Men's Short Program: 2013 Skate Canada International

[bekalc]

The truth is, Chan left the door wide open for Hanyu. In my mind, even with the little error on the 4T, had Hanyu not missed the Lutz combo, he would have been first.

Chan was the only guy without a visible error tonight whereas the field pretty much all bombed. A casual skating fan wouldn't even notice Chan made an error in his combo, given how many in this thread were asking whether it was 4-3 or 3-3.

As a result, his "win" is more a result of who sucked less tonight.

Hanyu had a mandatory -3 on his combo while Oda went splat on ice. Somehow, the "I am sick of Chan because he always win crowd overlook those". But hey, don't let logic impede the haters, or the blenders. They are born this way, it's in their DNA.

I don't have a problem with Patrick's win or his scores. I do take into question the two judges who gave Oda, in the 6s for Skating skils. And I don't think Patrick's GOE on his triple axel should have been as high as Oda's or Hanyu's. I'd have given Hanyu's 3 axel a plus 3 (to be frank)....

I find it more troubling that any judge would think Oda' warrants 6s in skating skills.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

I really don't understand the shade that is thrown at Chan. He is a complete skater with lovely full body movement and unmatched feet.

Agreed!

 

[wallylutz]

It doesn't matter wallylutz. 6s for Oda in skating skills is plan ridiculous. The guy has some of the best skating skills in the world. Strict would have been 7.5. That's strict for a skater of Oda's caliber. There's strict and there is low balling a skater.

Oda does have some issues PCS, absolutely but skating skills isn't; one of them.

And the fact is those two judges brought Oda's average down.

One of the mark would have been thrown out anyway, plus, the lower scores affects everyone more or less consistently so I don't have a problem with that. It is no different when in baseball, some umpires are going to stricter than others wrt to their strike zone. So long as he is consistent with all pitchers, that's fine.

I think you misunderstand what these marks mean. Despite the transition into CoP, when a judge marked consistently with every skaters, they still only serve as placeholders. That's why it can be misleading to try to compare scores from two different competitions because that would be akin to tea leaf reading.

Skating early is no excuses, the skating early excuse only illustrates the problem. That skating is reputation based, and that lower ranked/rep skaters get the raw end of the stick. Those judges should be censored.

Even I can notice on my tv, the quality of Oda's skating.

I will argue that SS is an aspect that is very hard for the viewers at home to gauge accurately, especially via a fuzzy internet feed.

 

[SquishyDumpling]

Hanyu seems to be starting to over think his performances instead of just skating. It's such a shame.

 

[flaneur]

It looks like Jeremy's technique is more solid than last year, which bodes well for the future. It's unfortunate that he had a total mental lapse after landing his quad though.

(Yuka's expression when he told her that in the K&C was classic)

 

[bekalc]

One of the mark would have been thrown out anyway, plus, the lower scores affects everyone more or less consistently so I don't have a problem with that. It is no different when in baseball, some umpires are going to stricter than others wrt to their strike zone. So long as he is consistent with all pitchers, that's fine.

I think you misunderstand what these marks mean. Despite the transition into CoP, when a judge marked consistently with every skaters, they still only serve as placeholders. That's why it can be misleading to try to compare scores from two different competitions because that would be akin to tea leaf reading.



I will argue that SS is an aspect that is very hard for the viewers at home to gauge accurately, especially via a fuzzy internet feed.

I think most people who have seen Oda would live that his skating skills are among the very top in the world. His knees are incredibly. He was with in the .50 of Miner overall and that's ridiculous.

And even I on my tv (Not internet feed) can see that Oda has more flow over the ice then Miner... And the lowest anyone got was 5.50 in skating skills, which shows once again the ridiculousness of that ranking for Oda.

 

[sweetskates1]

I think Jeremy looked great out there tonight and he will do well this season with landing quads. If he can perform his FS without errors and a quad - I will explode, I will!!

It looks like Jeremy's technique is more solid than last year, which bodes well for the future. It's unfortunate that he had a total mental lapse after landing his quad though.

(Yuka's expression when he told her that in the K&C was classic)

 

[wallylutz]

I think most people who have seen Oda would live that his skating skills are among the very top in the world. He was with in the .50 of Miner overall and that's ridiculous.

And even I on my tv (Not internet feed) can see that Oda has more flow over the ice then Miner...

In other words, you are the one who is arguing Oda should be marked based on his reputation as having reknown skating skills in the past. Alas, it doesn't work that way. Every competition is different and a great skater can have a so so performance on any given day as was the case here tonight for Mr. Oda.

It's entirely possible those two judges were nitpicking on something, happens all the time.

Maybe it's not the judges who are biased here.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, SquishyDumpling. Thanks for joining us. Post often, post long!

 

[bekalc]

In other words, you are the one who is arguing Oda should be marked based on his reputation as having reknown skating skills in the past. Alas, it doesn't work that way. Every competition is different and a great skater can have a so so performance on any given day as was the case here tonight for Mr. Oda.

It's entirely possible those two judges were nitpicking on something, happens all the time.

Maybe it's not the judges who are biased here.

His skating skills looked excellent. And there were judges who put him in the 8s. I love how quickly you are willing to defend anyone low balling one of Patrick's competitors.

