Your top ten ladies of all time?

[seafan]

I'm only listing names from when I started watching the sport, both Olympic eligible and professional skating, back in 1992.

In no particular order:

Michelle Kwan
Katarina Witt
Midori Ito
Kristi Yamaguchi
Joannie Rochette
Yuka Sato
Maria Butyrskaya
Yu-Na Kim
Nicole Bobek
Carolina Kostner
Josee Chouinard (so, I cheated and named 11! )

Granted, some of these skaters may not have the best competitive track records, but I always found them interesting and exciting in their own unique ways and I either loved the majority of their programs, their athleticism, or their presentation.

I am very pleased that Josee has been mentioned. She remains one of my all time favorites. If she had found consistency with her jumps, she would have been a multiple medalist at Worlds. My list is very similar to yours and I also began following skating in 1992. At any given moment my top ten ladies skaters would be among this group:

Kristi Yamaguchi
Michelle Kwan
Josee Chouinard
Midori Ito
Joannie Rochette
Yuka Sato
Lu Chen
Maria Butyrskaya
Yu-Na Kim
Roz Sumners (especially as a pro)
Alissa Czizny

 

[rtureck]

Do not pretend you aren't a Mao-bot.

what Mao bot. I listed her in my top 10, I listed many above her in my list even thugh she made my top 10. I haven't made uber bot fan statements like "gold will always be remember and silver will be forgotten." Objectively what have I said about Mao that is nor correct tht she made hisotry. The only subjective statement I made about her is that I think she is the most etheral skater.

 

[rtureck]

Geez. Chill, will you? You don't have to trample all over another skater to defend your favorite. I think very few people will remember Yu-na for setting a specific number of world records. They will, however, remember that she set consecutive world records, dominating the sport for two years with a strong combination of athleticism and artistry, to win the OGM as the first favorite to do so in a very long time. They won't remember the 228, but they will remember that Yu-na won with TWO clean, memorable programs, a feat very few have accomplished. Everyone here gives credit to Mao for her feat. Why not also give Yu-na credit where due? It's not like anyone's trying to make you name Yu-na your all time favorite.

Oh geez will you chill, I recognize her achievement as winning gold fair and square. In fact she makes my top 15, exactly #15. I dare you to prove that I trample on any skater when I was making my case for my top 10. OTOH a Yuna uber fan trampled on all olympic silver medalist to make her /his case of YuNa's greatness

 

[rtureck]

Winning gold at 4cc, world championship, two grandprix series, grandprix final, and olympics in consecutive manner will be difficult to achieve in a while as well. Remember, just because yuna won gold she isn't automatically = tara, sarah, arakawa - sames goes with mao. as a long time kween-uber fan, I would feel almost offended if someone said mao's case is equal to that of Michelle. Mao proved herself to be a strong competitor at this olys, but I didn't see the grace and maturity at the level of michelle when she won silver.

Lets see last time someone di d that was Tara in 1998, so it took 12 years to break that record. BTW, 4CC?? I thought most federation at least USA don't send their top guns to 4CC, when did Mk ever competed in 4CC? Last time Midori landed a triple axel , it took 18 years to break, let see how long it will take to break that record. Not sure what you mean by YuNa won gold she isn't automatically = Tara, Sarah, Arakawa. Tara and Arakawa made my top 10, Sarah probably not even top 20, and YuNa my 15

I too love MK, I never said Mao proved herself to be MK. Just IMO she is my top 10 becasue of her history making landing three 3a

 

[rtureck]

yes, but it would be interesting to hear your opinion on why Yuna doesn't make the cut. You say you are unimpressed with her record breaking but it'd it interesting to hear what it is about her skating that doesn't do it for you...

For me, Yuna makes the cut even though her legacy isn't clear yet because of her musicality and the easiness of her skating - even though she is doing such difficult jumps! Dance Macabre is one of the best choreographed SPs I've ever seen and the way Yuna performs the footwork makes my heart pound.

Well it is very subjective, YuNa is my #15, really not that far from top 10. I joined this thread initially to respond to someone who said Mao "forever is in YuNa's shadow", and I don't think that she has ever been under any skater's shadow. I listed my opinion why I have my top 10, this thread did not ask about top 15, if it is a thread about top 15, then YuNa will make the cut. Along the way of discussion, some YuNa uber fan made general statement of "gold will be remember and silver will be forgotten" therefore I was sidetracked a bit.

