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- Jan 12, 2015
I'm not denying it, I just think the quote is so inadequate to her situation, that it looks a bit like a slick pun. :confused2:
If Adelina Sotnikova returns
- Thread starter blargmonster
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- Feb 17, 2010
The quote is from a Yuna fan. Some of them still think one should win on artistry alone and that more jumps and better spins should count for nothing.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Gee whiz, folks. The quote means, shut up all you self-annointed critics. Let's see you go out there.
(signed) Mr. Shameful Bourgeois Decadence
Edited to add: Actually, U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt was a big sportsman and outdoorsman who skated recreationally. He courted his future wife Alice by taking her skating at the outdoor rinks in New York. I tried to find a picture of President Roosevelt skating, but the best i could do was this shot of Roosevelt and George Washington at a Washington Capitals Hockey Game.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xazy0jNiGgw/SZRVcEzXqwI/AAAAAAAAA2M/8v793kftOuA/s400/teddy+and+george.jpg
This, though, really is former President Ronald Reagan skating. (More of a speed skater I think.)
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/70/7f/2c/707f2c47289fdaad2fc780fe11371b8b.jpg
Reagan was a Peggy Flemming fan.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/C17250-9.jpg
(signed) Mr. Shameful Bourgeois Decadence
Edited to add: Actually, U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt was a big sportsman and outdoorsman who skated recreationally. He courted his future wife Alice by taking her skating at the outdoor rinks in New York. I tried to find a picture of President Roosevelt skating, but the best i could do was this shot of Roosevelt and George Washington at a Washington Capitals Hockey Game.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xazy0jNiGgw/SZRVcEzXqwI/AAAAAAAAA2M/8v793kftOuA/s400/teddy+and+george.jpg
This, though, really is former President Ronald Reagan skating. (More of a speed skater I think.)
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/70/7f/2c/707f2c47289fdaad2fc780fe11371b8b.jpg
Reagan was a Peggy Flemming fan.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/C17250-9.jpg
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- Feb 13, 2014
And even artistry is subjective. We have seen how temporary art these days has become, some white sheet might cost a million.
Some people are so full of jealosy. Whichever way you would judge Adelina she would have been fairly on the Olympic podium. That's already a huge achivement, and that fact alone deserves enough respect to not blame her for giving her best performances in Sochi, and not show so much negativity to her all over the internet since then. If you are doing it out of bittery feeling for Yuna Kim, you should first look with clear eyes, and consider that, fairly, Carolina would most likely deserve the gold (as someone already mentioned), and secondly, this sort of behaivoir does not carry dignity, but instead it is derogatory and humiliating. Esp. since Yuna was NOT flawless that night. Everyone loves Yuna for her incredible athlethism, intelligence and elegance she showed throughout her fantastic career, but so many of her funs behave so they disgrace this image - at least I feel that way.
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- Jan 17, 2014
Doesn't matter, Sochi is well and truly over, results will not change. Let us all see how Sots handle things upon her return to competitive ice. I suspect that her off comp time was spent refining her artistic impression, dance and body awareness. If she can maintain her technical skills in tandem with that, then we are in for a treat. I never really doubted her technical ability or performance skills, but Sots' real issue is that she can be a headcase and her competitive nerves can get rather suspect. If she can face the pressure and adversity on ice when the stakes are high and deliver, then that is a sign that she is a true champion.
My fav examples of going for it under pressure:
- Tonya Harding US Nats 1991 going for the 3A in her LP. Fail and she stays at home. Land it and she wins the whole comp and is off to Worlds.
- Michelle Kwan 2000 Worlds. She was 3rd after the SP and drew the first skate in LP. Upgraded to a more difficult LP, attacked with more speed than usual and landed the 3T-3T. Fail, she may go off podium. But MK went for it and hit big and won.
- Caro Kostner Sochi SP 2014. She had less tech BV than Mao and Yuna. Upgraded the 3T-3T to a 3F-3T under the biggest sporting event in 2014. If not for her StSq being awarded level 3 which only the tech specialist can answer, she would have been in the lead after the SP - note that she basically got +3 GOE for her steps.
My fav examples of going for it under pressure:
- Tonya Harding US Nats 1991 going for the 3A in her LP. Fail and she stays at home. Land it and she wins the whole comp and is off to Worlds.
- Michelle Kwan 2000 Worlds. She was 3rd after the SP and drew the first skate in LP. Upgraded to a more difficult LP, attacked with more speed than usual and landed the 3T-3T. Fail, she may go off podium. But MK went for it and hit big and won.
- Caro Kostner Sochi SP 2014. She had less tech BV than Mao and Yuna. Upgraded the 3T-3T to a 3F-3T under the biggest sporting event in 2014. If not for her StSq being awarded level 3 which only the tech specialist can answer, she would have been in the lead after the SP - note that she basically got +3 GOE for her steps.
Disagree!
