- Joined
- Feb 7, 2004
I know the topic of flutzing has been repeated over and over again. But I noticed Mao Asada got a -3 score from one of the judges at her own country for her flutz. Was a bit shocked at first but having thought about it it may not be too much.
If someone's lutz is clearly a flip the the jump is really a flip with a swinging edge before take off. The question arises is how much more difficult is a flip compared to a lutz? When I see the perfect lutzes from Yu Na Kim, say, I think it takes a lot more strength to do a lutz as the whole body and the feet are the wrong way from rotation making the whole jump different and harder. With a flip one can possible prerotate a little and get away with it but with a true lutz one cannot. Now I dont skate will someone who does tell me whether this is true?
The next question is how much a deduction in GOE should be administered? I would argue that any inside edge lutz should get a -3 deduction as a base, and if all other phases are excellent then that should be added accordingly. So Mao Asada's lutzes I think should get -1 or -2 given that everything else is so good. If we think about it, like Joesitz was saying about why jumps are different, it's really only the take off whivh makes the jump different and more difficult. If a triple lutz is 50% more valuable than a lutz (4 vs 6 marks) then actually we can see how one has to do three triple toes to get the marks for two lutzes. Big difference!
Now the other interesting question comes from people who lip. They are essentially making the jump harder and getting penalised for that. Is that justified? I guess if I were a judge I would be less harsh on those who do it like Shizuka and Sarah Meier. But equally I would argue that actually the people who lip have not got the skills to do a DIFFERENT type of jump. The technique is obviously different to a lutz so their jumping skills are less than those who can do both correctly.
Among the top competitors for the ladies its Yu Na who can do both and looks like Miki is catching up (maybe proof it's easier to fix a lip than a flutz). Therefore in the case of lips I would take -1 from the baseline value.
The Russian federation I see have given 2 extra points for girls who do both lutzes and flips off the right edges. This is a good point for the younger girls who are learning to skate where they will learn that a flutz simply will not do when they compete.
If someone's lutz is clearly a flip the the jump is really a flip with a swinging edge before take off. The question arises is how much more difficult is a flip compared to a lutz? When I see the perfect lutzes from Yu Na Kim, say, I think it takes a lot more strength to do a lutz as the whole body and the feet are the wrong way from rotation making the whole jump different and harder. With a flip one can possible prerotate a little and get away with it but with a true lutz one cannot. Now I dont skate will someone who does tell me whether this is true?
The next question is how much a deduction in GOE should be administered? I would argue that any inside edge lutz should get a -3 deduction as a base, and if all other phases are excellent then that should be added accordingly. So Mao Asada's lutzes I think should get -1 or -2 given that everything else is so good. If we think about it, like Joesitz was saying about why jumps are different, it's really only the take off whivh makes the jump different and more difficult. If a triple lutz is 50% more valuable than a lutz (4 vs 6 marks) then actually we can see how one has to do three triple toes to get the marks for two lutzes. Big difference!
Now the other interesting question comes from people who lip. They are essentially making the jump harder and getting penalised for that. Is that justified? I guess if I were a judge I would be less harsh on those who do it like Shizuka and Sarah Meier. But equally I would argue that actually the people who lip have not got the skills to do a DIFFERENT type of jump. The technique is obviously different to a lutz so their jumping skills are less than those who can do both correctly.
Among the top competitors for the ladies its Yu Na who can do both and looks like Miki is catching up (maybe proof it's easier to fix a lip than a flutz). Therefore in the case of lips I would take -1 from the baseline value.
The Russian federation I see have given 2 extra points for girls who do both lutzes and flips off the right edges. This is a good point for the younger girls who are learning to skate where they will learn that a flutz simply will not do when they compete.
. I'm imaging that, if programmed correctly, a judge could pile on the negative GOE to their heart's content, but if a judge incorrectly or inadvertently awarded a 0 or + GOE, even though a wrong edge call was made by the tech spec, the computer program would automatically override the non-negative GOE and default to a -1 GOE for that jump. 