In general I am not that impressed with marks regardless of 6.0s under the old system or the current COP system. And I am a MK fan, but she impresses me more for her total package and not her total # of 6.0s. IMO marks are only relevant in one given competition, and marks are easily broken.

If Yuna makes the cut for you, good for you. If you think her musicality and ease of skating makes the cut for you good for you. Even though those are more subjective criteria. I used musicality to as a criteirai for Chen Lu too. About ease fo skating, I definitely find Katia is almost second to none, and she is my #!2. IMO Katia is ahead of YuNa in ease of skating, and LuLu is ahead of YuNa in musicality, I guess that is why LuLu is tie for my #10. But this thread is about top 10 best ladies in history, therefore "Legacy " should count, even though you think YuNa's legacy is not that clear yet.

 

[museksk8r]

Lets see last time someone did that was Tara in 1998, so it took 12 years to break that record. BTW, 4CC?? I thought most federation at least USA don't send their top guns to 4CC, when did Mk ever competed in 4CC?

Actually, Tara did not have a full consecutive series of wins in her Olympic season at all. Lipinski lost both of her 1997-1998 season Grand Prix meets, the first she lost to Michelle Kwan at Skate America and the second, she lost to Laetitia Hubert at Trophee Lalique. She then won the Champions Series Final in Kwan's absence due to injury and then lost the National title to Michelle Kwan and skipped out of Worlds after winning the Olympics. That's 2 wins (3 if you count 1997 Worlds), 3 losses and 1 no-show.

 

[rtureck]

Actually, Tara did not have a full consecutive series of wins in her Olympic season at all. Lipinski lost both of her 1997-1998 season Grand Prix meets, the first she lost to Michelle Kwan at Skate America and the second, she lost to Laetitia Hubert at Trophee Lalique. She then won the Champions Series Final in Kwan's absence due to injury and then lost the National title to Michelle Kwan and skipped out of Worlds after winning the Olympics. That's 2 wins, 3 losses and 1 no-show.

Well I don't consider 4 CC and GPF that much of a measure of greatness, at least in terms of contributing to whether a skater makes top 10 iin all time great. So Tara was the last reigning world champ who won an olys gold, I am referring to that. I think Tara did not compete in 4CC or equivalentg either. Of course having a consecutive winning seasons also depend on the good health status of the skater also. It was years after the fact that we found out Tara had kind of a hip injury on and off during her competitive years

 

[#1Kerryfan]

1. Sasha Cohen
2. Sarah Hughes
3. Irina Slutskaya
4. Jenny Kirk
5. Emily Hughes
6. Carolina Kostner
7. Tara Lipinski
8. Peggy Fleming (yeah, she was before I was born, but I like the videos I've seen of her)
9. Fumie Suguri
10. Viktoria Volchkova

 

[christinaskater]

Michelle Kwan
Akiko Suzuki
Yu-Na Kim
Mao Asada
Yuka Sato
Kristi Yamaguchi
Chen Lu
Katarina Witt
Midori Ito
Shizuka Arakawa

 

[Layfan]

Well it is very subjective, YuNa is my #15, really not that far from top 10. I joined this thread initially to respond to someone who said Mao "forever is in YuNa's shadow", and I don't think that she has ever been under any skater's shadow. I listed my opinion why I have my top 10, this thread did not ask about top 15, if it is a thread about top 15, then YuNa will make the cut. Along the way of discussion, some YuNa uber fan made general statement of "gold will be remember and silver will be forgotten" therefore I was sidetracked a bit.

In general I am not that impressed with marks regardless of 6.0s under the old system or the current COP system. And I am a MK fan, but she impresses me more for her total package and not her total # of 6.0s. IMO marks are only relevant in one given competition, and marks are easily broken.

