Yuna Kim

[coper]

You can read it here: Michelle Kwan's tribute! :agree:

TIME's 100 Most Influential People in the World (2010)

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1984685_1984949_1985220,00.html

And by the way Yuna is second behind Bill Clinton in the Heroes category.

 

[yunasashafan]

Everyone understands this is business. You don't have to keep repeating that as if no one is getting it. The fact of the case is simple and most people in Korean media and and general public who are interested in this topic seem to agree;

IB Sports had a contract with Yuna that anyone in the industry would die for; not only the after-fact sense in which their return on investment for that three year period was at least 200%, but the real number should be much more than that, but because she was already making her name by the time they signed the contract. Again, IB having made an extremely good investment wouldn't have been an issue if they delivered what was expected from an agent. I am not saying this about them as the agent of Yuna, but of any athlete. Their representative work is sloppy at best. Take this from me or news media, I don't care. The news articles about this is easily obtainable if you can read Korean, so if you are interested, do your own research.

As a consumer who buy other people's service, you expect a certain level of quality in the service you pay for, especially when the charge is high. IB is considered by many that they have been way overpaid for the quality of their service. That is one thing; all they are saying is IB has been overcharging Yuna; and then, as Yuna leaves them, IB began all this media circus, spreading rumors about Orser, talking to the media about their deals with Yuna almost everyday and propagating their own takes about her leave, and relating Yuna to their foreseeable lawsuit against a former employee when she has nothing to do with it. IB is doing a damage control in the worst fashion imaginable, at the expense of their former client whom they overcharged. Their course of action for the last one week has left a bad aftertaste in everyone's mouth.

If you still don't get why people are trashing IB hard, try to remember last time you had a bad haircut from a hair stylist. And imagine the stylist goes around the town after your last visit saying he/she didn't do anything wrong and says things about you and your taste in hairdo. If this analogy doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.

Oh God.. we can't move on can we?

If you remember correctly, I was genuinely curious and asking about links to articles with facts from which one could see that IB was not living up to their billing. The response I received was "You don't need articles to show you that".. well, I do. I am not going to take anybody's personal opinion as a fact. And I wouldn't go making such big statements on a forum where members are not dedicated to tracking Yuna's every move, without being willing to at least provide one source to back it up, or say that it's my opinion, not a fact.

I was among the first people to point to IB's fault in the Orser/Mao drama. Go find my post on this, as I am not going to do your research for you. What I am trying to say is IB suing their ex-executive for breach of trust is a common business practice that is not base for calling IB unprofessional. Ask anybody in the industry and you'll see what I mean. Can we at least agree to disagree?

It just seems to me that just a few days ago people were trashing IMG for the Hyundai card show. Suddently it's IB who are the bad guys after Yuna split from them. I am starting to see a pattern that is making me very skeptical about overdramatized "facts." I have been following yunaforum.com for a long time and never heard anybody calling IB THAT unprofessional (not even now actually).

Besides, IB never badmouthed Yuna so your haircut example is irrelevant..

Ok, I am done for real this time..

Congrats Yuna on the Times 100! Very touching tribute by MK

 

[Figure88]

It just seems to me that just a few days ago people were trashing IMG for the Hyundai card show. Suddently it's IB who are the bad guys after Yuna split from them. I am starting to see a pattern that is making me very skeptical about overdramatized "facts...

You're not being entirely fair. IB has nothing to gain from bringing the lawsuit. In short, they will lose. If they were reasonable business people they should stop pursuing this matter, as it would damage their image more than Yuna's. The costs of the lawsuit outweigh any kind of benefit they hope to gain. So, does it make strategic or business sense for them to pursue the suit? No. They are doing so obviously out of malice against Yuna and really nothing else. Their actions are frankly quite embarrassing for such a professional organization.

 

[coper]

I was among the first people to point to IB's fault in the Orser/Mao drama. Go find my post on this, as I am not going to do your research for you. What I am trying to say is IB suing their ex-executive for breach of trust is a common business practice that is not base for calling IB unprofessional. Ask anybody in the industry and you'll see what I mean. Can we at least agree to disagree?

