Jason Brown

karne · Apr 6, 2015

papagena said:
It will be interesting to see what happens. A part of me imagines that real exhaustion could set in post worlds but I guess you just have to push it off a few weeks. Well, he won't be the only skater who has to solve this problem.

This is actually why I think Max might be in a real chance of not just medalling, but even, maybe...

Because everyone else on the team lists was at Worlds, but he's come off a three-month break with no comps, and new programs.

Wouldn't it be cool if they both medalled?! :yay:

Sam-Skwantch said:
Any chance hell try a quad at WTT?

I can't imagine so. I mean, ideally, this would be the comp to do it - the only thing on the line is prize money - but at this point of the season, even Jason has to be getting pretty tired, so...probably not a great idea to risk it.

Mrs. P · Apr 6, 2015

karne said:
This is actually why I think Max might be in a real chance of not just medalling, but even, maybe...

Because everyone else on the team lists was at Worlds, but he's come off a three-month break with no comps, and new programs.

Wouldn't it be cool if they both medalled?! :yay:
.

Do individual skaters get medals though? I don't see anything in the announcement....
(http://isuprod.blob.core.windows.net/media/188306/wtt2015_announcement_final.pdf)

karne · Apr 6, 2015

Mrs. P said:
Do individual skaters get medals though? I don't see anything in the announcement....
(http://isuprod.blob.core.windows.net/media/188306/wtt2015_announcement_final.pdf)

Hmmmmm...I was pretty sure they did, but I may be mistaken.

Oh, I know! Jason and Max should replicate the epic Menshov/Trankov moment from 2013!

andromache · Apr 6, 2015

As for the perennial quad question for Jason...this late in the season, I'd rather see him performing the quadless program layouts that he's most comfortable with. And speaking of Jason's programs, any word/speculation on if he'll be keeping one of his current programs for next season? I wouldn't mind seeing the evolution of Tristan and Isolde over another season because I think there's depth to that music that he could do more with (plus the new costume makes me take it more seriously, to be honest), but I'm personally hoping he tries something new and different for the SP next season. He did new and different well this season with Juke, but ultimately I don't think it plays to his strengths.

Tavi... · Apr 6, 2015

So...if Jason was perfect and the judges recognized it with maximum +GOE he could score 92.71. Now that makes me curious - how close have Yuzu and Patrick Chan come to getting maximum GOE? It often seems to me that judges hand GOE out like candy, too, not just PCS, eg that it is somewhat reputation based. For example when someone isn't dinged the full -3 GOE because...well, it would have been great if they hadn't fallen. I'm rambling but I guess I wonder how close Jason could come to perfect GOE and never need the quad to win. Of course that's a lot of pressure to be perfect....

Karne I also think that Max, as one of the only skaters with fresh legs, could be at an advantage.

But what was the Menshov / Trankov moment?

StitchMonkey · Apr 6, 2015

I don't think we have an official word on next season.

Around Nebelhorn Kori had mentioned keeping T&I for two seasons to master the quad. But around Worlds Jason made some comments about new stuff for next season that seemed to indicate it would not be staying.

I would be fine with T&I sticking around. I don't think I would want both to stick around. I would be fine with Juke sticking around, but I think it may be near its scoring limit and he may do better with something else. I like Juke, but think Question of You was better so I hope to see something more like that next season. He may not want to try to win Nationals twice with the same programs, so I would not be surprised at all to see two new ones.

Mrs. P · Apr 7, 2015

papagena said:
So...if Jason was perfect and the judges recognized it with maximum +GOE he could score 92.61. Now that makes me curious - how close have Yuzu and Patrick Chan come to getting maximum GOE? It often seems to me that judges hand GOE out like candy, too, not just PCS, eg that it is somewhat reputation based. For example when someone isn't dinged the full -3 GOE because...well, it would have been great if they hadn't fallen. I'm rambling but I guess I wonder how close Jason could come to perfect GOE and never need the quad to win. Of course that's a lot of pressure to be perfect....

Karne I also think that Max, as one of the only skaters with fresh legs, could be at an advantage.

But what was the Menshov / Trankov moment?

Yuzuru's personal best TES is 54.84, from Sochi.

Here was his +GOE

4T (2.86/3.00 - 2 out of 7 judges gave him +2)
FCSp4 (1.00 out of 1.5 - Mostly +2, only one +1)
CSSp3 (.79 out of 1.5; one +3, four +2, four +1)
3A(x) (2.14 out of 3.00; seven +2, two +3)
3Z-3T(x) (1.50 out of 2.1; three +3, four +2, two +1)
StSq4 (1.80 out of 2.1; five +3; four + 2)
CCoSp4 (.79 out of 1.5; five +2, four +1)

Patrick's personal best TES is 52.70, from World Championships 2013.

