Will Mao make the Oly team?

[mylastduchess]

Mao also finished off-podium at WC. Did poorly at JO. So it's not just TEB and Rostelecom.


You said she should go b/c you believe in her, regardless of how she places. There are people who are rooting for whoever does the best next week, not necessarily Mao or whoever is their favorite. It is unfair to rob other skaters of their chance to shine just because you think Mao is the most talented.

No matter how talented someone is, if she can't display that talent, then she shouldn't be able to go. This is a once in a life opportunity, something that should be earned, not given.

Why are people making a huge hooplah about Mao

Mao has a 2nd place finish at TEB landing only 1 3A, she had a meltdown at Russia. Okay Now lets look at Nakano 1 Bronze, and Suguri has no podium finish at all. Lets see which do you think they will send to Olympics based on those results?

I mean really there are only 5 skaters who regularly score in the 7's or higher in PCS for Ladies and has a shot at the podium.. Yu-na, Miki, Caro, Joannie, and Mao... and quite frankly Mao has the same shot a the podium as Caro or Joannie has cause those two aren't exactly what you call "consistant" either.

Now would people post the same for Joannie who had already 3 bad skates this season? So if she bombs at nationals and places 3rd would people question if she deserves an Olympic spot or not?

and please I don't even want to hear about Mao reaching her peak or bieng compared to Miessner.

 

[mylastduchess]

I don't think Mao can land THREE 3As. 3A isn't her strong jump anymore, and she should focus on other jumps that she can land more consistently.

If you consider than Mao can't do 3A consistently or 3Lz, that leaves her with like...3F, 3L, 3S and 3T...? But as you said, she abandoned 3/3, so she has to make do with 3/2 assuming that she doesn't get URs / DGs

well she could always try Yu-na's strategy of 3 2A in the long... shes good at that atleast

 

[sorcerer]

Let's see it case by case. This is what the JSF say SHOULD turn out to be.

If Mao wins Nats, she'll automatically go to Olys.

If Mao gets on the podium she'll fill 2 of 3 elements of JSF criteria #3.
3 elements of criteria #3 are:
Podium finishers at Nats.
GP Finalists = Miki and Akiko.
Top 3 Japanese ISU rankers = Mao, Miki, Akiko.
-- If it's Miki's win with Mao on podium, the only skater left who can surpass in the number of fulfilled criteria is Akiko, so Mao will go to Olys with Miki and Akiko.
-- If it's Akiko's win with Mao on podium, no skater left can surpass Mao in this arithmetic so she will go with Miki and Akiko.
-- If it's Yukari's or Fumie's win, with Mao on podium and Akiko off, it'll be tie-breaking between Mao and Akiko, so Mao will go because she's the symbol athlete for JOC, it will be Miki, Yukari/Fumie, and Mao.
-- If it's Yukari's or Fumie's win, with Mao and Akiko on podium (Miki off), it SHOULD be Akiko going, having fulfilled more, especially when Akiko is 2nd and Mao 3rd, which makes it Miki, Yukari/Fumie, and Akiko. Mao not in the team, criteria-wise. There'll be disputes in this case, though.

If Mao ends 4th:
If the podium is Miki-Akiko-Yukari/Fumie or Akiko-Miki-Yukari/Fumie, it'll be tie-breaking with only one criterion fulfilled between Mao and Yukari/Fumie, so Mao will go because she's the symbol athlete for JOC and not doing disasterously, it will be Miki, Akiko, and Mao.
If the podium is like Miki-Yukari/Fumie-Akiko or Akiko-Yukari/Fumie-Miki, it'll still be tie-breaking between Mao and Yukari/Fumie with only one criterion fulfilled, so Mao will go because she's the symbol athlete for JOC and not doing disasterously, it will be Miki, Akiko, and Mao. But probabaly there'll be disputes.
If the podium is like Yukari/Fumie-Akiko-Miki, it'll be this three and Mao won't go. (Criteria-wise.)
If the podium is like Yukari-Fumie-Akiko/Miki with Mao 4th Mao won't go criteria-wise.