It just seems to me that just a few days ago people were trashing IMG for the Hyundai card show. Suddently it's IB who are the bad guys after Yuna split from them. I am starting to see a pattern that is making me very skeptical about overdramatized "facts." I have been following yunaforum.com for a long time and never heard anybody calling IB THAT unprofessional (not even now actually).

Besides, IB never badmouthed Yuna so your haircut example is irrelevant..

Actually I read from the Korean news paper that some fans are not happy, and the growing frustrations against IB, especially how they handled the Youtube videos. There were a lot of anti Yuna videos posted everyday. They requested an action from IB, and apparently they only acted just 1 week ago before Yuna's contract ends.

And to end this dicussion (hopefully), based on the contract... IB doesn't have a case. You can read my post #671.

 

[Basics]

I'm not happy with how IB Sports ended the contract with Yuna, but I can see why they are upset with Gu. That's my end to the story. lol

 

[yunasashafan]

IB has nothing to gain from bringing the lawsuit. In short, they will lose. If they were reasonable business people they should stop pursuing this matter, as it would damage their image more than Yuna's. The costs of the lawsuit outweigh any kind of benefit they hope to gain. So, does it make strategic or business sense for them to pursue the suit? No.

I completely agree with you here. I do not expect them to win the lawsuit, and the fact that they brought it up will not affect Yuna in the least. But the fact that it does not make sense to us does not mean that they have no right to do it and it definitely does not make it illegal or morally wrong.

They are doing so obviously out of malice against Yuna and really nothing else.

This is where we disagree, and where the crux of my argument is. You (and others) are assuming that IB is out to get Yuna personally. IB is not out to spite Yuna. IMO, the person they're after is the executive who knows so much about IB and is now working with a competing agency. Again, I believe they will lose, but that won't prevent them from trying, if only to save face.

Let me paint the picture the way I see it using a hypothetical situation: Assume Yuna is going to continue competing and then one day Brian announces that he's switching to coach Mao (I know this will never happen, but bear with me for the sake of argument). How would Yuna feel about that? Excluding the emotional side of things, Brian who knows all of Yuna's strength and weaknesses is now working with her rival. Don't tell me this will not make Yuna feel uncomfortable. (And her fans?) As a result, Yuna announces that she has cut all ties with Brian and files a motion to request that KSU ban him from coaching any Korean skaters, thus inflicting a large emotional and financial toll on him. Will she have the motion approved? Probably not. Does she have the right to do that? She definitely does. Will it lead to any results? Probably not. Is she doing that to spite Mao? Definitely not. If she it trying to spite anyone, she is doing it to spite Brian

I'm not happy with how IB Sports ended the contract with Yuna, but I can see why they are upset with Gu. That's my end to the story. lol

You pretty much summed up my thoughts and feelings on this issue.

bad yunasashafan.. :banging: get out of this argument..

 

[demarinis5]

2010 Annual Time 100 List -YuNa is #2 - short sweet article written by the Kween.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1984685_1984949_1985220,00.html

 

[Mrs. P]

I completely agree with you here. I do not expect them to win the lawsuit, and the fact that they brought it up will not affect Yuna in the least. But the fact that it does not make sense to us does not mean that they have no right to do it and it definitely does not make it illegal or morally wrong.



This is where we disagree, and where the crux of my argument is. You (and others) are assuming that IB is out to get Yuna personally. IB is not out to spite Yuna. IMO, the person they're after is the executive who knows so much about IB and is now working with a competing agency. Again, I believe they will lose, but that won't prevent them from trying, if only to save face.

Let me paint the picture the way I see it using a hypothetical situation: Assume Yuna is going to continue competing and then one day Brian announces that he's switching to coach Mao (I know this will never happen, but bear with me for the sake of argument). How would Yuna feel about that? Excluding the emotional side of things, Brian who knows all of Yuna's strength and weaknesses is now working with her rival. Don't tell me this will not make Yuna feel uncomfortable. (And her fans?) As a result, Yuna announces that she has cut all ties with Brian and files a motion to request that KSU ban him from coaching any Korean skaters, thus inflicting a large emotional and financial toll on him. Will she have the motion approved? Probably not. Does she have the right to do that? She definitely does. Will it lead to any results? Probably not. Is she doing that to spite Mao? Definitely not. If she it trying to spite anyone, she is doing it to spite Brian



You pretty much summed up my thoughts and feelings on this issue.

bad yunasashafan.. :banging: get out of this argument..

