Will Mao make the Oly team?

[janetfan]

Actually GPF mattered a lot to JP skaters this year b/c the top finisher got a spot on the Oly team.

So if Mao could've gone & placed higher than Miki & Akiko, she would've locked her spot on the team.

I don't want to remember her for failure.

Miki tried her 4S in Torino, but nobody remembers that. Everyone remembers Sasha's SP, Irina v. Sasha & Arakawa's winning performance (LP) which gave Japan its 1st OGM in ladies' figure skating. That's the kind of stuff that makes history, not hanging onto a jump that's not really working for you anymore.

I adore Mao, and I hope she can come back strong with or without 3As.

 

[schiele]

Actually GPF mattered a lot to JP skaters this year b/c the top finisher got a spot on the Oly team.

So if Mao could've gone & placed higher than Miki & Akiko, she would've locked her spot on the team.

I don't want to remember her for failure.

Miki tried her 4S in Torino, but nobody remembers that. Everyone remembers Sasha's SP, Irina v. Sasha & Arakawa's winning performance (LP) which gave Japan its 1st OGM in ladies' figure skating. That's the kind of stuff that makes history, not hanging onto a jump that's not really working for you anymore.

I adore Mao, and I hope she can come back strong with or without 3As.

I still don't see anything so terribly wrong with taking a different route and taking subtantial risks. Substantial risks can also bring in substantial rewards.. And if she bombs like everyone expects her to, she can still try her luck in 2014 (given that she doesn't injure herself).. And if all fails, she can still be a memorable skater among others who failed to bring home that medal.
I also wish Mao will be on top but I can appreciate what she's trying to do.. History is not written with cowards but risk takers..
Btw, whenever Ando is mentioned, the first thing most ppl say about her is that she's the girl who landed a quad in competition..

 

[janetfan]

History is not written with cowards but risk takers..
Btw, whenever Ando is mentioned, the first thing most ppl say about her is that she's the girl who landed a quad in competition..

Somehow your thought feels inapproprite to me. I don't give Mao any credit at all for "bravery."
She is a wonderful skater and I think most of her fans and skating fans in general appreciate her talent and like what she can bring to the ice,

Splats, loss of confidence and failure to reach your potential hardly seems what anybody wants to be remembered for.

Of course it is Mao's choice how she wants to present herself but "triple axle girl" is not how I will remember Mao. There is so much more to skating than one jump - and it has always been Mao's tremendous skating skills that stand out for me.

 

[silverlake22]

Of course it is Mao's choice how she wants to present herself but "triple axle girl" is not how I will remember Mao. There is so much more to skating than one jump - and it has always been Mao's tremendous skating skills that stand out for me.

I agree. It's actually kind of sad because now that Mao is focusing on the 3A so much, I feel like her other jumps have suffered a lot. Her flip and loop combinations look kind of sloppy and she's abandoned her 3-3s. She used to have such a nice lutz too and now she never even attempts it . I also miss bubbly, happy Mao who had elegant, light programs, not all this heavy russian music she's using now. She just seems depressed or distracted this season and it's a shame to see. She used to be one of my favorite skaters and now it looks as though Yuna has left her in the dust

 

[schiele]

Somehow your thought feels inapproprite to me. I don't give Mao any credit at all for "bravery."
She is a wonderful skater and I think most of her fans and skating fans in general appreciate her talent and like what she can bring to the ice,

Splats, loss of confidence and failure to reach your potential hardly seems what anybody wants to be remembered for.

Of course it is Mao's choice how she wants to present herself but "triple axle girl" is not how I will remember Mao. There is so much more to skating than one jump - and it has always been Mao's tremendous skating skills that stand out for me.

Janetfan, Im not saying I dont agree with your points but the amount of mockery Mao has received for sticking to her current plan is just too much ( Im not talking about GS specifically ). I also want 2007 Mao back but I think if she can still pull thru and skate those programmes to potential with 3 As, it'll be magnificient and magical.

