Dance - Free

[dancemaster]

ITA, I thought V/M had the worst CD. Every team sucked at some point of the competition.

IMO biased, the only two programs that were skated almost flawless were D/S CD and D/W FD.

no argument from me

 

[MissIzzy]

Mombo gives her humble opinion.

 

[Tinymavy15]

If VM and DW tied, what would have happened?
2 bronze medals?

It would have gone to the team with the higher score in the freedance, a la johnny and evan, 2008 nationals. In that case, Meryl and Charlie would have won becuase they beat Tessa and Scott in the freedance.

 

[Big Deal]

I think, the best CD was of Virtue/ Moir, Belbin/Agosto closed 2nd.
The best OD Davis/White
Definitely the best FD Davis/White, Pechalat/Bourzat 2nd, Virtue/moir 3rd and Belbin/Agosto 4th.

When we've seen the incredible points od Domnina/Shabalin CD, we had the bad feeling, the competition is over.
It was no USA or Can judge in the CD.
Russian judge, the wife of the President, who sent Domnina-Shabalin to Linichuk...
Bulgarian judge (who was Denkova/Stav.'s coach??- Linichuk)
French judge ( France got a place number 5th over the Russian European Champions as a payback to support Domn/Shab. ? ).

Have had ever lost the OGM a Russian couple who won the World title a year before?? Not.
They need to improve or create exciting programs for that? (look Navka/Kostomarov OGM program .. No, they just need to use their reputation points.

I feel sorry of Delobel/Schoenfelder, Virtue/Moir, Davis/White or Belbin/Agosto.
Their next year will be a wasted time to wake up early morning every day.
Their maximum aim could be the silver.

Please, remove Ice Dance from the Olympic Games to make it more fair
This temptation (OGM) is a too strong not to manipulate in a discipline, where is the most easy to do that!!!!!!!!

 

[~tapdancer]

This is really nothing new. I remember the 98 Olympics, the exact same things were said. There is always going to be controversy in ice dance. I think it's part of the appeal actually to fans! We'd love to think the judges and callers are completely unbiased but it just ain't so.

One thing I think...judges for ice dance should be from countries that are actually competing in ice dance.

 

[Mathman]

One thing I think...judges for ice dance should be from countries that are actually competing in ice dance.

Or would it be better to have a judging panel that did not have a national stake in the outcome?

 

[evangeline]

entire post

Yeah, yeah, Russian skaters are all *evil*, *cheating,* *undeserving* winners who only need to stand around the ice for four minutes before gold medals are showered on them, hand-delivered by Piseev himself. Nope, haven't heard THAT before.

If that were true, then why did Dom/Shabs lose the GPF to Del/Shoes, then? I'm not even particularly a fan of Dom/Shabs but all this Russian-bashing gets old and annoying very quickly. That being said, it's rather difficult to deny that ice dance is entirely bereft of politicking, but I do think it's naive to assume that the Russians are the only ones politicking.

And besides, if we were to throw ice dance out from Olympic competition due to the temptations of possible score manipulation, we might as well boot all three of the other disciplines out along with it. With anonymous judging, it's not too difficult to add some GOE here, pad some PCS there, etc., in all four disciplines without being caught.

 

[Medusa]

That being said, it's rather difficult to deny that ice dance is entirely bereft of politicking, but I do think it's naive to assume that the Russians are the only ones politicking.

You just need to read other boards to find that out - French, Russian - pick one, you will find theories on how the North Americans win / get medals through politics.

I think just yesterday I read on a French board that someone thinks the French are worse at skating politics than the Northern Americans and the Russians.

Perhaps it's simply a part of skating culture?

 

[Mathman]

I think just yesterday I read on a French board that someone thinks the French are worse at skating politics than the Northern Americans and the Russians.

If i were French I would be insulted! Philippe Candeloro won two Olympic medals. M. Gailhaguet rocks!

 

[~tapdancer]

If i were French I would be insulted! Philippe Candeloro won two Olympic medals. M. Gailhaguet rocks!

I could be wrong but I think Medusa was saying that someone said the French actually engage in politics more than NA or Russia. The word "worse" didn't mean that they weren't good at it but rather they were good at it.

 

[Medusa]

I could be wrong but I think Medusa was saying that someone said the French actually engage in politics more than NA or Russia. The word "worse" didn't mean that they weren't good at it but rather they were good at it.

No, I meant that they are not good at it. (I mean, come on - they tried in 2002 and got caught! They can't be too good at it.)

 

[Mathman]

I think every country feels that -- due to their superior moral character -- they are worse at cheating than the other guys.

Hmm. Wait. I mean, they think that the other guys are worse cheaters...

Now that it has been pointed out, that is an inetersting point of word usage.

"Every country's citzens believe that they, being morally superior, are unpracticed and unskilled at the nefarious art of cheating."