If Yuna makes the cut for you, good for you. If you think her musicality and ease of skating makes the cut for you good for you. Even though those are more subjective criteria. I used musicality to as a criteirai for Chen Lu too. About ease fo skating, I definitely find Katia is almost second to none, and she is my #!2. IMO Katia is ahead of YuNa in ease of skating, and LuLu is ahead of YuNa in musicality, I guess that is why LuLu is tie for my #10. But this thread is about top 10 best ladies in history, therefore "Legacy " should count, even though you think YuNa's legacy is not that clear yet.

not really. the thread says "your" top 10 ladies. if we counted just on legacy than everyone's list would look a lot a like and it'd be more boring. much more interesting to hear who everyone's personal favorites are, even if they never won so much as a world medal. Like some people have listed Alissa Czisny. That's why I was interesting in hearing what is is about Yuna's skating that is so unsatisfying to you than you think 10 ladies are better. I was just interested in your opinion, since you brought it up, that's all.

 

[dlgpffps]

You don't have to be so defensive. When you see stupid comments like "Mao will be forgotten because she's the silver medalist" just ignore. That's what other people do. But you don't have to go on a rant on how Yu-na being just a gold medalist who broke the world record numerous times doesn't really mean much. If you were to say Yu-na doesn't make your top ten because her skating doesn't make you tingle, yeah sure no one would argue. This thread is totally subjective, but that's no reason to demean her accomplishments. If you had just said that her exact score will be forgotten, again, no one would argue, because that's most certainly true, but you're making it seem as if it has no worth at all. Even if you had not meant it, that's still how your reply read to many people.

And about records (since you seem to love them). Yu-na's the first favorite to win the OGM since Tara (if we're to consider her co-favorites with MK). That's 12 years. She's also the first lady to win both the SP and LP since Kristi (a random fact I know). That's 18 years. She is also the first ladies gold medalist to win with two clean programs in 26+ years (I could go up to only Witt in 1984). Oh yeah, and she's the first Korean skater to ever win an Olympic medal, which alone stands as an amazing feat

Well I don't consider 4 CC and GPF that much of a measure of greatness, at least in terms of contributing to whether a skater makes top 10 iin all time great. So Tara was the last reigning world champ who won an olys gold, I am referring to that. I think Tara did not compete in 4CC or equivalentg either. Of course having a consecutive winning seasons also depend on the good health status of the skater also. It was years after the fact that we found out Tara had kind of a hip injury on and off during her competitive years

I think the poster's point was that Yu-na's one of the very few skaters who have won every competition during the Olympic season (so far) -- a comment on her consistency and dominance. And about Tara. Almost all skaters have injuries during their careers. Yu-na had a hip injury right before 2007 worlds, which returned to haunt her right before 2008 worlds, and an ankle injury right before the Olympics. Just saying.

 

[french quarter]

My top five ladies (no particular order):

1. Yu-Na Kim
1. Michelle Kwan
1. Katarina Witt
1. Janet Lynn
1. Peggy Fleming

 

[rtureck]

You don't have to be so defensive. When you see stupid comments like "Mao will be forgotten because she's the silver medalist" just ignore. That's what other people do.

Then lets agree that some ubef YuNa fan are "stupid" when they insult the olys gold medalist (BTW including Brian Orser). Some ppl ignore and some don't so???

But you don't have to go on a rant on how Yu-na being just a gold medalist who broke the world record numerous times doesn't really mean much.

Does not contribute to my criteria for best 10, but if that floats your boat, then make your list.

but that's no reason to demean her accomplishments. If you had just said that her exact score will be forgotten, again, no one would argue, because that's most certainly true, but you're making it seem as if it has no worth at all. Even if you had not meant it, that's still how your reply read to many people.

I absolutely have not demeaned YuNa's accomplishment, I said she won fair and square. So we both agree that marks are easily forgotten. Yeah and for me marks are not critieria for greatness, and that includes the 6.0s marks won by MK, and I am a MK fan. I don't see any MK fans getting upset like you do when I do not use marks as criteria for greatness. And talk about "defensive" ??
I am defending oly silver medalists, not an individual skaters every mark that is above 200. LOL

And about records (since you seem to love them). Yu-na's the first favorite to win the OGM since Tara (if we're to consider her co-favorites with MK). That's 12 years. She's also the first lady to win both the SP and LP since Kristi (a random fact I know). That's 18 years. She is also the first ladies gold medalist to win with two clean programs in 26+ years (I could go up to only Witt in 1984). Oh yeah, and she's the first Korean skater to ever win an Olympic medal, which alone stands as an amazing feat

Oh please go on with more records about YUNa, since super fans do have the most detail to the dot statistics, LOL. Some I do recognize as criteria for greatness, and some I don't, but please go on..... Anyway, about first Korean skater to win OGM, stands alone as an amzaing feat, how does that contribute to her as the best 10 skater ever??? BTW, I have never used ethnicity as criteria for greatness. Anyway at least not when I rank Divakawa.

