Is The Idea Of American Figure Skating's 'Ice Princess' Dead?

[brightphoton]

"They [skating's power brokers] get on these agendas, and often it's so ridiculous," Carroll says. "Remember the whole rule against men in tights? How ridiculous. Tights. 'Oh no no no no no!' Well, what's wrong with a man in a leotard? I don't care what they wear. Get up and skate. This sport is about the way you move, the way you interpret the music and the story, and doing it in a way that moves your soul. Whether you have a leotard on or a thong or you're half-naked -- I mean, if a girl gets out there half-naked, well, God bless her, and who cares! If you can't see through the froufrou and judge how they move, what they're doing out on the ice, then you shouldn't be judging the sport. Get a life. Get into something else."

On a slightly related, I was talking about the upcoming Nationals with my non-figure-skating friends, and they told me they were looking forward to seeing Johnny Weir skate, "that guy who likes to wear lots of sparkles and fancy costumes."

They have no idea who Michelle Kwan or Yuna Kim are, but Johnny gets them excited. Figure skating is at an all-time low for popularity, might as well try something new.

 

[gkelly]

Ideally, I'd want to see room for all sorts of skaters with all sorts of different approaches, styles, personalities, etc. Not "the old way was wrong, so everybody switch to a better new way," but rather "the old way was too limited, let's encourage and showcase lots more ways to be a good skater."

 

[evangeline]

Is this any way for an Ice Princess to think and talk and act? Should Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan arrive together in a Town Car and slap duct tape over Wagner's mouth before she rattles the decades-old office of the Ice Princess anymore? Or should they show up and say, it's about time?

To me, what counts is when athletes put their money where their mouths are. Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan are all World and/or Olympic champions and dominated their respective eras, which speaks to their competitiveness and fierceness far more than anything Wagner or Gold have ever done so far.

 

[LiamForeman]

Ideally, I'd want to see room for all sorts of skaters with all sorts of different approaches, styles, personalities, etc. Not "the old way was wrong, so everybody switch to a better new way," but rather "the old way was too limited, let's encourage and showcase lots more ways to be a good skater."

Well, I thought the article was more about the "Ice Princess" image off ice for the most part. Wagner speaks her mind, and doesn't give a darn what the old-school stalwart USFS members expect from her. She was the only Olympic contender last year who voiced her opinion about the anti-gay Russian law after it was implied at Champ's Camp they were all told to have no comment. Her skating is realized and refined and she's not just a spark plug. Maybe she's not princessy in her skating, but it is pleasant to watch. I suppose she reminds me of a Jill Trenary type, because Jill was no Ice Princess. Ice Queen, maybe? I thought this article was mainly about US skaters, but the Russian ladies aren't really ice princesses. At least I don't consider Sot, Tuk, Pogo, Leo in that way. Lip and Radio are too young to really tell at this point. And none of them seem so pre-programmed in their dialogue with the media. They want to win and like Wagner want to level the competition. Gracie up to now is a programmed pageant patty type with little to say except niceties wrapped up in bunny wrapping paper with a pink bow. blech. The article was funny because Frank had so much to say yet he is responsible for turning Gracie into a Disney Princess.

 

[lavender]

I’m fine with the things Ashley says in this sport. Things are really different now.

I actually saw Michelle as the Kween…not really a princess. I also never saw Tara as a princess either.

 

[silverfoxes]

It seems premature to say it's dead just because there is one skater who speaks her mind. When every skater is "real," honest, and not afraid to have a personality, then it will be a new era. Gracie would rather be called "America's sweetheart" than an ice princess? That term is even more nauseating...:disapp:

 

[kiara_bleu]

It isn't that the American "ice princess" is dead but that there has been no American female figure skater that had any dominance or even just sustained success in the major international competitions in the past few years. If, for arguments sake, Ashley or Gracie wins a world championship you can bet that there will be an article or two that would describe either one of them as a princess. The only difference would be the way it would be framed. Ashley would be described as the modern take on a princess comparing her to the princesses of Tangled, Brave, or Frozen in terms of being feisty and bold. Gracie would be seen as continuing the legacy of Peggy Flemming and Dorothy Hamill as the quintessential "ice princess".

I have more of an issue with why we need to continue to use the label "princess" especially since these female skaters are showing increasing athleticism, no matter if they are graceful or artistic. By the way, I'm not saying that the skaters today are more athletic than in the past, I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying that the current system is requiring and rewarding a level of technique now that forces ALL elite skaters to be at top form if they want to sustain success.

 

[TwinnerA]

I’m fine with the things Ashley says in this sport. Things are really different now.

I actually saw Michelle as the Kween…not really a princess. I also never saw Tara as a princess either.

Except Ashley sounds like she owns Nationals when she calls it "my title". The only skater that I remember "owning" it in my lifetime was the Kween!

 

[Meoima]

So they assume Debi Thomas were ice princess, huh? :sarcasm:

 

[Moxiejan]

Except Ashley sounds like she owns Nationals when she calls it "my title". The only skater that I remember "owning" it in my lifetime was the Kween!

