handles herself like a responsible young lady that is almost 20, Mao seems more like Caroline and Mirai's age. JMPO though, and it's not really a bad thing, I just think she has it in her to be better than she has shown us this year.
I strongly disagree.
The reason that many people became Mao fans was because she kept changing and challenging new things every season. She kept trying new things, new jumps, improving her steps, trying new spin and spiral positions. She was one of few skaters to have new spirals every season, a different one on SP and LP. Up to some point, she was doing quite well in her challenge to master all 6 triples - and had them all ratified in official competition.
But then things started going south, the jumps became unstable and started taking away the concentration from other elements. This year's programs feel like programs from the last season. Some trademark moves (like compact donut, 2A out of reverse spreadeagle) are gone.
What is the problem?
To me, there are a few of them.
1. Trying to learn too many things at once.
After so many years YuNa still doesn't have a stable 3L, and trying to fix 3F made it not quite reliable. Fixing 3F also made Miki struggle with this jump. Joannie was extremely inconsistent for 2 seasons because she was fixing her Lutz. Even trying to improve 1 jump isn;t easy, and often makes the skater mess up. About the only jump that Mao didn't try to fix is 3L.
3T - toe axel, removed from programs in 05-06, shaky in 06-07, now stable
3S - Mao's less favourite jump, landed successfully in 08-09 season a few times, originally planned in this year's LP
3F - hammer toe, worked on fixing it in the off-season, at Nats back to old technique because fixing made the jump too unstable
3Lz - flutz now fixed, but the jump became very unstable in the process. Mao's old coach said that she can do it in practice, but fears it in competition
If trying to fix even 1 jump can mess up the skater's confidence, how about trying to skate when half of your jump repertoire is "fresh"?
In addiction to that TAT worked with Mao on 3F-3L-2L, 3F-3L, 3L-3L-2L, 3L-3L, 3A-3T, 2A-3T, 'Tano jumps, even talked about quad Salchow...
In result, Mao can probably do a bunch of different things in practice, but very few of them consistently enough to put it into her programs.
That was a poor strategy, IMHO. Right from the start TAT should work with Mao on those few things that Mao would need the most. For example:
1 season: Throw out Lutz, work on fixing hammer toe in 3F. Work on 3L-3L and bring back 2A-3T.
2 season: As 3F is getting more solid, start working on 3Lz.
Then when 3F and 3Lz are solid, work on 3S...
2. TAT's motto: if it doesn't work, we'll change it.
Check out the parts translated by Batsuchan in this threads:
http://maoasada.logu2.com/mao-chat-f5/mao-asada-brilliant-eighteen-t579-30.htm
The translated article mentions that TAT was surprised that Mao wasn't able to change her jump layout on the fly, like Yagudin or Kulik used to. Also, this season after Mao's performance at TEB TAT mentioned that if she wants to, she will change Mao's programs even 80 days before Olympics, like she did with Yagudin before Worlds.
Except Mao said that it was impossible. She spent long months practicing her programs and she can't change them on a whim, because she will not have enough time to get confident with the new programs.
I think the very idea of sudden changes in jump layout or programs composition doesn't go very well with CoP. Now everything needs to be perfectly orchestrated and polished, otherwise the skater will lose levels, violate Zayak rules or otherwise mess up.
I'm not a big fan of Mao's programs this season and I wish TAT let Mao skate to Caprice / Liebenstraum when Mao still wanted to. I'm not really surprised that Mao refused to change her programs mid-season - she needs every available second to work on her jumps.
To add insult to injury, Masquerade and Bells are fast, intricate (well, at least they were until Mao chucked out most of her transition out of Bells before Nats), tiring programs with the skater in motion non-stop from start to finish. Landing jumps within the framework of that constant rhytmic music probably isn't exactly easy. And the fast music only makes it more noticeable when Mao slows down while approaching her jumps. I think that a music piece with slow parts (to land the jumps) and fast parts for steps/spins) would help Mao to concentrate land her jumps. Not to mention more variation in the music would make for a more interesting program.
3. Motivation.
According to Mao herself, she really struggled with motivation after winning GPF. Ai that time she held all important titles: Worlds, 4CC, GPF, Nationals. She accomplished her goals of landing 2 3As in the LP and clean 3Lz in SP. And I think she became just tired afterwards, like Shizuka after winning worlds.