 

[Nadia01]

I still don't see anything so terribly wrong with taking a different route and taking subtantial risks. Substantial risks can also bring in substantial rewards.. And if she bombs like everyone expects her to, she can still try her luck in 2014 (given that she doesn't injure herself).. And if all fails, she can still be a memorable skater among others who failed to bring home that medal.
I also wish Mao will be on top but I can appreciate what she's trying to do.. History is not written with cowards but risk takers..
Btw, whenever Ando is mentioned, the first thing most ppl say about her is that she's the girl who landed a quad in competition..

Because Ando was the first to land it in a competition. But nobody says, "Wasn't it awesome how Ando tried her quad in Torino but ended up landing on her butt?" They just say, "Ando didn't deliver. Disappointing."

Unlike Miki who made history by being the first, Mao is NOT the first woman to land 3A. She's not even the first Japanese woman to land 3A. So where's the history being written here? Nobody's even going to remember her as 'Miss Triple Axel'. Not like Midori Ito who's been famous for her beautiful 3As and actually landed them in big competitions under a lot of pressure.

I'm not sure what you mean by "cowards" either. I don't think that other skaters' jump layouts are "cowardly". They're all doing difficult elements that they're fairly sure about, but you never know then you're skating if you're going to nail them all or not.

 

[janetfan]

Janetfan, Im not saying I dont agree with your points but the amount of mockery Mao has received for sticking to her current plan is just too much ( Im not talking about GS specifically ). I also want 2007 Mao back but I think if she can still pull thru and skate those programmes to potential with 3 As, it'll be magnificient and magical.

OK, I think you make a good points here.
Another skater - Sasha - has also been charactereized as an "if" skater.

"If she is as good as before," "if she can get her jumps back," and so forth.

I don't recall seeing much mocking of Mao at GS and she seems to be very well thought of here. But I think it is for the reasons I mentioned and not so much about her 3A's.

"If" Mao can skate two clean programs in Vancouver she will win either the Gold or Silver medal.

"If" Sasha can skate like she did in 2006 she will win US Natls in a romp.

"If" can feel very tricky when it comes to skating. "If" Tomas could skate two clean programs would he ever miss a podium?

Personally, I think Mao might have been better off "if" she stuck it out with Arutunian, or "if" she actually stayed in Russia full time to train with Tat.

And most definitely "if" she had a strong coach running her training sessions.

I could be wrong and did say Mao is so talented I would never underestimate her. I think we do need alot of "ifs" when considering Mao right now. Not sure "if" that is a such good thing.

 

[schiele]

OK, I think you make a good points here.
Another skater - Sasha - has also been charactereized as an "if" skater.

"If she is as good as before," "if she can get her jumps back," and so forth.

I don't recall seeing much mocking of Mao at GS and she seems to be very well thought of here. But I think it is for the reasons I mentioned and not so much about her 3A's.

"If" Mao can skate two clean programs in Vancouver she will win either the Gold or Silver medal.

"If" Sasha can skate like she did in 2006 she will win US Natls in a romp.

"If" can feel very tricky when it comes to skating. "If" Tomas could skate two clean programs would he ever miss a podium?

Personally, I think Mao might have been better off "if" she stuck it out with Arutunian, or "if" she actually stayed in Russia full time to train with Tat.

And most definitely "if" she had a strong coach running her training sessions.

I could be wrong and did say Mao is so talented I would never underestimate her. I think we do need alot of "ifs" when considering Mao right now. Not sure "if" that is a such good thing.