I agree with all the things you've said. We live in a society where people sue over everything, I'm not surprised that IB would sue their old associate.

I think this is what you want, yunasashafan
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/04/26/2010042601156.html

IB Sports' leak of the information, besides stirring up ill will between Japan and Korea, comes at a sensitive time for Kim as she has been trying to avoid talk of the rivalry between her and Asada after finishing second to Asada in the World Championships in March.

The leak has fueled suspicions that IB Sports' relationship with Kim is deteriorating. The agency claims that a former IB Sports executive who recently resigned is deeply involved in Kim's effort to set up her own agency, and it is considering suing the executive for breach of trust. But Kim has remained silent amid the controversies.

For all you non-lawyer types a breach of trust is (according to the businessdictionary.com):
Abuse of power, or failure (whether or not deliberate, dishonest, or negligent) to carryout the general and fiduciary duties of a trustee. Trustees are personally liable for any loss to the trust caused directly or indirectly by the breach, and must hand over (to the trust) any profit made from the breach (whether or not the trust suffered any loss).

What that is saying is that IB Sports is suing the executive because by going to a rival company, he has failed, whether it was deliberate or not, to carry out his duties to the company to its proper conclusion. And that failure may have a adverse financial affect on the company. In essence, IB is trying to convince the court that this executive's move to Yuna's company cause financial harm to the company.

 

[Figure88]

This is where we disagree, and where the crux of my argument is. You (and others) are assuming that IB is out to get Yuna personally. IB is not out to spite Yuna. IMO, the person they're after is the executive who knows so much about IB and is now working with a competing agency. Again, I believe they will lose, but that won't prevent them from trying, if only to save face.

The assumption here is that IB's motives are completely innocent and sincere. But do you know how real business is conducted? There is so much politics involved. I doubt anyone would go after someone they think wronged them directly. But a lawsuit presents a perfect opportunity because of the negative publicity thatensues whether or not the cases have merit especially involving megastars like Yuna.

Let me paint the picture the way I see it using a hypothetical situation: Assume Yuna is going to continue competing and then one day Brian announces that he's switching to coach Mao (I know this will never happen, but bear with me for the sake of argument). How would Yuna feel about that? Excluding the emotional side of things, Brian who knows all of Yuna's strength and weaknesses is now working with her rival. Don't tell me this will not make Yuna feel uncomfortable. (And her fans?) As a result, Yuna announces that she has cut all ties with Brian and files a motion to request that KSU ban him from coaching any Korean skaters, thus inflicting a large emotional and financial toll on him. Will she have the motion approved? Probably not. Does she have the right to do that? She definitely does. Will it lead to any results? Probably not. Is she doing that to spite Mao? Definitely not. If she it trying to spite anyone, she is doing it to spite Brian

It's a little naive to that IB's action are not out of spite. Like I said, their actions don't really make sense to me primarily because they are more damaged by the suit than Yuna. And I mean to extent that IB might go bankrupt with all negative publicity against them.

Another point I wanted to make is that it's impossible to prevent former employees changing jobs to that of a competitor's. This happens all the time and employers usually accept it as a natural course of business since the other side would be that an employer is preventing a former employee from earning their livelihood. I don't see Gu's case is any more exceptional. In fact, IB never had a figure skating client before Yuna, so it isn't as if Gu gained any special knowledge from IB in order to carry out his job. It seems more likely that Gu singlehandedly broke the deals/attracted clients and that came out of his own experience, not from any special knowledge gained gained at IB.

You pretty much summed up my thoughts and feelings on this issue.

bad yunasashafan.. :banging: get out of this argument..

I've said all that I want to say on this matter as well. It's kind of fruitless to engage in this back and forth. I think we should just agree to disagree.:thumbsup:

 

[Lilith11]

Hi Lilith!