I do respect Adelina, but not because I think she deserved gold in Sochi, nor her highly undeserved 'huge achievement' or her statements she made on this issue (really, calling your critics stupid people who didn't achieve anything themselves is hardly intelligent or will it make them like you more ...), but I respect her the same way I respect every athlete that has trained hard and has overcome obstacles to reach their dreams.
What I don't understand is how pointing out obviously unfair judging is a behavior without dignity, even derogartory and huminiliating. As far as I understand, staying quite about unfair incidences is never classy or digified. Unfair judging should be discussed, as a reminder not to repeat it and to restore dignity - at least I feel that way.
Also it's not only her fans that feel Adelina was overly gifted by the judges - heck, even the japenese media stood beside Yuna, and they are hardly hardcore yuna fans.
I do respect Adelina, but not because I think she deserved gold in Sochi, nor her highly undeserved 'huge achievement' or her statements she made on this issue (really, calling your critics stupid people who didn't achieve anything themselves is hardly intelligent or will it make them like you more ...), but I respect her the same way I respect every athlete that has trained hard and has overcome obstacles to reach their dreams.
What I don't understand is how pointing out obviously unfair judging is a behavior without dignity, even derogartory and huminiliating. As far as I understand, staying quite about unfair incidences is never classy or digified. Unfair judging should be discussed, as a reminder not to repeat it and to restore dignity - at least I feel that way.
Also it's not only her fans that feel Adelina was overly gifted by the judges - heck, even the japenese media stood beside Yuna, and they are hardly hardcore yuna fans.
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- Sep 14, 2014
That's not the real problem... Everyone agrees that the Sochi ladies event was a judging disaster. Heck, I even looked at the looong forum from the Olympics and almost everyone felt outrage. However, some people were able to point out the controversy politely, in a classy way, without overly bashing Adelina. The trouble is, many fans (not sure if I can call them like that) could not do so, and bash Adelina whetever they can. Look at Adelina's Samba video from AOI. Big majority of dislikes! And she only messed up two jumps a bit.
yup... and it is kinda awful specially because it is not like Adelina did something wrong. Judges did, yes. She didnt (accepting a OGM after giving a performanceof her life instead of saying "sorry, i suck, jusges suck, please give the medal to someone else" is not really wrong or not classy) do anything wrong to be bashed.
I'm against name-calling and basing as much as you are, but that's not what lipea said in her post. She was answering to a thread that was overall more or less politely calling out the judging desaster, but said people were only critisising adelina out of jealousy and because they were bitter. Furthermore assuming these people are mostly yuna fans and not seeing clearly and therefore behaving undignifed and humiliating.
In contrast, many posters on this thread critizing the sochi result are not really yuna fans and are definitly not behaving undignified by calling out the weaknesses of the judging in sochi.
In contrast, many posters on this thread critizing the sochi result are not really yuna fans and are definitly not behaving undignified by calling out the weaknesses of the judging in sochi.
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- Feb 25, 2014
The bottom line is that Sochi judging of the women's event was outrageous and those who defend it are equally outrageous. Whether it was fraudulent judging or the panel just getting carried away, it's outrageous. So maybe she did deserve to win. Fine. But she's significantly better than three of the greatest ever in the sport? No. Unfortunately for her, she won't be taken seriously again. Poor thing, really, but good luck to her.
Of course she can be taken seriously again, even if it's generally agreed the Sochi results were crap. We haven't seen her with a season yet but if she plans to stick around for the next quad I'm sure discussions will move on from Sochi. She has an entire carrer ahead of her
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In all honesty, I have nothing against Adelina, but I do wonder how realistic it is to expect Adelina to make a come back. It will be years before she is in A-game form. I mean, Adelina's jump technique was not that great and she was never a stable jumper to begin with, and what with some body changes that she would have likely experienced in addition, she's going to have to do something like what Mao had to do after Vancouver to get to the top of the game.
After Vancouver, the only adversarial event that Mao suffered was the death of her mother. That probably set her work back by something like six months. Otherwise, she just practiced, practiced, practiced, and then practiced more. And you know her. She never lazes. And it still took her the full cycle to get her jumps back in competitive shape, and she actually wasn't finished with the rework when Sochi occurred.
I don't doubt that Adelina is a hardworking girl, but still, she's already lost one year due to injury, and there's only two and a half years to Pyeongchang. What with the next Olympics occuring in Korea of all places, I honestly can't see her placing well, even if she does manage to get her jumps back in some kind of working order by then.
And so it seems like it will only be after Pyeongchang that Adelina will gain her mojo, which is doable age-wise because she's young enough still, but I mean, that's just like hell of a long time to be committed.
I do wonder if she will stick it out for so many years of just practice, practice, practice and then more practice, all the while getting relentless grief from her haterz.
And her situation is opposite to what Mao experienced after Vancouver. Mao had and has a whole legion of fans who love her, whose adoration is not dependent on any medal that she has/will or has/will not won, who believe that CoP gave her the short end of the stick and deprived her of the accolades that she might have gotten, and she didn't have rivals within her federation who preferred to have her gone. Yeah. It's going to be really, really tough for Adelina. I do not envy her at all.