In sports talk, a person who wins an event is often described as "owning" a title, both by broadcasters and by themselves. As in: "Will Gracie be able to defend her title?" Or: "Will Ashley be able to win her title back?"

 

[Sophie-Anna]

Sometimes I don't like some things what Ashley says in her interviews but I love her skating and personally I like Ashley more than ''all the time smiling princess'' Gracie.It doesn't mean I hate Gracie because it's not true she had some great programs I'm just saying I like Ashley more.

 

[Sandpiper]

Except Ashley sounds like she owns Nationals when she calls it "my title". The only skater that I remember "owning" it in my lifetime was the Kween!

The way the article framed some of Ashley's statements was a bit misleading. How is saying something like, "I want to win back my title" really indicative of anything? She's a former National Champion, that's all it means.

 

[LiamForeman]

It seems premature to say it's dead just because there is one skater who speaks her mind. When every skater is "real," honest, and not afraid to have a personality, then it will be a new era. Gracie would rather be called "America's sweetheart" than an ice princess? That term is even more nauseating...:disapp:

It's just that the powers that be are so antiquated in their thinking. I thought once you turn 70, you are out in any official capacity. But then again didn't ISU restructure that so Cinquata could have another four to life years even after he aged out?? What's the deal with that???? He's not even a figure skater but a has been speedskater. With no artistic sense or really any sense. I delighted when he'd come to an event I was attending and I would lead the boo's and jeers and nasty whistles whenever he was introduced. Who the hell is he to dictate figure skating???

I understand it's just so easy to pretend to be the Ice Princess. Your choreography is just one waved and extended arm after another meaning nothing, but the programs are so jam packed that's all you can expect for choreo. I wish they'd limit the number of jumping passes to 5, and spins to 3 (LB, combo, flying) and use the rest of the time to actually use your music. I think most figure skaters are smart and they know how to look graceful and just flit their arms and hands trying to be artistic though it could be to any PPM (Pretty Princess Music).

Gracie Gold is not America's Sweetheart. Nor is the current Miss America. The US is way past these stereotypes. And it is nauseating. At least Gracie has met with Taylor Swift a coupla times, makes her seem more current.

 

[anyanka]

One of many reasons why I love Diva Wagner. I don't always agree with everything she says, but I appreciate her honesty and determination. Though I will mention, on some of the quotes, she sounds different than what might come across on a page (for instance, the "I don't like losing to girls" thing could sound bitter when written down, but in the actual interview, I recall she seemed to be smiling/joking).

I think skaters (male and female) should just be themselves. I agree with Krunchii: If their natural style is "ice princess," sure, go for it! I don't need Li Zijun to try to be all fierce and angry--that could come across as inauthentic. The problem with Gracie is that she comes across as inauthentic. She doesn't perform the style the way Fleming/Hamill/Yamaguchi/Kwan did. It feels forced upon her.

I also agree with anyanka that the so-called "ice princess" has always been, at least in part, a media construct. Ashley really isn't saying anything that her competitors don't also say--in their heads.

You phrased it much more elegantly than I ever could.

 

[anthologyz]

i think these choice quotes from carroll, lipinski, wagner could have generated a more interesting article than what it turned out to be, esp. in terms of addressing the current state of american women's skating rather than a regression into constrictive notions of gender. i think outside of the u.s., the women who are actually winning don't seem to share the same obsession with becoming cardboard ice princesses. i think they're more focused on training to compete and win titles.

now, with respect to the current scoring system, i loathe to think how IJS would have stifled the creativity of a janet lynn or the exuberance of a midori ito with all the mechanical pursuit of more and more points.

 

[chairmanmao]

No female American skaters have ever appealed to me. The lot of them are the cutesy litte miss something type. They do produce trashy types like Harding and Wagner once in a while but they don't appeal to me either. Why can't they produce elegant skaters like Mao and Yuna? The closest I can think of is Kwan but she still seemed unrefined to me.

 

[Mathman]

The closest I can think of is Kwan but she still seemed unrefined to me.

Aw, she did the best she could. She made up for it by determination and emotional committment.

I think you could say that Michelle was middling-refined. As refined as we can rationally expect of a rough-hewn American. :yes:

 

[Meoima]

No female American skaters have ever appealed to me. The lot of them are the cutesy litte miss something type. They do produce trashy types like Harding and Wagner once in a while but they don't appeal to me either. Why can't they produce elegant skaters like Mao and Yuna? The closest I can think of is Kwan but she still seemed unrefined to me.

Lol I need diversity so please no other copies of Mao or Yuna. They are great but if all the skaters just copy them I find it kind of boring.

PS: Kwan was not refined in WHICH WAY?? :sarcasm:

 

[MoonlightSkater]

Sasha wasn't elegant?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

"Trashy type" Wagner actually has two elegant programs this season, despite the fact she comes across as hypercompetitive in interviews.