Michelle mentions in the tribute that Yuna told her that as a young girl, she'd memorize MK's program and pretend she was the Kween.

(Oh, I'm now keeping meticulous track of your pearls of wisdom, as per your rather severe rebuke . Care to drop any this time around?

That's so cute.. little Yu-na stumbling around, immitating the Kween LOLS!

And why weren't you doing that before? You should be honored I would even deign to share my amazing words of poer and wisdom amonst such subjects as you! How dare you order I, the Queen of Wisdom! XD

 

[yunasashafan]

I think this is what you want, yunasashafan
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/04/26/2010042601156.html

For all you non-lawyer types a breach of trust is (according to the businessdictionary.com):
Abuse of power, or failure (whether or not deliberate, dishonest, or negligent) to carryout the general and fiduciary duties of a trustee. Trustees are personally liable for any loss to the trust caused directly or indirectly by the breach, and must hand over (to the trust) any profit made from the breach (whether or not the trust suffered any loss).
What that is saying is that IB Sports is suing the executive because by going to a rival company, he has failed, whether it was deliberate or not, to carry out his duties to the company to its proper conclusion. And that failure may have a adverse financial affect on the company. In essence, IB is trying to convince the court that this executive's move to Yuna's company cause financial harm to the company.

Exactly! Thanks Mrs. P. for the source and for your very eloquent explanation.

The assumption here is that IB's motives are completely innocent and sincere
…
It's a little naive to that IB's action are not out of spite. Like I said, their actions don't really make sense to me primarily because they are more damaged by the suit than Yuna.

My point is that IB may be spiteful against their former employee, not Yuna. Although I agree that IB will suffer much more from this than Yuna (or Gu for that matter). But as far as they are concerned, the lawsuit was a justifiable enough option that they went for it. (whatever justification that may be, be it that they like their chances or just to spite their employee or scare him into staying, it is up to them..) There are so many ways one can think about this and the “to spite Yuna” reason is the one that makes least sense to me.

Another point I wanted to make is that it's impossible to prevent former employees changing jobs to that of a competitor's. This happens all the time and employers usually accept it as a natural course of business since the other side would be that an employer is preventing a former employee from earning their livelihood. I don't see Gu's case is any more exceptional. In fact, IB never had a figure skating client before Yuna, so it isn't as if Gu gained any special knowledge from IB in order to carry out his job. It seems more likely that Gu singlehandedly broke the deals/attracted clients and that came out of his own experience, not from any special knowledge gained gained at IB.

And that could exactly be why they want to keep him. The FS market is blooming (thanks to Yuna) and, since they can’t keep Yuna, they’d want to at least keep him. You’re right, people change employment all the time, but there are rules that restrict the employment of high-profile executives in competing agencies, usually in the form of a mimimum time window between the two positions (in Gu’s case the window is 2 years). This is especially true for someone as high up the power echelon as a VP like Gu. It is like redshirting if you're a sports fan.

I've said all that I want to say on this matter as well. It's kind of fruitless to engage in this back and forth. I think we should just agree to disagree.:thumbsup:

I agree. Let’s agree to disagree and go celebrate Yuna’s achievements instead. Maybe we can also agree on something else: who else would like for Yuna to stay competitive?

 

[Lilith11]

*raises two hands* ME (like a kid in elementary school XD)!

Yu-na's Samsung CM teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlUJCYSZTXo

She looks so effing adorable

Yu-na to help Korean Olympics Bid
http://www.seattlepi.com/olympics/2090ap_oly_2018_olympic_bids.html
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2010-04-28-1571610408_x.htm

Credit: Spiccoli@YKF

Yu-na Promoting Hyundai

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/YunaBliss/201004291256214439_1.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/YunaBliss/2010042912175591775_1.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/YunaBliss/2010042912001994334_1.jpg

Credit: SquallB@YKF

And it looks like Yu-na's at a photoshoot! Doesn't she look gorgeous even in LQ?

http://pds17.egloos.com/pds/201004/29/06/b0012106_4bd8acb0e8bda.jpg

Credit: Common@YKF

Hey, just a thought. If South Korea does win the bid for the 2018 Winter Olympics, how amazing would it be if Yu-na lit the torch, like Midori did in Nagano?