Well, we've been getting more and more "if"s concerning Mao after 2008. Although I agree with some that the obsession with 3A has put her under immense pressure, I think the underlying problems are not the 3A. After all, she has been landing them consistently in practice and in most competitions, even in 2009 (well with the exception of 2nd 3A in most LPs). In fact, despite the tendency to pre-rotation, her 3A was still one of the most technically sound jumps she had.
I think the problems run deeper as Janetfan you mentioned in your post. But since Mao does not seem to be willing (or did) to do anything about them, I think the best chance she has after this point in such a short time is in fact the 3As. And I'm almost 100% that "if" she succeeds, she wont be just an OG medalist, she will be remembered with more acclaim. Naively along the lines of "Oh Mao, that wonderful japanese skater who landed all those 3 axels in OC".. Im certain she will stant out.. Like Kurt the footwork master, Candeloro the backflip jumper or character skater, Irina the jump machine (like it or not), Goebel the Quad King etc etc..
By coward, I certainly do not attack other skaters, what I meant was it would be cowardly for Mao to go back to a totally different jump layout with a lot less risky elements (which may not work for her anyway after this point) because everybody is criticizing her and what she's trying to do..

 

[Nadia01]

By coward, I certainly do not attack other skaters, what I meant was it would be cowardly for Mao to go back to a totally different jump layout with a lot less risky elements (which may not work for her anyway after this point) because everybody is criticizing her and what she's trying to do..

Does it make Mao cowardly then b/c although she's not changing her jump layout, she mentioned that she plans to dumb down her transitions to make jumping easier? Which would then lessen the risk of all her elements. (it's the complex transitions in and out of jumps and so on that can make them even more difficult...)

I don't think it's a matter of courage or lack thereof. I think it's just a matter of strategy and highlighting what she's good at.

 

[silverlake22]

And I'm almost 100% that "if" she succeeds, she wont be just an OG medalist, she will be remembered with more acclaim.

Um. Yuna Kim? Even if Mao lands her 3 3As and goes clean, if Yuna hits her 3-3 in the short and long and her 2a-3t in the long she will win. Yuna is just much better than Mao. I mean, Mao's great, but the fact that Yuna doesn't have a triple axel and beats her most of the time is saying something. Has Mao ever gotten a 210 without doing a triple flip? No. Her highest score ever was a 201 at the World Team Trophy where she had the SOHL, hit all her jumps, and there was no pressure. If Yuna does a repeat of TEB and hits her 3flip, her score will be 215 if not 220.

That being said, if Mao is on at the Olympics, she's a shoe-in for the silver

 

[ehdtkqorl123]

I THINK JSF will do everything (even changing rules) and eventually send Mao to Oly since they don't want a loooooot of sponsors of Mao to be disappointed and draw their financial assistance from figure skating. Even though Miki seems doing better than Mao, still Mao is like a symbol of figure skating currently in Japan.

 

[silverlake22]

I THINK JSF will do everything (even changing rules) and eventually send Mao to Oly since they don't want a loooooot of sponsors of Mao to be disappointed and draw their financial assistance from figure skating. Even though Miki seems doing better than Mao, still Mao is like a symbol of figure skating currently in Japan.

I would agree with you there. Both Mao and Miki have soo much potential to be great, but even Miki this season has been underwhelming. It's easy to forget because she won both her GP events and came in 2nd at the final, but she has yet to do her 3lz-3lo and 2a-3t in competition this season. She's also had some uncharacteristic falls this season. I hope it just means that she's peaking at the right time, same goes for Mao. I would love to see a Yuna-Miki-Mao podium at the Olympics this year! If all are at their best I would imagine Mao would edge out Miki for the silver, but with her risky program it's all up in the air

 

[janetfan]

I would agree with you there. Both Mao and Miki have soo much potential to be great, but even Miki this season has been underwhelming. It's easy to forget because she won both her GP events and came in 2nd at the final, but she has yet to do her 3lz-3lo and 2a-3t in competition this season. She's also had some uncharacteristic falls this season. I hope it just means that she's peaking at the right time, same goes for Mao. I would love to see a Yuna-Miki-Mao podium at the Olympics this year! If all are at their best I would imagine Mao would edge out Miki for the silver, but with her risky program it's all up in the air

If only it were that easy we wouldn't have to hold the competition.

What if Joannie hits another 70 in her SP and either Miki or Mao have a poor SP?
Joannie could go into the LP with a 10-15 point lead.

Another skater who could surprise us is Caro. When she is on she scores very high in the SP. Somehow I don't picture her with two clean skates though.

