Elizaveta Tuktamysheva

[Tutto]

Thank you. If I'm reading the computer translation correct, he says that Liza's back is fine now (like how she's gotten over puberty)? If it's true, I'm relieved (though she still needs to be careful, of course).

I've translated a bit of that very interesting interview (hope to do more later):

Q: You said at the beginning of the season that Liza might have to sit out the whole season due to the back injury. Was it said just in order to be left in peace and be able to prepare for the season without interruption, or the problem was really serious?
A: There was indeed an injury but we were lucky with a doctor. First the pain and inflammation were managed effectively, and then with the Liza’s weight getting back to normal the problem went way completely.

 

[paulusfr]

I don't think Liza will learn to jump new combinations at all (probably except 3Lz-3T for SP). It's meaningless, doesn't provide any benefit. High-class skaters rarely do it.

By the way, Mishin said in an interview that Jumps is the most important and interesting part of the figure skating. In addition, he considers there is no point to jump 3A-3T for Liza.
More here http://www.sport-express.ru/newspaper/2015-04-01/8_1/?view=page

 

[Tutto]

A little more from same interview with Mishin, he talks of his work with women and why he chose Lisa:

'There were also some failures/ low points in my career.
For example?
For example, when I tried to work with women. Sometimes I felt so stressed, I could not understand at all what to do [it went like this]: in the morning we’d get the toe-loop right – in the evening no toe-loop. In the evening get the lutz right – the following morning no lutz. Why at the time I took Liza in my group? Because I got very tired and realised that all my work goes into sand [nowhere]. Yes, Liza’s technique was poor but at least she had a height in her jumps. And when we did start to work I suddenly realised that that girl was a quick learner. That she had flexibility, she was musical with a perfect pitch, had a good head on her shoulders. But at the start I saw nothing in Liza save jumps and clumsiness'

 

[Sugarpova]

there's a translation of it on FSU
i dont know the policies about copypasting so I wont post here for safety reasons

btw Liza is ready for another comp
http://kfis.gov.spb.ru/press/news/9205/

our girl is on fire & ready for another medal!

 

[Sophie-Anna]

Someone has posted a video about Liza with English translation of it-not the whole video, but the most important phrases were translated. I saw it on GS forum, or on this Fan forum just before two or three days and now I can’t find it anywhere. Could just anyone say me where is it? Or is it now deleted? I think it was this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kz-e8224kk

 

[Sandpiper]

Translation of the documentary with Liza: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...lizaveta-tuktamysheva-three-and-a-half.95258/

Translation of Mishin's interview: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/vaitsekhovskayas-interview-with-mishin.95288/

All credit to quiqie on FSU. (Apologies for asking for a translation when one already existed... I only saw it after I'd already posted).

Too bad about 3A-3T, but I made the exact same argument about why it's unnecessary. Still, would be good for Liza to have another "first" in the history books, so I hold out hope that they'll consider it at a B event or something.

 

[moriel]

*passing by...*
since i speak russian, can help with translating stuff too if needed =D

 

[solani]

Translation of the documentary with Liza: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...lizaveta-tuktamysheva-three-and-a-half.95258/

Translation of Mishin's interview: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/vaitsekhovskayas-interview-with-mishin.95288/

All credit to quiqie on FSU. (Apologies for asking for a translation when one already existed... I only saw it after I'd already posted).

Too bad about 3A-3T, but I made the exact same argument about why it's unnecessary. Still, would be good for Liza to have another "first" in the history books, so I hold out hope that they'll consider it at a B event or something.

Maybe. I would like to see that, until then I would be happy with a 2A-3T. And the rules might change in the next years (Like the 10% bonus for jumps in the second half in 2012. It would be great if difficult combos would be rewarded.). They certainly don't relax!

 

[Sophie-Anna]

Translation of the documentary with Liza: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...lizaveta-tuktamysheva-three-and-a-half.95258/

Translation of Mishin's interview: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/vaitsekhovskayas-interview-with-mishin.95288/

All credit to quiqie on FSU. (Apologies for asking for a translation when one already existed... I only saw it after I'd already posted).