If Mao ends 5th or lower .... though not probable ... mostly the same as the case where Mao ends 4th, except where there's a tie in which this time Mao will be weaker.

There might be other rare possibilities, but each should be figured out in a similar way.
BTW these are when there are no politics.

 

[Nadia01]

well she could always try Yu-na's strategy of 3 2A in the long... shes good at that atleast

I'd rather see a beautifully landed jump than a botched attempt.

 

[hurrah]

I'd rather see a beautifully landed jump than a botched attempt.

I wonder if Yuna's double axel can be considered a TRUE double axel? I think a true double axel should be one where the skater steps into the jump. Yuna just sort of throws herself into the double axel jump without crouching down or stepping into it, and so she tends to telegraph her axel jumps.

It's lucky such poor technique isn't downgraded in COP, even the more so because this (poor) technique actually enables Yuna to do an ina bauer before her double axel, which gets bonus points.

 

[Nadia01]

I wonder if Yuna's double axel can be considered a TRUE double axel? I think a true double axel should be one where the skater steps into the jump. Yuna just sort of throws herself into the double axel jump without crouching down or stepping into it, and so she tends to telegraph her axel jumps.

It's lucky such poor technique isn't downgraded in COP, even the more so because this (poor) technique actually enables Yuna to do an ina bauer before her double axel, which gets bonus points.

What?!

I've never seen anywhere that a skater must CROUCH DOWN / STEP INTO any kind of axel jumps.

Of course maybe it's that I'm not very knowledgeable about the fine mechanics of axel execution. Can someone explain this?

I'm not sure if it is POOR technique that enables Yuna to do an IB before 2A because from what I heard from American commentators such as Dick Button, IB to 2A is VERY difficult. So I imagine that it means maybe Yuna is very talented at that particular jump and/or her technique is very good.

 

[antmanb]

I wonder if Yuna's double axel can be considered a TRUE double axel? I think a true double axel should be one where the skater steps into the jump. Yuna just sort of throws herself into the double axel jump without crouching down or stepping into it, and so she tends to telegraph her axel jumps.

It's lucky such poor technique isn't downgraded in COP, even the more so because this (poor) technique actually enables Yuna to do an ina bauer before her double axel, which gets bonus points.

That is absolute rubbish! If you crouch while performing any figure skating element you are doing it wrong.

What?!

I've never seen anywhere that a skater must CROUCH DOWN / STEP INTO any kind of axel jumps.

Of course maybe it's that I'm not very knowledgeable about the fine mechanics of axel execution. Can someone explain this?

I'm not sure if it is POOR technique that enables Yuna to do an IB before 2A because from what I heard from American commentators such as Dick Button, IB to 2A is VERY difficult. So I imagine that it means maybe Yuna is very talented at that particular jump and/or her technique is very good.

I'm guessing the poster is a rabid uber, no guesses which skater they're an uber off

Any linking element into a a double axel, like spread eagle or ina bauer is extremely difficult.

As i said earlier any crouching in the set up to jumps is considered extremely poor technique. Kevin Van De Perren has a rather hunched-back triple axel entrance. I also think Oda in his youth had quite a hunched back going into his triple axel but it has gotten slightly better of late.

Axels tend to be jumped in one of two ways, i'll use male skaters to illustrate since that might keep some rabids at bay.

The first style is like Plushenko does his triple axel: from the LFO take edge, he will drive his right knee up really up really high with teh foot directly underneath the knee (the step up) lifts the rest of his body up there on the jump while doing the first half turn, hits the tight backspin position at the top of the jump and does the other three from the top of the jump down for the landing.

The second style is more like Joubert - the step up is missing, there is a knee drive but it isn't as high as the other method and usually the free leg looks almost like it's trailing - more rotation is done on the way up to the top of the jump where he then transfers the weight across to the landing side and hits the backspin position, finishes the rotation and then lands back down.