I watched a documentary with Shizuka recently and it surprised me how similar her situation was to Mao. Shizuka also trained with TAT, with TAT pushing her to "accomplish things nobody else can do" and get all lvl4 on her non-jump elements in a way that Shizuka found uncomfortable. She struggled with consistency, kept messing up her levels, missed the GPF and had two tiring programs to gloomy music. But Shizuka regained her motivation and decided to change coaches "to skate 'Shizuka-like' again". She wasn't going to Torino with a goal to win gold - but to skate programs in her own style. And, ironically, it was then when she got all lvl4 for her spins/spirals, her PCS surged and Shizuka won.
I hope this will eventually happen to Mao, too. I hope that she will stop and think what she loves in skating the most, and find a new motivation. Maybe this season it's too late... But there's still a lot of time before Sochi, and Mao doesn't plan on retiring.
The reason that many people became Mao fans was because she kept changing and challenging new things every season. She kept trying new things, new jumps, improving her steps, trying new spin and spiral positions. She was one of few skaters to have new spirals every season, a different one on SP and LP. Up to some point, she was doing quite well in her challenge to master all 6 triples - and had them all ratified in official competition.
But then things started going south, the jumps became unstable and started taking away the concentration from other elements. This year's programs feel like programs from the last season. Some trademark moves (like compact donut, 2A out of reverse spreadeagle) are gone.
What is the problem?
To me, there are a few of them.
1. Trying to learn too many things at once.
After so many years YuNa still doesn't have a stable 3L, and trying to fix 3F made it not quite reliable. Fixing 3F also made Miki struggle with this jump. Joannie was extremely inconsistent for 2 seasons because she was fixing her Lutz. Even trying to improve 1 jump isn;t easy, and often makes the skater mess up. About the only jump that Mao didn't try to fix is 3L.
3T - toe axel, removed from programs in 05-06, shaky in 06-07, now stable
3S - Mao's less favourite jump, landed successfully in 08-09 season a few times, originally planned in this year's LP
3F - hammer toe, worked on fixing it in the off-season, at Nats back to old technique because fixing made the jump too unstable
3Lz - flutz now fixed, but the jump became very unstable in the process. Mao's old coach said that she can do it in practice, but fears it in competition
If trying to fix even 1 jump can mess up the skater's confidence, how about trying to skate when half of your jump repertoire is "fresh"?
In addiction to that TAT worked with Mao on 3F-3L-2L, 3F-3L, 3L-3L-2L, 3L-3L, 3A-3T, 2A-3T, 'Tano jumps, even talked about quad Salchow...
In result, Mao can probably do a bunch of different things in practice, but very few of them consistently enough to put it into her programs.
That was a poor strategy, IMHO. Right from the start TAT should work with Mao on those few things that Mao would need the most. For example:
1 season: Throw out Lutz, work on fixing hammer toe in 3F. Work on 3L-3L and bring back 2A-3T.
2 season: As 3F is getting more solid, start working on 3Lz.
Then when 3F and 3Lz are solid, work on 3S...
2. TAT's motto: if it doesn't work, we'll change it.
Check out the parts translated by Batsuchan in this threads:
http://maoasada.logu2.com/mao-chat-f5/mao-asada-brilliant-eighteen-t579-30.htm
The translated article mentions that TAT was surprised that Mao wasn't able to change her jump layout on the fly, like Yagudin or Kulik used to. Also, this season after Mao's performance at TEB TAT mentioned that if she wants to, she will change Mao's programs even 80 days before Olympics, like she did with Yagudin before Worlds.
Except Mao said that it was impossible. She spent long months practicing her programs and she can't change them on a whim, because she will not have enough time to get confident with the new programs.
I think the very idea of sudden changes in jump layout or programs composition doesn't go very well with CoP. Now everything needs to be perfectly orchestrated and polished, otherwise the skater will lose levels, violate Zayak rules or otherwise mess up.
I'm not a big fan of Mao's programs this season and I wish TAT let Mao skate to Caprice / Liebenstraum when Mao still wanted to. I'm not really surprised that Mao refused to change her programs mid-season - she needs every available second to work on her jumps.