After all the posts about how unhappy you are about ppl not recognizing YuNa every marks, and competition etc, I don't think you have completed your 10 yet?

 

[rtureck]

not really. the thread says "your" top 10 ladies. if we counted just on legacy than everyone's list would look a lot a like and it'd be more boring. much more interesting to hear who everyone's personal favorites are, even if they never won so much as a world medal. Like some people have listed Alissa Czisny. That's why I was interesting in hearing what is is about Yuna's skating that is so unsatisfying to you than you think 10 ladies are better. I was just interested in your opinion, since you brought it up, that's all.

I agree it is not all about legacy, and in a thread like this ppl will always list their favorites that is why lulu makes my list. Yeah it is fine to see Alissa or Bobek being listed. But then objectively, in my list I do put some skaters higher than my favorites, e.g. Nagasu is my #4 favorite but she does not make my top 20 greatess. Kristi is my #2 favorite, but I rank Ito ahead of her. Sarah Hughes probably makes my top 10 favorite, but in terms of greatness, I list her behind YuNa.

 

[dilodilo]

rtureck,
it is my first comment here and I hope you could realized that you actually made someone post a comment for the first time. Isn't it funny You were the first one, if not the only one, saying 'a certain skater wouldn't even make my top 12'?
Totally unnecessary, and it makes your devotion to Mao look not so good.

Since this is "10 My favorites thread"
1. Katarina Witt
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Peggy Fleming
4. Kristi Yamaguchi
5. Yuna Kim
6. Irina Slutskaya
7. Oksana Baiul
8. Janet Lynn
9. Midori Ito
10. Mao Asada

and Hi Everyone

 

[Layfan]

I agree it is not all about legacy, and in a thread like this ppl will always list their favorites that is why lulu makes my list. Yeah it is fine to see Alissa or Bobek being listed. But then objectively, in my list I do put some skaters higher than my favorites, e.g. Nagasu is my #4 favorite but she does not make my top 20 greatess. Kristi is my #2 favorite, but I rank Ito ahead of her. Sarah Hughes probably makes my top 10 favorite, but in terms of greatness, I list her behind YuNa.

Well, maybe legacy and rep does influence even personal lists... I didn't list Alissa or Mirai but I LOVE their skating... Do I honestly love Irina or Midori's skating better than Alissa or Mirai? Hmmm. Well, so far I'm sticking to yes ...

But i know what you mean.

 

[prettykeys]

Yu-na's the first favorite to win the OGM since Tara (if we're to consider her co-favorites with MK). That's 12 years. She's also the first lady to win both the SP and LP since Kristi (a random fact I know). That's 18 years. She is also the first ladies gold medalist to win with two clean programs in 26+ years (I could go up to only Witt in 1984). Oh yeah, and she's the first Korean skater to ever win an Olympic medal, which alone stands as an amazing feat

I'm pretty sure Michelle Kwan was the favourite to win Oly's in 1998 (even Tara said something somewhere about being pissed off about being "counted out".) Tara was the imcumbent World champ. Kristi was also the World champ in 1992, but the favourite for Oly Gold was Midori Ito.

So I'm going to go with 26+ years since World champ-and-favourite won OGM before YuNa

As far as personal criteria go, I think records and scores are kinda meh. Dominance is one thing, but dominance alone against weak fields isn't that impressive (so lady skaters from decades ago with tons of titles make me zzzzzz). And TBH I don't really care who the first lady to land the double Axel or triple Salchow, etc., was. Those landmarks cause a massive SHRUG from me because they're inevitable; look how far the ladies have come these days, which means it was always possible, and those individuals just got to it first (by being born earlier, into a skating culture.) Yawnnnn.

I'm not ever by YuNa's record-breaking points, because these are very variable between competitions and not really objective measures. It's not like winning the 100-meter dash in 9.68 seconds. What makes YuNa amazing are the circumstances of her success, and how well she performs (as she did at the Olympics.)