 

[Figure88]

okay...one more response before i go. Sorry about the response. I just wanted to clarify some previous points. LOL!

My point is that IB may be spiteful against their former employee, not Yuna. Although I agree that IB will suffer much more from this than Yuna (or Gu for that matter). But as far as they are concerned, the lawsuit was a justifiable enough option that they went for it. (whatever justification that may be, be it that they like their chances or just to spite their employee or scare him into staying, it is up to them..) There are so many ways one can think about this and the “to spite Yuna” reason is the one that makes least sense to me.

The only rational reason that someone would bring a lawsuit is for monetary gain, esp. in the context of businesses, because of the exorbitant expenses, stress and time wasted that naturally ensues. Since we've established that this is a losing case, what kind of rational sense does it make to bringing the lawsuit? My guess is that they'll be out of pocket hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees alone, not considering the negative publicity that will adversely affect their future revenue. So what can be motivating them? Maybe to them, the money and time is worth it because of the bind that it will place Yuna and her mom. That's not "spite"? Like I said, we've already agreed that this is a losing case. So what other explanation is there?

And that could exactly be why they want to keep him. The FS market is blooming (thanks to Yuna) and, since they can’t keep Yuna, they’d want to at least keep him. You’re right, people change employment all the time, but there are rules that restrict the employment of high-profile executives in competing agencies, usually in the form of a mimimum time window between the two positions (in Gu’s case the window is 2 years). This is especially true for someone as high up the power echelon as a VP like Gu.

I don't think the work that Gu does requires any kind of specialized knowledge. Gu is not employed in a technical field, where he's privy to company secrets which would financially damage his former employer if the information were leaked to their competitor. Frankly, any Joe on the street with good people skills can do the his job. Also, as sleepymom mentioned in her post, there's a lot of policy considerations that would dissuade a court because of the former employee's freedom to choose jobs and earn a livelihood.

Maybe we can also agree on something else: who else would like for Yuna to stay competitive?

On the possibility of Yuna's retirement. Well, Apolo Ohno always comes to mind. I thought for sure that Ohno would retire after '06 but he stuck around for another Olympics and there's talk that he'll be around for '14. Ohno did the Hollywood ciruit after his wins but he came back to training submitting himself to arduous training and stark conditions because he missed competing. Likewise, I would think be the experience will be similar for Yuna.

 

[yunasashafan]

okay...one more response before i go. Sorry!

I know, it's so tempting

The only rational reason that someone would bring a lawsuit is for monetary gain, esp. in the context of businesses, because of the exorbitant expenses, stress and time wasted. Since we've established that this is a losing case, what kind of rational sense does it make to bringing the lawsuit? My guess is that they'll be out of pocket hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees alone, not considering the negative publicity that will adversely affect their future revenue. So what can be motivating them? Maybe to them, the money and time is worth it because of the bind that it will place Yuna and her mom. That's not "spite"? Like I said, we've already agreed that this is a losing case. So what other explanation is there?

But how is that putting Yuna and her mom in a bind? I would think that they would be the first to realize that Yuna's popularity in Korea is far beyond reach. The reason they are probably going to lose their lawsuit is because Gu's restrictions only apply to him serving as an agent, not as an advisor.. a technicality. How about this: they were not aware of the nature of Gu's employment with ATS, and sued thinking they'd get him for serving as an agent to Yuna, but team Yuna was smarter and made use of the loophole.

Anyway, let's agree that IB is not being smart, and will end up losing whatever their motivation might be.

Again, sorry about the response. I just wanted to clarify some previous points. LOL!!

same here

On the possibility of Yuna's retirement. Well, I thought for sure that Apolo Ohno would retire after '06 but he stuck around for another Olympics and there's talk that he'll be around for '14. Ohno did the Hollywood ciruit after his wins but he came back to training submitting himself to arduous training and stark conditions because he missed competing. Likewise, I would think be the experience will be similar for Yuna.