 

[wallylutz]

His skating skills looked excellent. And there were judges who put him in the 8s. I love how quickly you are willing to defend anyone low balling one of Patrick's competitors.

uh...the same 2 judges also low-balled Patrick Chan by a lot...

Plus, I am merely offering possible explanations for the situation, thanks for hurling insults and accusations my way. Those shall be my last words on these, have a nice day.

 

[bekalc]

uh...the same 2 judges also low-balled Patrick Chan by a lot...

Plus, I am merely offering possible explanations for the situation, thanks for hurling insults and accusations my way. Those shall be my last words on these, have a nice day.

Nobody gave Patrick 6s for skating skills... Or even 7s for skating skills which would maybe the equivalent. There's scoring low, and there is purposely low balling a skater.

Once again the lowest skating skill Miner got was a 6.75-tied with Oda's. What kind of judge (at best!) ties Oda and Miner on skating skills?

 

[msteach3]

Hanyu seems to be starting to over think his performances instead of just skating. It's such a shame.

I think it's the pressure of high expectations and the strength of the Japanese team. It'll be a dog fight at Japanese Nationals and he knows it. Maybe this falter on the SP will fire him up for the LP tomorrow and he'll loosen up and let it fly.

 

[phaeljones]

The skates for men generally tonight were disappointing. Feel kind of let down.

Oda's skate was not clean and basically Hanyu had a bad skate. Although Chan's skate was better, the 8 point spread seems a bit rich and it will likely seal the event, making tomorrow night anti-climatic. But really, the other skaters lost the event tonight, and not in a small way, so Chan's score is irrelevant.

Hanyu's performance in the short makes me wonder whether he has been spending too much time working on his long, leaving his short to get stale. Loved his triple axel though. But, generally, he just could not find his zone.

Also, what happened tonight maybe is an indication that too many skaters are giving too much of themselves worrying about "making the quad". The only decent quad tonight was from Abbott and it seemed to throw him off the rest of his program. Honestly, when Chan didn't bother doing a quad, after seeing so many skaters do crappy ones or fall on them, it felt like a breath of fresh air.

The other aspect that I kind of noticed was that it also seemed that a number of skaters had problems adjusting to the size of the arena (but that is not an excuse for anything). I just mention that.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I would score Chan's PCS as 9.0 skating skills, 8.75 transitions, 8.5 performance, 8.25 choreography, 8.0 interpretation.

Would give him +1 GOE on the Triple Axel. He barely got the rotation. No transition leading into it. Really didn't deserve +2 from the whole panel. He was a little overscored on the flying sit (the last position is weak) and the combo spin.

Overall, he was given an extra 4 points from what a I feel an accurate score would be. That makes a big difference. It gives him a whole extra fall in the Long Program.

 

[wallylutz]

I would score Chan's PCS as 9.0 skating skills, 8.75 transitions, 8.5 performance, 8.25 choreography, 8.0 interpretation.

It needs to be said, when BoP's marks for PChan isn't even the lowest from the panel, that says a lot. One of the judges went as far as giving Chan an 8.0 for SS, a whole point lower than BoP would have given.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I would score Chan's PCS as 9.0 skating skills, 8.75 transitions, 8.5 performance, 8.25 choreography, 8.0 interpretation.

Would give him +1 GOE on the Triple Axel. He barely got the rotation. No transition leading into it. Really didn't deserve +2 from the whole panel. He was a little overscored on the flying sit (the last position is weak) and the combo spin.

Overall, he was given an extra 4 points from what a I feel an accurate score would be. That makes a big difference. It gives him a whole extra fall in the Long Program.

Considering your dislike for him I'm surprised you'd be so generous to give a +1! That 3A was cleanly executed with lots of distance and flow and a set of transitions on the landing. +2's were fine... It would have been +3s if he had a transition leading in.

 

[emdee]

I saw ODa at Thornhill and it was a superior skate. I am also live in St. John and he didn't have the same flow.
Patrick almost hit the boards shades of 2011 GPF. He wanted to stay on his feet to quell his detractors , I think.

Patrick's triple axel was really good and confident so not surprising he got the GOE and those feet worked their magic with change of edge constantly increasing difficulty.
Nowhere near Patrick's skate in London which was breathtaking but a very respectable skate. If he had exceeded 90 I think I would have felt him gifted but at 88 I think he was fairly marked.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Considering your dislike for him I'm surprised you'd be so generous to give a +1! That 3A was cleanly executed with lots of distance and flow and a set of transitions on the landing. +2's were fine... It would have been +3s if he had a transition leading in.

LOL, no. That 3Axel was average in height and maybe slightly better than average in distance. Again, the rotation was barely there. He landed right at the 1/4 turn mark. He controlled it well and the exit was good, but the jump itself was not amazing. If a had a transition beforehand that would have made it +2 worthy. How can this jump possibly get a +3 when it is much smaller than many others and barely rotated?

 

[Skater Boy]

Olympic medals should indeed go to those who "deserve" them, meaning the three who have truly and fairly outskated their competitors for 7 minutes and 20 seconds (plus or minus).

I am just hoping Abbott doesn't have it at olympics when they are so many good skaters Iknow that is life but to think he couldnt skate cnosistently for the majority of the times and got lucky at olys would be sad. Besides look at deserve and it is more than just the skate it could be karma, consistency etc. in the pure sense deserve is based on the olympic skates but the overal picture not necessary.