Here was his +GOE
4T-3T (1.57 out of 3 - one +3, four +2, four +1)
3A (2.00 out of 3 - one +3, seven +2, one +1)
CCSp4 (.79 out of 1.5 - five +2, three +1, one 0)
3Z(x) (1.3 out of 2.1 - one +3, six +2, two +1)
FSSp3 (1.07 out of 1.5 - two +3, six +2, one +1)
StSq4 (1.8 out of 2.1 - five +3, four +2)
CCoSp4 (1.07 out of 1.5 - two +3, six +2, one +1)

He actually got better +GOE in some elements at Trophee Eric Bompard (52.34 TES)
4T-3T (1.86 out of 3)
3A (1.57 out of 3)
CCSp3 (.64 out of 1.5)
3Zx (1.5 out of 2.1)
FSSp4 (1.07 out of 1.5)
StSq (2.00 out of 2.1---just two +2s)
CCosp4 (1.00 out of 1.5)

Yuzuru constantly gets +2 or higher on his 3A and his 3A combos and his 4T, but he hasn't gotten a perfect +3 on either element in ISU international competition. Patrick has received a 2.1 (+3 across the board) in his level 4 step sequence during the 2013-2014 Grand Prix Final. He came close (2.0) at the Olympics and Trophee Eric Bompard in 2014-2015 season.

Patrick's calling card has been his higher PCS relative to Yuzuru. That gap started to close during the Olympic year.

I think judges are stingy giving perfect +GOE, as illustrated by the examples above. And I'm not sure if Jason can actually achieve perfect +GOE with some of his elements, namely his edge jumps (3A and 3Lo).

Mrs. P · Apr 7, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
I don't think we have an official word on next season.

Around Nebelhorn Kori had mentioned keeping T&I for two seasons to master the quad. But around Worlds Jason made some comments about new stuff for next season that seemed to indicate it would not be staying.

I would be fine with T&I sticking around. I don't think I would want both to stick around. I would be fine with Juke sticking around, but I think it may be near its scoring limit and he may do better with something else. I like Juke, but think Question of You was better so I hope to see something more like that next season. He may not want to try to win Nationals twice with the same programs, so I would not be surprised at all to see two new ones.

Since he became a senior nationally in the 2010-2011 season, the Question of U program is the only program he kept for a second season. So he's never kept a FS for another season.

FS:
2011 - Nessua Dorma
2012 - Flow Like Water
2013 - Liebestraum
2014 - Riverdance
2015- Tristian and Ineult

I would also prefer for him to keep Tristian and Ineult over Juke. But who knows.

Tavi... · Apr 7, 2015

Mrs P I like the targets you suggest in post 3438 and hope he achieves them. But what I really hope is that he skates those two programs more cleanly and more beautifully than he did at worlds and then however the judges score him is how they score him.

Re new programs: I am really of two minds. He has improved his performance of Juke tremendously and I enjoy it much more than I did early in the season. But a lot of people still dislike it and find it cheesy. It still doesn't grab me the way Prince did immediately, and he's never achieved as good a score internationally with it as he did with a Prince. So if he's only letting one program go, that would be the one to get rid of, IMO.

I have always loved the long program, and love it even more with the new costume and choreo added. But here again, many people object to the music + sound effects as tacky. So even with thus program, I wonder if he's putting himself at a disadvantage. Could be that the changes will soften some of the dislike, tho.

I would love to see one program that emphasizes his innate musicality, edges and flow. He's gotten so much criticism about being "just" an entertainer. But I was looking at an old thread from the other forum dating back to when he made his senior debut in 2011 and people were raving about his speed (!) power, edges, flow and musicality - all the stuff people don't give him credit for today. I would like them to bring those qualities forward again.

I must also confess that I would love to see him do a new short to salsa music, with strong rhythm and lyrics, in Spanish! I know just the piece, too....by Marc Anthony....

ETA Mrs P thx for the additional GOE and PCS info on Patrick & Yuzu. I see now why higher BV is so desirable.

el henry · Apr 7, 2015

Mrs. P said:
Since he became a senior nationally in the 2010-2011 season, the Question of U program is the only program he kept for a second season. So he's never kept a FS for another season.