I agree, Yuna is very competitve and I do not think doing shows only would be enough to satisfy her drive. Before Worlds, I thought she would probably continue. But after seeing her so demotivated there, I have my suspicions, especially now with the creation of her own agency. I am really hoping it's just temporary lack of motivation and after some rest (which I am not sure she's getting :disapp she'll be able to find her drive.

ETA: thanks for a great discussion

 

[Bennett]

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/04/26/2010042601156.html

Asada's team expressed its annoyance and Japanese daily Nikkan Sports published refuting remarks from her side on Sunday. "Asada's team dismissed the rumor as groundless," the daily reported. "They said they would not do something that would strain feelings between Korea and Japan."

However, Orser told a Korean news agency that he was asked by Asada's management company IMG to coach her last month during the World Championships in Turin, but the proposal was not official and no further steps were taken......

From Orser's remarks, it appears that Asada's team did consider hiring him as she is preparing to leave her current coach.

[IB Sports'] leak has fueled suspicions that IB Sports' relationship with Kim is deteriorating. The agency claims that a former IB Sports executive who recently resigned is deeply involved in Kim's effort to set up her own agency, and it is considering suing the executive for breach of trust.

I find this article biased. When the Mao team dismissed the rumor as groundless, saying that they would not do anything that would strain feelings between Korea and Japan, why does the article conclude that Asada's team did consider hiring him, instead of thinking of possible miscommunications? Someone in IMG may have suggested Orser during the Worlds like, "Why don't you coach Mao next if Yuna retires?" in their casual conversations. But anyone with common sense knows that the "offer" made during the Worlds (what a timing!) could not have been serious when Yuna has never announced that she'd retire. Besides, it's reported that the Mao team is seeking for Japanese coach(es) while keeping the connection with TAT. IB Sports should not have named Mao out of blue, resulting in negative feelings against her. It's Mao, not Orser or IB Sports, who lost most for what she or her manager did not do.

 

[Lilith11]

Korean fans amaze me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV78-tdKfjY&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kul2WucfYtY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvXiAH9fy6U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhMybdcNYwo

Wowzers...

 

[Robeye]

That's so cute.. little Yu-na stumbling around, immitating the Kween LOLS!

And why weren't you doing that before? You should be honored I would even deign to share my amazing words of poer and wisdom amonst such subjects as you! How dare you order I, the Queen of Wisdom! XD

I think I almost blew out my retinas trying to make out the words (as did the censors ). Have you been overdosing on Tolkien recently?

Yuna learned her lessons well. Such is the power of role models. And I think Yuna, in turn, is going to be the one whose qualities (speed, jumps, musicality and expressiveness) are going to be emulated by the next generation of top ladies skaters.

 

[parma]

Oh God..

Come on, don't deny you are actually enjoying this little chat a bit. Judging from what you have said here so far about the IB deal, I am sure you don't read Korean, so you don't have the full picture as to what has been going on with this deal. You have been pressing your idea that irrationally loyal Yuna fans are making a tragic princess out of her, apparently just based on what you picked up from an English version of Korean newspapers and the Yuna forum. I don't know where to begin with that but chuckle; you don't have the full picture of what that means in the Korean context to have a say on what has been going on; if you did, it would be difficult to come to your conclusion, not just for you but for anyone with a good common sense. Another thing I would like to add is you are not the only one with an understanding of what the business world is like (if you truly are), or being a rational fan, so you don't have to be boastful about that over and over again.

And I didn't say the stylist badmouthed the customer. I said the stylist said things about the costumer and her taste. Don't try to mislead with what I said just because you don't have a good response to it.

 

[alfoalfo]

hi, does anyone know when Yuna's episode of "Knee Drop Guru" is going to air?
it's been a while since she did the shoot, just wondering why it's taking so long to air :disapp:

 

[jian10]

T

here were a lot of anti Yuna videos posted everyday. They requested an action from IB, and apparently they only acted just 1 week ago before Yuna's contract ends.

What did they do? I've been wondering if anyone is going to do anything about those malicious videos.