Lysacek has a poor version of the way Joubert does it by skidding the take off edge. I use Joubert as my example for the second style because there is no question that while he doesn't dtep up into the jump he takes of clean and gets the rotation without problems.

Ant

 

[Nadia01]

That is absolute rubbish! If you crouch while performing any figure skating element you are doing it wrong.



I'm guessing the poster is a rabid uber, no guesses which skater they're an uber off

Any linking element into a a double axel, like spread eagle or ina bauer is extremely difficult.

As i said earlier any crouching in the set up to jumps is considered extremely poor technique. Kevin Van De Perren has a rather hunched-back triple axel entrance. I also think Oda in his youth had quite a hunched back going into his triple axel but it has gotten slightly better of late.

Axels tend to be jumped in one of two ways, i'll use male skaters to illustrate since that might keep some rabids at bay.

The first style is like Plushenko does his triple axel: from the LFO take edge, he will drive his right knee up really up really high with teh foot directly underneath the knee (the step up) lifts the rest of his body up there on the jump while doing the first half turn, hits the tight backspin position at the top of the jump and does the other three from the top of the jump down for the landing.

The second style is more like Joubert - the step up is missing, there is a knee drive but it isn't as high as the other method and usually the free leg looks almost like it's trailing - more rotation is done on the way up to the top of the jump where he then transfers the weight across to the landing side and hits the backspin position, finishes the rotation and then lands back down.

Lysacek has a poor version of the way Joubert does it by skidding the take off edge. I use Joubert as my example for the second style because there is no question that while he doesn't dtep up into the jump he takes of clean and gets the rotation without problems.

Ant

Thanks for your explanation, Ant. I'll review clips of the skaters you've mentioned. I also thought skating crouched = bad, but wasn't sure if people were really supposed to be portraying Hunchback of Notre Dame to do axel jumps or not. (No sarcasm intended; I just found it hard to believe but thought maybe I didn't know enough about it to know for sure)

 

[hurrah]

Thanks for your explanation, Ant. I'll review clips of the skaters you've mentioned. I also thought skating crouched = bad, but wasn't sure if people were really supposed to be portraying Hunchback of Notre Dame to do axel jumps or not. (No sarcasm intended; I just found it hard to believe but thought maybe I didn't know enough about it to know for sure)

Pardon me for the unfortunate choice of words. However, just to clarify, when I said 'crouch', I wasn't thinking 'hunch down'. I was thinking more in the lines of crouching down using deep knees. I hope that's better choice of words.

So, by the way, which is usually considered better technique? Plushenko's or Joubert's? Is Joubert's technique only acceptable only so far as he still does the
rotations or is it really the case that both techniques are considered equally good?

 

[silverlake22]

and please I don't even want to hear about Mao reaching her peak or bieng compared to Miessner.

Why can't she be compared to Meissner? It seems what's happening to her is what happened to meissner, first the triple axel is lost as a consistent jump, then the 3-3s are abandoned, then the downgrades on other jumps come. In my mind, they are both great skaters who continue to be great but they both peaked when they were 15-16

 

[Phoenix347]

I still think Mao will go to the Olympics unless she has a total meltdown at Japan nationals. You know like finish lower than 4th. I think she'll do just fine at the nationals. Olympics would be missing out on something without her presence.

 

[mylastduchess]

Why can't she be compared to Meissner? It seems what's happening to her is what happened to meissner, first the triple axel is lost as a consistent jump, then the 3-3s are abandoned, then the downgrades on other jumps come. In my mind, they are both great skaters who continue to be great but they both peaked when they were 15-16

are you serious? really are you serious? Meissner freaking landed 1 3A in her life. Mao just made history last year by landing 2 in the same program. Okay so shes inconsistent at her 3A almost all the other ladies doesn't even try it. and not even Miki is trying a 3/3 early this season.

Mao freakin won worlds when she was 17, won the GPF last year at 18 and still is a podium threat, Miessner isn't...simple as that

 

[Kwanford Wife]

are you serious? really are you serious? Meissner freaking landed 1 3A in her life. Mao just made history last year by landing 2 in the same program. Okay so shes inconsistent at her 3A almost all the other ladies doesn't even try it. and not even Miki is trying a 3/3 early this season.