Too bad about 3A-3T, but I made the exact same argument about why it's unnecessary. Still, would be good for Liza to have another "first" in the history books, so I hold out hope that they'll consider it at a B event or something.

Thank you very much

 

[Globetrotter]

So it does look appear that the real reason Mishin took her under his wings was her determination and grit and strength of character rather than the raw talents. If we look back at those Russian skaters taught by Mishin, Yagudin, Urmanov, Plushy and now Liza, they were probably not the most naturally talented and it appears they all came from rather modest background prior to meeting Mishin. What they all had was a very strong competitive fire which allowed them to fight through the pressure. It does look like Mishin is a strict but nurturing sort who knew how to bring out the best in those skaters who really needed a leg up and he went beyond what was expected. No wonder Plushy and Liza felt so obligated to him, as he had really earned their respect.

 

[Caustica]

So it does look appear that the real reason Mishin took her under his wings was her determination and grit and strength of character rather than the raw talents. If we look back at those Russian skaters taught by Mishin, Yagudin, Urmanov, Plushy and now Liza, they were probably not the most naturally talented and it appears they all came from rather modest background prior to meeting Mishin. What they all had was a very strong competitive fire which allowed them to fight through the pressure. It does look like Mishin is a strict but nurturing sort who knew how to bring out the best in those skaters who really needed a leg up and he went beyond what was expected. No wonder Plushy and Liza felt so obligated to him, as he had really earned their respect.

I agree that he was definitely impressed by Liza's determination, but I would say that she did have raw talent too: Mishin was impressed by her ability to jump very HIGH! It was merely that she had been taught the wrong technique.

Mishin has helped Plushy and Liza out a lot with their lives, certainly. Helped them find a place to live, paid their rent/found a sponsor, helped Liza's mum get a job in St Petersburg, etc. Unsurprising that he is so much more than merely a coach to Liza (and Plush too, I am sure)

 

[Sandpiper]

So it does look appear that the real reason Mishin took her under his wings was her determination and grit and strength of character rather than the raw talents. If we look back at those Russian skaters taught by Mishin, Yagudin, Urmanov, Plushy and now Liza, they were probably not the most naturally talented and it appears they all came from rather modest background prior to meeting Mishin. What they all had was a very strong competitive fire which allowed them to fight through the pressure. It does look like Mishin is a strict but nurturing sort who knew how to bring out the best in those skaters who really needed a leg up and he went beyond what was expected. No wonder Plushy and Liza felt so obligated to him, as he had really earned their respect.

They were extremely talented. Plushenko had all his triples before he even met Mishin (his first coach wasn't even a figure skater. A former weight-lifter, IIRC?) As Caustica noted, Liza first impressed Mishin with her naturally high jumps, then with her ability to learn things quickly.

Obviously, talent isn't the only thing that matters. But piecing together what Mishin has said in interviews, he generally only takes on a student if he feels like they have the talent to go places. If he does spot talent though, he goes out of his way to nurture it, including helping with housing/jobs that go above and beyond a coach's duty.

Plushenko, Yagudin, Liza ect. were certainly hard-working and tough, but make no mistake, they were talented too. Talent and hard work are not necessarily opposed to each other.

 

[adelia]

So it does look appear that the real reason Mishin took her under his wings was her determination and grit and strength of character rather than the raw talents. If we look back at those Russian skaters taught by Mishin, Yagudin, Urmanov, Plushy and now Liza, they were probably not the most naturally talented and it appears they all came from rather modest background prior to meeting Mishin. What they all had was a very strong competitive fire which allowed them to fight through the pressure. It does look like Mishin is a strict but nurturing sort who knew how to bring out the best in those skaters who really needed a leg up and he went beyond what was expected. No wonder Plushy and Liza felt so obligated to him, as he had really earned their respect.

No, it was talent (specifically to jump high) and also her physique. He looks for certain natural abilities in young skaters. Especially girls, which he thinks are harder to teach. In the last 2 decades, how many skaters has he personally coached starting at the novice or junior level, very few.

 

[Tutto]

I too believe that Mishin values talent most of all. I remember in that video 'How to nurture the champion' made by Liza Nugumanova's granddad, Mishin said that hard work & determination are important but without talent it is nothing. Besides it is easy enough to see at once natural talent & physical abilities of the child but the true test of character & determination only comes with time.