FS:
2011 - Nessua Dorma
2012 - Flow Like Water
2013 - Liebestraum
2014 - Riverdance
2015- Tristian and Ineult

I would also prefer for him to keep Tristian and Ineult over Juke. But who knows.

On the other hand, he skated Can't Touch This for more than one season, didn't he? Which means Cotton Eyed Joe ain't going anywhere:disapp:

At least I can take comfort that the drawer of the Japanese fan art (See Bromance thread) loves Juke and the shoulder shake too.

andromache · Apr 7, 2015

The reason I asked about the possibility of programs sticking around for another season is because I remember reading somewhere that Riverdance was meant to be kept for a second season, but after it became such a hit after US Nationals Kori realized that such a popular program would be more of a liability than an asset (i.e. it had already had that perfect "moment" and couldn't be topped in subsequent performances.) If they plan on adding the quad next season, it might be smart to keep T&I around (as Josh is keeping Give Me Love to introduce the quad into his SP), and T&I hasn't had a magic moment like Riverdance did (yet). At the same time, I totally understand the "winning Nationals with the same program" perspective that might make it worth changing both programs.

I really admire all of your number-crunching, Mrs. P. :biggrin:

While doing this number crunching, have you come across a specific element that consistently gets the highest GOE for Jason? I'm curious as to what his "money" element might be, if he has one aside from his overall consistency. (If not, don't go through any unnecessary math to answer my question! I should've taken a math course in college solely for my love of figure skating :laugh:

).

StitchMonkey · Apr 7, 2015

el henry said:
On the other hand, he skated Can't Touch This for more than one season, didn't he? Which means Cotton Eyed Joe ain't going anywhere:disapp:

At least I can take comfort that the drawer of the Japanese fan art (See Bromance thread) loves Juke and the shoulder shake too.

I will hold out hope he will see the benefit to having a new exhibition. But he does seem to enjoy it.

el henry said:
I must also confess that I would love to see him do a new short to salsa music, with strong rhythm and lyrics, in Spanish! I know just the piece, too....by Marc Anthony....

And you are not going to tell us which one. Bah.

I would be find with Spanish lyrics, but would fear it turning into that year's POTO. I could easily see a season soon where everyone thinks Spanish lyrics is a good idea, or just Salsa with lyrics, or Latin with lyrics. . . i fear something like this is going to be overly fashionable very soon.

As for Jason goals - His PB SP Technical is 45.98 from GP Trophee Bompard 2013. I think besting his oldest personal best would be a great goal. The next oldest PB is his Olympic SP score, but having a PB from the Olympics is not so bad.

StitchMonkey · Apr 7, 2015

Another thing to consider is that a new program can show a new style for him as well. This year both his programs were a bit different and new for him, and showcased him in a different light. To me that is a good thing. References have been made to team Koro wanting him to grow as a skater and push him in more directions. So they may want to showcase two more Jasons next season as well.

It is a tough call really. I think there are major advantages to keeping at least one, but I think i am guessing that we will see two new ones. My guess is, they want to get used to doing so in order to have two new ones ready for Olympic season. If they do two new each year until then, they should be used to it.

ice coverage · Apr 7, 2015

Super-random comment:

Strikes me as curious :think: that the TV Asahi WTT page makes no attempt to transliterate Juke into Japanese characters.

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/figure/wtt2015/players/USA.html

Mrs. P said:
Do individual skaters get medals though? I don't see anything in the announcement....
(http://isuprod.blob.core.windows.net/media/188306/wtt2015_announcement_final.pdf)

karne said:
Hmmmmm...I was pretty sure they did, but I may be mistaken.

Oh, I know! Jason and Max should replicate the epic Menshov/Trankov moment from 2013!

I believe karne is correct that individual skaters do get WTT medals for the results within disciplines.

Sticks in my mind that I was pleasantly surprised in 2013 to find out (prob. from GS

) that the top three entries per discipline had received individual WTT medals.

I had not been expecting any individual medals then -- they were not mentioned in the 2013 WTT announcement either, IIRC.

BTW, re Jason, Max, and Jason's aforementioned FB page:
Kind of tickled that the cover photo for Jason's FB page still shows Jason, Max, Hannah, and Sammi in spring 2013 with the Golden Gate Bridge in the bkgd.

https://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Brown/1423676034
https://www.facebook.com/IceDreamsT...=55B7852F&size=960,640&fbid=10152357000246953

Jason must have really liked that scenic shot with good friends

.
But maybe it also is an accidental indicator that his FB activity dropped off around that time ... as his activity on Twitter and (later Instagram) started soaring.