Mao freakin won worlds when she was 17, won the GPF last year at 18 and still is a podium threat, Miessner isn't...simple as that

Miessner is injured, so we can't say what she could've pulled off this year. Also I do believe you can make the case of comparing Mao and Kimmie... both were phenoms who burst onto the sceen with exciting results but the puberty monster threw both off their ability to jump. It happens. I'm not sure why that is such a big stretch.

And Janetfan is absolutly right... Kimmie was younger and actually had a tougher program... it just didn't have the 3axle... but wow... what a skate!!

Simma down now...

 

[janetfan]

Mao freakin won worlds when she was 17, won the GPF last year at 18 and still is a podium threat, Miessner isn't...simple as that

Kimmie won Worlds when she was.....gasp......16

I hope Mao does well at Natls after bombing the first half of this season. She is a great and talented skater and I would never count her out.

I also hope Kimmie is recovering well from her injury.

 

[mylastduchess]

Miessner is injured, so we can't say what she could've pulled off this year. Also I do believe you can make the case of comparing Mao and Kimmie... both were phenoms who burst onto the sceen with exciting results but the puberty monster threw both off their ability to jump. It happens. I'm not sure why that is such a big stretch.

And Janetfan is absolutly right... Kimmie was younger and actually had a tougher program... it just didn't have the 3axle... but wow... what a skate!!

Simma down now...

???

and I thought it was Mao's flutz thats causing her problems... and I find it hard to believe that Mao just hit puberty at 19

 

[Barb]

ok, first, I don´t think that we should to say when someone has picked until her carrera finish. Shizuka is skating better than before 06
Kimmie Meissner body changed a lot, then if Mao problems are about her body,all her problems would started 3 o 4 years ago.
in 08 she was WC, and 09 she was GPF gold medalist, she was 4 in Worlds 09 because her 3lutz in sp that she was fixing, and her 3ax in lp that is always a risk, she even land another, and a ur:scowlI don´t remember which jump) I think. her main problem in this worlds was her attitude in her lp, it was a boring program, but Mao was unmotived and she is not a good actress:disapp:.

and if Mao bomb at nat and they decide send her to oly over Akiko, Fumie or Yukari is fair because she has demostrated better results that they, Akiko had a bad skate in Skate Canada, Yukari didn´t the gpf like Mao, same Fumie, and Mao has been WJC, WC, 2GOLD and 2 SILVER GPF, SILVER WORLD, 1 SILVER NAT, 3 GOLD NAT IN A ROW, what has done Akiko, Yukari or Fumie?

If JF want only a medal silver or bronze they have to Miki, Morozov said they will play safe, he critized:sheesh: to Mao and Daisuke for the risk programs, then the only japanese person that can beat Yuna is Mao:agree:

sorry my english

 

[Barb]

I want to say too that I think the way the usa fed choose their team is a mess, how you can choose for one competition, look to Alissa the last year.

 

[silverlake22]

???

and I thought it was Mao's flutz thats causing her problems... and I find it hard to believe that Mao just hit puberty at 19

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true. She looks like she's gotten a few inches taller very recently meaning she is probably still growing a lot. Isn't she like 5'6 or 5'7 now?

 

[schiele]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true. She looks like she's gotten a few inches taller very recently meaning she is probably still growing a lot. Isn't she like 5'6 or 5'7 now?

No way, she's not that much taller than Yuna and Yuna is 5'4 I believe.

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=yuna+kim&init=quick#/photo.php?pid=2721748&id=53417067377

 

[Nadia01]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true. She looks like she's gotten a few inches taller very recently meaning she is probably still growing a lot. Isn't she like 5'6 or 5'7 now?

There's no way she's that tall.

5-7 is about 168cm. That's SUPER TALL for female skaters. You rarely see girls that tall in Japan anyway.