 

[Globetrotter]

They were extremely talented. Plushenko had all his triples before he even met Mishin (his first coach wasn't even a figure skater. A former weight-lifter, IIRC?) As Caustica noted, Liza first impressed Mishin with her naturally high jumps, then with her ability to learn things quickly.

Obviously, talent isn't the only thing that matters. But piecing together what Mishin has said in interviews, he generally only takes on a student if he feels like they have the talent to go places. If he does spot talent though, he goes out of his way to nurture it, including helping with housing/jobs that go above and beyond a coach's duty.

Plushenko, Yagudin, Liza ect. were certainly hard-working and tough, but make no mistake, they were talented too. Talent and hard work are not necessarily opposed to each other.

They certainly had the talents. I was just saying that I thought their greatest talent was more the mental toughness rather than physical. Besides the obvious jumping abilities, I always felt that Mishin's protoges have excellent competitive nerves. Other than the jumps, Papa Mishin clearly had managed to instill in his students the mental fortitude to face the challenges and pressure of competitions. Plushy was clearly his star pupil in this and Tuks' remarkable comeback surely has to involve a lot of gritty determination. Jump mechanics and physics are Mishin's special interest but I am more interested to know how he manages to nurture his students to be such fierce and fearless competitors on the ice.

 

[solani]

Mishin is certainly an exceptional coach when he believes in his student. His best students didn't doubt themselves, maybe because he didn't? Yagudin left because he felt that he wasn't Mishin's no. 1. He seems to give his no. 1 student a lot of attention, very time consuming. Maybe Elizaveta is so much better this year (apart from puberty), because Plushenko doesn't need that much attention right now?

 

[Sugarpova]

cute pic
(is it Gilles/Poirier with them?)

 

[adelia]

Mishin is certainly an exceptional coach when he believes in his student. His best students didn't doubt themselves, maybe because he didn't? Yagudin left because he felt that he wasn't Mishin's no. 1. He seems to give his no. 1 student a lot of attention, very time consuming. Maybe Elizaveta is so much better this year (apart from puberty), because Plushenko doesn't need that much attention right now?

Yes, true. Mishin has said a few times this season that two big loads were lifted from him - Plushy and Gachinski.

 

[ahmindonesia]

Hey, this is my 1st post here. Just want to share this, recently I read so many people talked about how much Liza doin' arm movements in her SP. Maybe this will help us to understand why, and this also will explain to us that Liza has that 'artistry'....

https://youtu.be/zc_8P4FlDcI

*PS: sorry, if my english too bad.

 

[Sandpiper]

They certainly had the talents. I was just saying that I thought their greatest talent was more the mental toughness rather than physical. Besides the obvious jumping abilities, I always felt that Mishin's protoges have excellent competitive nerves. Other than the jumps, Papa Mishin clearly had managed to instill in his students the mental fortitude to face the challenges and pressure of competitions. Plushy was clearly his star pupil in this and Tuks' remarkable comeback surely has to involve a lot of gritty determination. Jump mechanics and physics are Mishin's special interest but I am more interested to know how he manages to nurture his students to be such fierce and fearless competitors on the ice.

I just feel like, from several of your posts recently (not just here), you seem to champion the idea of "the successful people aren't 'the most talented' but they work hard." It's a nice sentiment, but imo, it's not realistic and is somewhat misleading with regards to Mishin.

Mishin indeed goes above and beyond his job, to help out talented kids from modest backgrounds. But make no mistake: these were talented kids. The most talented people he could get his hands on. This isn't a movie where the always-getting-beaten-up scrawny kid convinces the master swordsman to train him with a display of will and dedication. No figure skating coach in the world is going to offer financial help to a modestly talented student.

Of course they also worked hard and had competitive nerve. But with a few exceptions, the top skaters are the most talented people in the field, and they have those other qualities. This goes double if you're an enduring champion like Plushenko or Yagudin, and not just a one hit wonder.

Also, wouldn't you say that competitive nerve is also a talent? (Albeit one that a coach can't spot in an untested child). Many of the could-have-achieved-more crowd worked very hard, but they just didn't have the mindset of a champion.