 

[ambern024]

I think that Meryl and Charlie should have gotten a medal. I thought they had the best OD and FD this season.:yes:

 

[Tonichelle]

Or would it be better to have a judging panel that did not have a national stake in the outcome?

I'd actually like to see what a panel like that would do.

Evan was able to win his title without a US judge, correct?

 

[~tapdancer]

No, I meant that they are not good at it. (I mean, come on - they tried in 2002 and got caught! They can't be too good at it.)

Good point.

 

[chuckm]

I thought the ice dance results reeked of backroom deal-making. The basic deal: DomShabs wins, Khoklova/Novitski get deep-sixed, and the French teams move up a couple of spots. P/B finished 5th, their highest ever, and Carron/Jost were 9th in their first Worlds by miraculously scoring 10 points higher on their FD than they did at Euros, passing Cappellini/Lanotte (who finished ahead of C/J at Euros).

Moving C/J up required dumping S/B, whose OD should have scored much higher than it did. So it wasn't just D/W who got shafted---all 3 US teams did, and the absence of a US judge on all three segment panels helped make that happen.

Of course, what the French really wanted was to get 3 teams for Vancouver, which didn't quite happen, but it was very close (5+9=14). If Faiella/Scali had had a big mistake in the FD, it could easily have happened.

 

[dorispulaski]

I wonder whether K&N had been informed before the competition that they were being tossed overboard? Their paso reeked of the same kind of defiance as Surya Bonaly's Olympic back flip.

K&N so did not skate as they did when they won Euros.

Either that, or one of them was ill.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I think that Meryl and Charlie should have gotten a medal. I thought they had the best OD and FD this season.:yes:

Thier OD is insanely difficult, and so well presented, but don't forget that Charlie messed up the twizzles at worlds and there was at least one other stumble...that last lift they struggled with in the OD. yet i agree that they skated the freedance perfectly.

 

[life684]

I am so happy for Oksana and Maxim , at last the gold medal at the worlds. As far as politics in sports is concerned, all judging events have them, remember Gymnastics from 2004 Olympics where judges where just gifting points to Americans and this continued until greek crowd got really annoyed and briefly stopped the competition with booing. After this the system was revamped, even then we have judging irregularities.

If their is talk of taking down Ice dancing from Olympics i would like to whole lot of judging events like Moguls, aerials, ski jumping and nordic combined are all removed. you can clearly see score that are really biased along nationalities in these sports as well.

 

[Buttercup]

I thought the ice dance results reeked of backroom deal-making. The basic deal: DomShabs wins, Khoklova/Novitski get deep-sixed, and the French teams move up a couple of spots. P/B finished 5th, their highest ever, and Carron/Jost were 9th in their first Worlds by miraculously scoring 10 points higher on their FD than they did at Euros, passing Cappellini/Lanotte (who finished ahead of C/J at Euros). Pretty much everyone scored higher on the FDs than at Euros, except F/S.

Moving C/J up required dumping S/B, whose OD should have scored much higher than it did. So it wasn't just D/W who got shafted---all 3 US teams did, and the absence of a US judge on all three segment panels helped make that happen.

Of course, what the French really wanted was to get 3 teams for Vancouver, which didn't quite happen, but it was very close (5+9=14). If Faiella/Scali had had a big mistake in the FD, it could easily have happened.

I won't deny there's likely a lot of politicking, but that's a bit too conspiratorial for my taste.

First, re the French teams, I think we saw a correction of P/B's and C/J's low scores, especially the former, who have been held back on account of being the second French team. P/B were seventh last year, and moved up two spots. How many spots did D/W move up? How much did their score improve from 4CC? Why is that not a conspiracy? Because both teams have improved, and their scoring reflected it.

As for Pernelle and Matthieu, C/L were behind them for the first two segments of Euros and only passed them because C/J had a crap FD - which they changed going into Worlds, going back to their Edith Piaf one. BTW, many of the European teams did better on the FD at Worlds than at Euros. Carron/Jost were a first time team but a pretty strong one with a good track record. It's not their fault they couldn't go before, and their placement shouldn't have come as a surprise. In fact, when we were doing predictions, I thought the French might come close to qualifying three teams, because both P/B and C/J had had a good season, and because P/B were to be the top French team, so they would finally get some well-deserved recognition.

S/B were indeed underscored on the OD. I would attribute this mostly to doing relatively poorly in the CD and not getting into the top two groups. Skate early, score badly.Yes, it sucks .

I'm really tired of hearing how the US teams were wuzrobbed. Tanith and Ben aren't/weren't that good and Evan and Emily did pretty well - it was their first year as seniors and most of the teams ahead of them are simply better than they are at this point. You could make a case for D/W, who I'm not a fan of but who I can acknowledge as a technically strong team. Personally, until Meryl and Charlie learn how to better relate to the music they're skating to, I din't want them at the top of the podium.