Akiko or Rachael could surprise us and the judges could surprise us more by giving Akiko better marks if she skates well.

 

[inside edge]

Because Ando was the first to land it in a competition. But nobody says, "Wasn't it awesome how Ando tried her quad in Torino but ended up landing on her butt?" They just say, "Ando didn't deliver. Disappointing."

Unlike Miki who made history by being the first, Mao is NOT the first woman to land 3A. She's not even the first Japanese woman to land 3A. So where's the history being written here? Nobody's even going to remember her as 'Miss Triple Axel'. Not like Midori Ito who's been famous for her beautiful 3As and actually landed them in big competitions under a lot of pressure.

I'm not sure what you mean by "cowards" either. I don't think that other skaters' jump layouts are "cowardly". They're all doing difficult elements that they're fairly sure about, but you never know then you're skating if you're going to nail them all or not.

:yes:

 

[silverlake22]

If only it were that easy we wouldn't have to hold the competition.

What if Joannie hits another 70 in her SP and either Miki or Mao have a poor SP?
Joannie could go into the LP with a 10-15 point lead.

Another skater who could surprise us is Caro. When she is on she scores very high in the SP. Somehow I don't picture her with two clean skates though.

Akiko or Rachael could surprise us and the judges could surprise us more by giving Akiko better marks if she skates well.

All very good and plausible points. In terms of talent though, I'm sure Yuna, Miki, Mao have the most natural ability

 

[Tinymavy15]

I think that Mao's bad start to the season was bad luck more than anything. She got two GP assignments back to back, the first one up against her rival and world champ yu-na Kim. She has had 3 months to straighten out her problems while yu-na skated well in Paris but has gotten progressevly worse. Sure she is still undefeated, but she is now beatale. Entering the olympics as the overwhelming favorite in her quasi home country, things could get interesting.

 

[Nadia01]

I think that Mao's bad start to the season was bad luck more than anything. She got two GP assignments back to back, the first one up against her rival and world champ yu-na Kim. She has had 3 months to straighten out her problems while yu-na skated well in Paris but has gotten progressevly worse. Sure she is still undefeated, but she is now beatale. Entering the olympics as the overwhelming favorite in her quasi home country, things could get interesting.

We'll know for sure on Christmas, no?

 

[janetfan]

I think that Mao's bad start to the season was bad luck more than anything. She got two GP assignments back to back, the first one up against her rival and world champ yu-na Kim. She has had 3 months to straighten out her problems while yu-na skated well in Paris but has gotten progressevly worse. Sure she is still undefeated, but she is now beatale. Entering the olympics as the overwhelming favorite in her quasi home country, things could get interesting.

I agree with the spirit of your post but....... "bad luck?"

I wonder if ....."bad judgement" could have caused some of Mao's early season problems. I read that the JSF wanted the back to back GP assignments even though Tat was against it.

Thinking about Mao training without a top coach, insisting on three 3A's, choosing such dark music and even the comical dress .....

Seems to me Mao and/or her advisors have made a few questionable decisions. I don't think "luck" was necessarily the key factor or cause of her early season failures.

But who knows, maybe Mao will skate great in Vancouver and all of her early season problems will be forgotten.

 

[schiele]

But who knows, maybe Mao will skate great in Vancouver and all of her early season problems will be forgotten.

Amen to that...
Just came across the training vid of Mao posted on FSU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2_BLcHQ6zs
Well, in practice her 3As look good as usual but we can't know if her confidence is actually back.
I guess whatever happens in Vancouver, if Mao decides to stay on after it, she must make some important changes overall.

 

[janetfan]

Amen to that...
Just came across the training vid of Mao posted on FSU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2_BLcHQ6zs
Well, in practice her 3As look good as usual but we can't know if her confidence is actually back.
I guess whatever happens in Vancouver, if Mao decides to stay on after it, she must make some important changes overall.

Hmmm.....maybe this sounds silly - but watching Mao do the first 3A looked great. On the second one, her doom music is playing and she pops the 3A.

Is this dark and dreary music causing Mao's problems?