To add insult to injury, Masquerade and Bells are fast, intricate (well, at least they were until Mao chucked out most of her transition out of Bells before Nats), tiring programs with the skater in motion non-stop from start to finish. Landing jumps within the framework of that constant rhytmic music probably isn't exactly easy. And the fast music only makes it more noticeable when Mao slows down while approaching her jumps. I think that a music piece with slow parts (to land the jumps) and fast parts for steps/spins) would help Mao to concentrate land her jumps. Not to mention more variation in the music would make for a more interesting program.
3. Motivation.
According to Mao herself, she really struggled with motivation after winning GPF. Ai that time she held all important titles: Worlds, 4CC, GPF, Nationals. She accomplished her goals of landing 2 3As in the LP and clean 3Lz in SP. And I think she became just tired afterwards, like Shizuka after winning worlds.
I watched a documentary with Shizuka recently and it surprised me how similar her situation was to Mao. Shizuka also trained with TAT, with TAT pushing her to "accomplish things nobody else can do" and get all lvl4 on her non-jump elements in a way that Shizuka found uncomfortable. She struggled with consistency, kept messing up her levels, missed the GPF and had two tiring programs to gloomy music. But Shizuka regained her motivation and decided to change coaches "to skate 'Shizuka-like' again". She wasn't going to Torino with a goal to win gold - but to skate programs in her own style. And, ironically, it was then when she got all lvl4 for her spins/spirals, her PCS surged and Shizuka won.
I hope this will eventually happen to Mao, too. I hope that she will stop and think what she loves in skating the most, and find a new motivation. Maybe this season it's too late... But there's still a lot of time before Sochi, and Mao doesn't plan on retiring.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2009
Oscialla, fantasting analysis of Mao's situation and great post!
As to the programmes, last year when I saw the LP to Masquarade, I fell in love with it but then I realized it only worked so well because of the transitions and the fast choreography. Now seeing how Mao struggled this season and chucked most out of the Bells programme in order to concentrate on jumps, I also think there is no way that programme is gonna measure up to anything she's done. I think most ppl felt empty after watching her skate the Bells LP even with clean jumps is cos the programme is now only a shadow of what it was. I think it's important at this point that she gets her confidence back but going out with these programmes, which required so much work when the jumps were becoming problems, was not a great strategy indeed.
As to the programmes, last year when I saw the LP to Masquarade, I fell in love with it but then I realized it only worked so well because of the transitions and the fast choreography. Now seeing how Mao struggled this season and chucked most out of the Bells programme in order to concentrate on jumps, I also think there is no way that programme is gonna measure up to anything she's done. I think most ppl felt empty after watching her skate the Bells LP even with clean jumps is cos the programme is now only a shadow of what it was. I think it's important at this point that she gets her confidence back but going out with these programmes, which required so much work when the jumps were becoming problems, was not a great strategy indeed.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Thanks Oscilla, for the great analysis. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I don't don't know if Mao should move to Morozov if he opens up if Miki quits after Vancover, it would be worth a try, but I don't see he leaving Japan for New Jersey. I think that Mao should have plenty of motivation now, trailing yu-na and arguably her own countrymen (or should I say coutrywomen) for the olympic gold. But motivation can't do it all. I thought that the Mao/Tat partnership would be legendary, but in fact it has been disastrous. I was watching some old videos of her and was surprised at how delightful she used to be and the technical difficulty in her programs.
Bring back Artunian!
Bring back Artunian!
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2009
I think this is more of a solution than Morozov...
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
I agree:agree:. Many people think Miki should leave Morozov and I see where they are coming from. Another logical choice would be Frank Carol, but it seems like he already has a whole lot of students.
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and this is my first post
I have been a fan of Mao Asada ever since I saw her Nutcracker program. She seems to have some problems recently and her programs are not that exciting but I will still be rooting for her at the Olympics. I don't know why I prefer her over Yuna, especially since I loved Michelle Kwan's skating and I feel Yuna is more similar to Kwan than Asada. Maybe it's just that Mao has more of the cute factor ^^. I kinda like that she acts younger than her age cause that's what makes her charming.
I have been a fan of Mao Asada ever since I saw her Nutcracker program. She seems to have some problems recently and her programs are not that exciting but I will still be rooting for her at the Olympics. I don't know why I prefer her over Yuna, especially since I loved Michelle Kwan's skating and I feel Yuna is more similar to Kwan than Asada. Maybe it's just that Mao has more of the cute factor ^^. I kinda like that she acts younger than her age cause that's what makes her charming.
