Kovtun vs. Hanyu

[silverfoxes]

It's sort of in the name; so crying in the kiss and cry area is actually very appropriate.
Here is a look at some of the best
(sorry, but this amateur needed to be shown how it's done; next time he can be more dramatic about it)

Evan Lysacek's face in the NHK clip Nobu should have gotten a gold medal for crying, for sure. I'v also seen Daisuke cry, Florent Amodio, Stephane Lambiel, Johnny Weir...and surely plenty of others. Nothing wrong with it.

Maybe I shouldn't, but I feel a little bit sorry for Kovtun. If he still skates the same way in a few years then I would understand writing him off, but he's only 19 and still very capable of improvement. Will he ever be one of my favorites - doubtful. But he's also not the worst one out there and it isn't his fault that he's been hyped up while being relatively mediocre. As for his attitude - can you imagine if social media was around back in the 90s and early 2000s? I read some stories about Yagudin's behavior from TAT's book that were pretty shocking...not to get offtopic, but I'm just saying back in the day it wasn't easy for young skaters to make a fool of themselves online, but they still did dumb things and we just rarely heard about it. Unlike celebrities, most skaters don't have "handlers" or PR people to clean up their messes (and even that hasn't stopped plenty of adult celebs from having Twitter meltdowns).

 

[Meoima]

Maybe I shouldn't, but I feel a little bit sorry for Kovtun. If he still skates the same way in a few years then I would understand writing him off, but he's only 19 and still very capable of improvement. Will he ever be one of my favorites - doubtful. But he's also not the worst one out there and it isn't his fault that he's been hyped up while being relatively mediocre. As for his attitude - can you imagine if social media was around back in the 90s and early 2000s? I read some stories about Yagudin's behavior from TAT's book that were pretty shocking...not to get offtopic, but I'm just saying back in the day it wasn't easy for young skaters to make a fool of themselves online, but they still did dumb things and we just rarely heard about it. Unlike celebrities, most skaters don't have "handlers" or PR people to clean up their messes (and even that hasn't stopped plenty of adult celebs from having Twitter meltdowns).

I am very curious about what Tat said about Yagudin's behavior. Would you mind sharing?
This topic has been off-topiced anyways. Lol

And no, I don't hate Kovtun. But I don't feel much sorry for him. He blew all the chances he had in the past. Yes he is young and he can improve. I don't write him off, I just couldn't like him. He is talented I'd say. When I heard that there is a boy who won over Plushy in national, I googled up his video, watch him on youtube, and I have to say, at first I thought his jumps got good height, then after 1 minute I felt boring. I mean very boring. hwell:

As for the attitude, I'd say I don't think he is a bad guy. He is nice, of course, but a little childish and ignorant. He is not some villain or spoiled beyond rescue. Overall I think he is not bad, just not very likable. And frankly, there are plenty nice people out there, but do we like them all?

 

[shine]

Dear lord shine will you ever stop your little hatred fits
It's your right to dislike someone.
But if you feel like hating on a 16 year old girl who's already achieved more than you ever will and start hunting her on threads that aren't even about her-
Please spare us and do that in your living room as much as you want but not on here. You're only repeating yourself, and it's starting to become boring :disapp::agree:

What the heck are you talking about? Do you know me in real life or any of my personal achievements? You are insulting. In addition, hate is a really strong word and you are applying it VERY loosely. Have you ever been involved in any kind of discussion by adults? Because if you have you would realize that nothing in my post suggests hate - it's called expressing an opinion. But I do have a mild distaste for the intention behind a thread like this started by someone who has a strong need to make fun and mock others simply because they have a different opinion than yourself. And your double standard is so laughable. A thread like this with whatever intention just because some other people dare to like another 16-year-old more than the one you happen to like is somehow NOT considered hatred by you?

 

[silverfoxes]

I am very curious about what Tat said about Yagudin's behavior. Would you mind sharing?
This topic has been off-topiced anyways. Lol

You can read it towards the bottom of this page - translated by the blog author to English. I don't want to dredge up something old that for all I know, might have been discussed on here ad nauseum in the past. But I just thought it was interesting and a little ...he was 19, same age as Kovtun now.

 

[starlight97]

What the heck are you talking about? Hate is a really strong word and you are applying it very losely. I don't hate anyone. But I do distaste it when someone feels such a strong need to make fun and mock others because they have a different opinion than you. And your double standard is so laughable. A thread like this with whatever intention just because some other people dare to like another 16-year-old more than the one you happen to like is somehow NOT considered hatred by you?

Sorry but I did neither create this thread nor the Yulia/Polina one so don't come to me with this problem
I never made fun of Polina or anybody in fact almost nobody did do so.
But you're constantly trying to ridicule Yulia.
This thread is not about her in the slightest so please post these kind of comments you need to make about her somewhere else. That's all I'm gonna say, I'm not one who's into fights

 

[shine]

But you're constantly trying to ridicule Yulia.

Prove it.

This thread is not about her in the slightest so please post these kind of comments you need to make about her somewhere else. That's all I'm gonna say, I'm not one who's into fights

Then don't start one.

 

[starlight97]

Then don't start one.

Jesus Christ you're not an easy one, are you
All good, I didn't start a fight I only tried to tell you that THIS thread is NOT about Yulia so please post your opinions about HER somewhere else.

 

[shine]

Jesus Christ you're not an easy one, are you
All good, I didn't start a fight I only tried to tell you that THIS thread is NOT about Yulia so please post your opinions about HER somewhere else.

Grow up, and then we will talk.

 

[starlight97]

Grow up, and then we will talk.

If you do not know what to say anymore to keep provoking an argument and are unable to say "Yes, you're right I'm on the wrong thread here for this" then there's no need to insult me.