StitchMonkey · Apr 7, 2015

golden411 said:
Super-random comment:

Strikes me as curious :think: that the TV Asahi WTT page makes no attempt to transliterate Juke into Japanese characters.

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/figure/wtt2015/players/USA.html

Hmmm is there like a character for an old iPod (or tantamount device) but conveyed as a physical location?

Mrs. P · Apr 7, 2015

el henry said:
On the other hand, he skated Can't Touch This for more than one season, didn't he? Which means Cotton Eyed Joe ain't going anywhere:disapp:

At least I can take comfort that the drawer of the Japanese fan art (See Bromance thread) loves Juke and the shoulder shake too.

Not exactly. He only had the Can't Touch This exhibition for 1.2 seasons. I say that because he had a completely different exhibition (to "A Drop in the Ocean" by Ron Pope) that he had in the 2011-2012 season and kept for the first part of the 2012-2013 season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoknCi5VkFc

He did the Can't Touch This exhibition at Jr. Worlds 2013 and kept it for the 2013-2014 season (including for SOI).

I would not mind if he went back to more lyrical exhibitions. Actually, it's my first time watching that 2012 exhibition.

Also in the deep archives is this other exhibition done exactly one time (to Sinatra's Fly Me to the Moon from 2013): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow7mKHpEWik

andromache said:
I really admire all of your number-crunching, Mrs. P. While doing this number crunching, have you come across a specific element that consistently gets the highest GOE for Jason? I'm curious as to what his "money" element might be, if he has one aside from his overall consistency. (If not, don't go through any unnecessary math to answer my question! I should've taken a math course in college solely for my love of figure skating ).

Thank you!

HIs spins are definitely huge money elements. In particular, the changing edge camel spin has been a huge hit. And he DID get a perfect +3 across the board at Nebelhorn Trophy (it was under that spilt judge panel -- 5 judges; 4 gave +3 one gave +2, but I guess the +2 was thrown out) and came pretty dang close at 4CC (he got seven +3 one +2 and one jerk who gave him a +1 ha!)

I also think he could get close to perfect +GOE in his tano 3Z and in his 3F-3T. He earned 1.5 at 4CC (two +3, six +2 and again one +1). He also earned a 1.5 (same +GOE distribution as his 3F-3T above) on his tano lutz at the Olympics SP.

ETA: One more long-lost exhibition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf2uQMOhIeg <--- Christmas 2010 at the Galleria Dallas to "Let it Snow." That is a tree in the middle. :biggrin:

andromache · Apr 7, 2015

Mrs. P said:
HIs spins are definitely huge money elements. In particular, the changing edge camel spin has been a huge hit. And he DID get a perfect +3 across the board at Nebelhorn Trophy (it was under that spilt judge panel -- 5 judges; 4 gave +3 one gave +2, but I guess the +2 was thrown out) and came pretty dang close at 4CC (he got seven +3 one +2 and one jerk who gave him a +1 ha!)

I also think he could get close to perfect +GOE in his tano 3Z and in his 3F-3T. He earned 1.5 at 4CC (two +3, six +2 and again one +1). He also earned a 1.5 (same +GOE distribution as his 3F-3T above) on his tano lutz at the Olympics SP.

Thanks! I assumed Jason's spins were his money elements (they're so fast!) but I like having the numbers broken down to see which spin is his best. It's also nice to see how well his well-executed jumps are routinely rewarded, considering he's generally not perceived as a strong jumper because of the lack of quad. I feel like Kori is pacing him so that when he does have the quad, it won't ruin his other great elements like the triple jumps and the spins, which we oftentimes see skaters not do their best on after accomplishing magnificent quads. I hope the strategy works :cheer:

.

dorispulaski · Apr 7, 2015

Mrs. P, I had never seen that Sinatra exhibition before. Thank you :cheer:

for posting it! Too bad he didn't keep it! It was lovely! I particularly like the bit with reversing walleys into a 2A :love:

dorispulaski · Apr 7, 2015

some really early Jason Ex
2008 Skate for Hope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MsCxBZFSKo
Interview from Skate for Hope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdogNHFaB9A

2009 at the Rink Opening at Wrigley Park
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f383kZwZFg8

plushyfan · Apr 7, 2015

dorispulaski said:
some really early Jason Ex
2008 Skate for Hope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MsCxBZFSKo
Interview from Skate for Hope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdogNHFaB9A

2009 at the Rink Opening at Wrigley Park
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f383kZwZFg8

thanks

:thumbsup:

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