I, too, started watching Figure Skating in 1992 and Kristi Yamaguchi was the first skater I was a fan of. But when someone lists her in their top-10 while omitting YuNa Kim, that definitely looks shady to me. :think: I don't tend to regard the opinions/criteria of these individuals very seriously. And anytime someone goes "JMO", "IMO", "good for you for your own opinion, and this is mine", is definitely a strong sign of defensiveness in bias. Nevermind them.

Michelle Kwan, Midori Ito, and Janet Lynn are almost impossible to omit from the list of 10 best ladies, even while allowing for subjectivity. Those three were just too freakin' good at any relevant criteria that must be included in such a discussion.

 

[miki88]

I'm pretty sure Michelle Kwan was the favourite to win Oly's in 1998 (even Tara said something somewhere about being pissed off about being "counted out".) Tara was the imcumbent World champ. Kristi was also the World champ in 1992, but the favourite for Oly Gold was Midori Ito.

So I'm going to go with 26+ years since World champ-and-favourite won OGM before YuNa

As far as personal criteria go, I think records and scores are kinda meh. Dominance is one thing, but dominance alone against weak fields isn't that impressive (so lady skaters from decades ago with tons of titles make me zzzzzz). And TBH I don't really care who the first lady to land the double Axel or triple Salchow, etc., was. Those landmarks cause a massive SHRUG from me because they're inevitable; look how far the ladies have come these days, which means it was always possible, and those individuals just got to it first (by being born earlier, into a skating culture.) Yawnnnn.

I'm not ever by YuNa's record-breaking points, because these are very variable between competitions and not really objective measures. It's not like winning the 100-meter dash in 9.68 seconds. What makes YuNa amazing are the circumstances of her success, and how well she performs (as she did at the Olympics.)

I, too, started watching Figure Skating in 1992 and Kristi Yamaguchi was the first skater I was a fan of. But when someone lists her in their top-10 while omitting YuNa Kim, that definitely looks shady to me. :think: I don't tend to regard the opinions/criteria of these individuals very seriously. And anytime someone goes "JMO", "IMO", "good for you for your own opinion, and this is mine", is definitely a strong sign of defensiveness in bias. Nevermind them.

Michelle Kwan, Midori Ito, and Janet Lynn are almost impossible to omit from the list of 10 best ladies, even while allowing for subjectivity. Those three were just too freakin' good at any relevant criteria that must be included in such a discussion.

Great post Prettykeys :thumbsup: I am glad I included all three ladies in my list~

 

[prettykeys]

Great post Prettykeys :thumbsup: I am glad I included all three ladies in my list~

Oh yeah, you put them in your top 5, which is where I think they belong (teeheheehee). The majority of my list is heavily biased/in favour of modern-day skaters, but I did go back in time to watch Janet Lynn, and her expression and natural, innate sense of skating is quite incredible. It doesn't look rehearsed at all. I can see why Frank Carroll got Michelle to watch videos of her when she was his pupil.

 

[Mathman]

...and Hi Everyone

Hi, and welcome! Post often, post long!

I, too, started watching Figure Skating in 1992 and Kristi Yamaguchi was the first skater I was a fan of.

I think the reason Kristi is so high on many peoples' lists is because of her pro career. She was the unrivaled star of stars on the U.S. pro circuit, back in the glory days when profession skating was something worth being the star of. She was still doing triple Lutzes in pro competitions and show programs right up to the end of her career at age 29.

Plus, she won Dancing with the Stars! Did Sonia Henie ever do that?

I do disagree with you on one point, though. I think credit should be given to the pioneers who were the "first to do something," even if people came along later and -- standing on the shoulders of giants -- did it better.

Madge Syers buffaloed her way into the 1902 (mens) figure skating championship at a time when the idea of ladies competing in sports was so absurd that the ISU didn't even bother to have a rule prohibiting it.

When they told her that ladies couldn't compete because their long skirts made it impossible for the judges to see their feet, Syers cut off her skirt at mid-calf, leading eventually to the modern skating mini-skirt (and the rest is history )

Dick Button invented the technique of "spinning in the air," making possible all triple jumps of the future. True, skaters of later generations have perfected Button's patent. And you could say that if Button had not come up with this technique, others would have.

But they didn't. He did.