 

[Meoima]

You can read it towards the bottom of this page - translated by the blog author to English. I don't want to dredge up something old that for all I know, might have been discussed on here ad nauseum in the past. But I just thought it was interesting and a little ...he was 19, same age as Kovtun now.

Maybe because I am Asian, we have different thought about education here. But in our culture, if you behave badly in public, people will think less highly your parents, not you. So that's why I said I don't think Kovtun is a bad guy. I think of him as a little spoiled kid. Which meant, the adults around him have spoiled him.

Normally we will not blame young people for their behaviors, we'd say their parents did not taught them well. In this case I feel sorry for Tat. Young people tend to be unpredictable and difficult.

I've heard of what Yagudin did, he deserved to be punished (and he was). People say young people make mistakes, I agree. I think it's understandable, since at that age people tend to get reckless and ignorant. It's not like he committed a crime and should not be forgiven. It's just his attitude need to be readjusted and it was. I don't try to be moral here. Everyone was young once. Frankly everyone makes mistakes now and then.

Yagudin was not a wholeheartedly classy guy off-ice, that I've known already. People who followed their steps in the past know quite well. It's just they had charm on ice, I think Yagudin and Plushy had something the Russian youngsters nowadays don't: utter concentration and competitive spirit.

I like Yagudin and Plushy because of their on-ice performances, before joining this forum I didn't care much about their off-ice activities and history (even though I've heard or those stories in the past).

The thing with Kovtun I have explained already, I am not fond of his attitude on ice (like his postures in to the jumps, his "angry" expression whenever he performs badly or even well...) through many of his performances BEFORE I've known of his off-ice attitude and Instagram and Twitter incidents.

So, I still say that I don't think Kovtun is a bad or classless guy. I think he is a talented young skater whom I am not fond of. A little childish and spoiled young people. But of course I never write him off and I expect him to develop better attitude.

 

[Alba]

But I do have a mild distaste for the intention behind a thread like this started by someone who has a strong need to make fun and mock others simply because they have a different opinion than yourself. And your double standard is so laughable.

Same applies to people like you. Little hypocrites who pretend to not be biased, and attack those who have a different opinion.
So, spare me your ridiculous laments here. Go to your precious topic and discuss Polina and Yulia there.

A thread like this with whatever intention just because some other people dare to like another 16-year-old more than the one you happen to like is somehow NOT considered hatred by you?

No it's not hatred at all because I don't give a damn who you like or who you dislike. Otherwise I would've been commenting to that ridiculous thread.
It's a thread about Kovtun vs Yuzuru. You find that ridiculous? Ignore it then, as I'm doing with Polina vs Yulia topic. Simple.

The problem is not about comparing skaters, even if you want to compare the champion with the last on the list. It's within our rights to do that.
We all have our opinions and taste. The problem is when people try to pass their views and taste as fact, bash anyone who they dislike, and attack other people who do not share their view.
That's hypocrisy, and I mock it.

 

[silverfoxes]

Well, according to Icenetwork.com, Kovtun and Joshua Farris are poised to be the breakout stars this season. Shall we start a "Kovtun vs Farris" thread?

 

[Alba]

I'll just say that I don't think the comparison is accurate and that Edmunds and Lipnitskaya are much closer in overall ability than Kovtun and Hanyu, even if their competitive results are somewhat comparable.

You might think so, fair enough, but I and other people don't. Is that a problem?
Kovtun has won nothing, Yuzuru everything. Polina has won nothing while Yulia has won something.
Kovtun is a different skater from Yuzuru (I'm talking about style) and the same goes for Polina and Yulia, IMO.

So why the girls can be compared and the boys not?

 

[Alba]

Well, according to Icenetwork.com, Kovtun and Joshua Farris are poised to be the breakout stars this season. Shall we start a "Kovtun vs Farris" thread?

Good idea. Kovtun vs Farris. vs Jason, vs Aron, take your pick. Anyone will do.

 

[Meoima]

Good idea. Kovtun vs Farris. vs Jason, vs Aron, take your pick. Anyone will do.

Let me open the thread!!

 

[Alba]

Let me open the thread!!

Good luck with that.

 

[Meoima]

Good luck with that.

Already opened it. Please join me!

 

[cruzceleste]

How did this thread become a Lipnitskaya vrs Edmuds thread???

 

[unico]

How did this thread become a Lipnitskaya vrs Edmuds thread???

Because it was obviously a Lipnitskaya-Edmunds thread from the very first post of the thread.

 

[Alba]

This parody thread is insulting to those who enjoy Edmunds' skating because,

I do enjoy Polina very much. Gracie Gold also but much more Polina. If care to check my post history have a look what I've been saying about her.

Having said that, why is this topic an insult to those who enjoy Edmunds?
People can compare her with all the skaters they want to. Same here with Kovtun. Why is that so different?

This is opposed to Hanyu and Kovtun where nobody on this thread has expressed an opinion in favour of Kovtun over Hanyu in these areas.

Are you suggesting that before creating topic we should put it to a voting system, whether they agree with it or not?

If you think that Edmunds is so inferior a skater to Lipnitskaya, what other purpose was there in starting this thread other than to mock those who enjoy Edmunds, probably knowing that this would be the response.

The thing is I don't think that at all. On the contrary, I think she has great potential and she is a beautiful/talented skater.
I do think that considering her as a strong rival to Yulia and comparing them in that sense is premature, at this stage, yes.
But I'm not bothered at all because people want to compare them as skaters, style, ability as you said etc.

I guess I'll call it an end here and refrain from expressing my opinion on Lipnitskaya even though I've been nothing but rational and non-malicious. It's just not worth the vitriol.

There is a Polina vs Yulia thread already. That might be the best place for it.