After Vancouver, the only adversarial event that Mao suffered was the death of her mother. That probably set her work back by something like six months. Otherwise, she just practiced, practiced, practiced, and then practiced more. And you know her. She never lazes. And it still took her the full cycle to get her jumps back in competitive shape, and she actually wasn't finished with the rework when Sochi occurred.
I don't doubt that Adelina is a hardworking girl, but still, she's already lost one year due to injury, and there's only two and a half years to Pyeongchang. What with the next Olympics occuring in Korea of all places, I honestly can't see her placing well, even if she does manage to get her jumps back in some kind of working order by then.
And so it seems like it will only be after Pyeongchang that Adelina will gain her mojo, which is doable age-wise because she's young enough still, but I mean, that's just like hell of a long time to be committed.
I do wonder if she will stick it out for so many years of just practice, practice, practice and then more practice, all the while getting relentless grief from her haterz.
And her situation is opposite to what Mao experienced after Vancouver. Mao had and has a whole legion of fans who love her, whose adoration is not dependent on any medal that she has/will or has/will not won, who believe that CoP gave her the short end of the stick and deprived her of the accolades that she might have gotten, and she didn't have rivals within her federation who preferred to have her gone. Yeah. It's going to be really, really tough for Adelina. I do not envy her at all.
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I find the indignation of both Yuna fans and Adelina fans over this debate funny, cause it actually was Carolina who was robbed that night.
Carolina did seven triples, all with correct technique, no suspect underrotations, compared to Yuna's six triples, all with correct technique, but with one suspect underrotation, and no triple loop, and Adelina's seven triples, but not all with correct technique and with one suspect underrotation. So Carolina won the jump department, and Carolina's skating skills are better than both Yuna's and Adelina's, and she had a great program.
So it was actually Carolina who was robbed of gold, with Yuna silver and Adelina bronze being the rightful placements.
Disagree.
Carolina did seven triples, BUT 4 of those triples were the easiest triples, salchows and toe-loops, and only one double axel included, so eventually the base value based upon jumps were lower than Yu-Na's six triples and two double axels. Not to mention there were also shaky landings in Carolina's program just like Yu-Na's second lutz.
Plus, Carolina's skating skill is better than Yu-Na's? That's just your opinion and quite debatable.
Sure it is debatable, considering that there would be tons of people who will disagree with your opinion.
Yeah, it's just your recall.
Did she land more triples than Yu-Na? Right.
Then was her base value of jumps higher than Yu-Na? No.
Did she land more difficult triples than Yu-Na? Nope, considering that Yu-Na did 3 lutz and 2 triple-triple combinations in Sochi compared to Carolina's 1 lutz and 1 triple-triple combination.
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- Dec 29, 2011
Which critics though? Adelina pretty specifically mentions social media accounts afterwards, so it's likely her remarks were aimed at the comments she received on those - and really, there isn't all that much 'critic' in there, it's been mainly people calling her names and worse for months. She's very much right to decide she shouldn't bother with that, and yes, to call that behavior stupid. And it's not as if anything she did would make those people like her (and she really shouldn't try with those 'figure skating fans').
(If she ever really called reasonable critic about the Sochi results flat out stupid though, then yes, that would be stupid on her part too.)
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- Jan 12, 2015
My problem with Adelina's team is stricte "post-Sochi" one.
It's the second year in a row she is placing herself like sword of Damocles hanging over all those uber-talented Russian girls' heads. Whatever they'll do, whatever scores, medals, season bests they achieve, there is always the question: is Adelina going to take the last spot on the team, limiting true competition to two spots?
I can't even imagine how hard and stressful is their fight to establish themselves in present Russian ladies fs - adding incertainty regarding the rules of that competition is just plain unfair and brutal.
You gotta remember the mayhem that unwinded last December before RusNats, when Adelina said in interview she will need some private skates to assess her form before Europeans. :hopelessness:
To me, it's very likely to repeat again and you can't do that to those poor girls year after year after year. :scowl:
Olympic champion should be supported and protected, but there comes time, when she should stand up to the challenge or simply retire.
Having opportunity to beat the champion is a very essence of sport.
It's the second year in a row she is placing herself like sword of Damocles hanging over all those uber-talented Russian girls' heads. Whatever they'll do, whatever scores, medals, season bests they achieve, there is always the question: is Adelina going to take the last spot on the team, limiting true competition to two spots?
I can't even imagine how hard and stressful is their fight to establish themselves in present Russian ladies fs - adding incertainty regarding the rules of that competition is just plain unfair and brutal.
You gotta remember the mayhem that unwinded last December before RusNats, when Adelina said in interview she will need some private skates to assess her form before Europeans. :hopelessness:
To me, it's very likely to repeat again and you can't do that to those poor girls year after year after year. :scowl:
Olympic champion should be supported and protected, but there comes time, when she should stand up to the challenge or simply retire.
Having opportunity to beat the champion is a very essence of sport.
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