2014-2018 Mens in Review: Rise of the #sQuad

[Danny T]

So, Milano 2018 concludes the end of this Olympics quad. I think it is undeniable the past four years have pushed the technical boundary of men's figure skating tremendously, largely due to the current top men. Aside from the veterans (Patrick, Javier, Yuzuru), I want to highlight the batch of fresh faces. Commonly called the #sQuad (squad of quadsters - say that ten times ), they're Shoma Uno, Nathan Chen, Boyang Jin. So I want to ask:

1) Who is your favourite?

2) Who do you think has the best jump & spin techniques? Skating skills, transitions, interpretation, performance, composition? On skating skills, how would you break them down, and how do the three differ from each other (strengths/weakness in any particular areas)?

3) Which senior programmes do you find most impressive from them?

4) Who do you think has grown the most since they turn senior?

Personally, if I have to choose I'll go with Boyang. Sure, he's not the best at skating skills and performance out of the three, but I love that he made a lot of progress. He's come a very long way from his noodle stumbling around on skates days, he's got more glide now, and his jumps are still as good, if not better than ever. I would say he's more of a toe jumper, but his take-off technique is sound, landing is fine but could have been better. He's a fun guy, and his fun programmes highlight that very well. I'm quite impressed with his "Crouching Tiger" programme this season, wonderful showing at all 3 4CC, Olys & Worlds. Out of the PCS categories, his transitions are the most problematic, I would like for him to do more transition into jumps. Keep improving Boyang

Shoma is the most pleasing to watch for me. Sometimes he might be overscored, but he wins PCS hands-down compared to the sQuad. Great skating skills, wonderful musicality (although I have enough of Italian opera now thanks Shoma), and his combos at the end of this season make a wonderful climax to his otherwise ok-ish LP. My biggest gripe with Shoma has always been jumps, but he has been trying to fix them so finger-crossed.

Nathan, obviously, has the most number of quads. Not only that, he has correct technique on all of them. I think he's also more of a toe jumper? He has great stamina and relatively high consistency of the quads he is comfortable with. He inherits the problem of 3A from another Cha(e)n (same surname ) - while he splats less (I think) his landing is super scratchy, nearly coming to a stand still. His other quads don't have great landings either - opposite to Shoma's super(human) bent knees, Nathan's are very stiff. PCS-wise, Nathan has potential he almost never shows in competition. His exhibition and competitive skate look like they are by different skaters. Judging by PCS potential, he has more than Boyang right now; by what they put on the ice, I would say they are roughly the same. He is the only one that IMHO regresses after turning senior out of the three, but it might be a temp strategy for 2018 Olys, so hopefully the end of Olympics season bring about more positive change.

Honourable mentions: Mikhail Kolyada (his programmes are not the most inspiring for me, but I like his SS, don't think he has technique problem, his lutz is out of this world, but he needs to land them though ), Dmitri Aliev (some jump problems, but entertaining skates when he's on), and Vincent Zhou (also lots of quads, frequent UR though, worst SS and PCS in general compared to the guys here, can always improve)

Note: not trying to flame fanwars. I hope we can stay civil, and everyone is welcome to an opinion

 

[chopinskate]

Great topic.

For now:

Nathan: Definitely a good toe jumper. Scratchy quads due to poor alignment in landings. Poor knee bend = poor flow, too.

Shoma: Edge jumper. Quad landings are bad due to poor landing alignment (and, well, several other reasons), salvaged by strong core, stature, and knee bend.

Boyang: Excellent toe jumper, solid edge jumps. Good alignment in landings, and getting better knee bend has helped him get better landings and flow -- see 4CC.

 

[echeveria]

I like all three of them for different reasons, although Shoma is my favorite (if you couldn't already tell)

Shoma: my favorite programs from him are probably his 2015/16 SP Legends and 2016/17 FS Loco, out of three his jumps are probably the weakest, but not terrible. I love his edge jumps, especially his axel. I think that his knee saves him from his technique. My favorite thing about him is his artistry.
Nathan: his jumps usually look really powerful, although his edge jumps aren't the best, i think his SP is usually much better than his FS showing more artistry and skating skills. His stamina and the sheer number of jumps he does is amazing, although his programs generally aren't my favorite.
Boyang: i think he's a really good mix of technical and artistic, his lutz is beautiful, I love him off of the ice as well. I never get worried about his landings, they look smooth and flow well into each element (just pretend Worlds didn't happen). Boyang might not have the interpretational skills, but he's a really good performer and he knows what the audience wants to see.

 

[chopinskate]

Uno: The better overall quality skater. Not my cup of tea at all, but I can acknowledge his qualities (finesse, connecting movement to the music), even if it's not something I prefer (his movement looks very contrived at times, and he can't transform with the music yet -- like in Loco, where everything he did was to the music, but the feeling of a Tango was never evoked through his movement).

Jin: The most honest movement for me, but not refined yet. Needs to extend his movement through the notes and really start creating cohesion. He projects well during his step sequences and choreographic sequences, when given the opportunity. Needs to work at trying to perform through steps, however, like in the 4CC SP, where he was showing good musicality, but his face was sometimes focused on the steps. But in the Olys, this wasn't a problem. Would have ranked his PE component for the SP very highly there.

Chen: A weakness of his is his projection to me, and Shae-Lynn Bourne was really clever with the way she made him leap and use his ballet arms to project outwards. His strength right now to me is just his packaging (it previously was how he could do the choreography, even if not with the best execution), but he got rid of that slowly throughout this season, and has slowly weathered down his ability to interpret, which wasn't a strength anyway. He can transform with the music better than Shoma, though. His programs weren't balletic like last year, and he didn't look like he was struggling. I've also been told that his turns are his strength, and Bourne packaged him well in his SP to showcase that.

 

[shine]

I completely disagree Chen and Jin are about the same on PCS. Even if Nathan does little transitions in his programs, he still clearly carries with him years of dance training throughout and is still head and shoulders above Jin in terms of lines and extension, quality and understanding of movement, fluidity, body awareness, AND musicality.

 

[Danny T]

Well, I would agree Nathan at Rostelecom deserves higher PCS than Boyang (beating him on PE, IN & CO), but I still think Nathan at Olys & World would roughly have the same PCS. Here's my subjective take on their LPs (although I don't like either):

- Skating skills: There's not much to go on for this, both are not great. I don't like Nathan's flat edges, and Boyang tends to hop on his skates instead of keeping them to the ice.

- Transitions: Again, they both barely have any, so I'll put around the same.

- Performance: They each have strong points, but not all. I agree Nathan has better postures, lines/extensions and carriage, Boyang's upper body control is not ideal. But I would give Boyang audience projection and individuality/personality; I find Nathan too absorbed in preparing his jumps.

- Composition: This I tend to lean towards Boyang more. Even if I hate the jagged music cuts in his LP, he has choreography. Nathan took out tons of choreography, his ChSq is one (1) spread eagle. I watch online so I'm not confident to say which has better ice coverage - would appreciate if anyone has data.

- Interpretation: This one could go either way, depending on which skates it is. Generally, I agree Nathan has better musicality. But when he is in the zone for 6 quads, he did miss the music at Olympics. Boyang is rather average throughout, but I think he vibes better with fun music.

So there, my logic for about the same PCS. Not the exact same for each category, but adding up to be roughly similar.

 

[chopinskate]

- Interpretation: This one could go either way, depending on which skates it is. Generally, I agree Nathan has better musicality. But when he is in the zone for 6 quads, he did miss the music at Olympics. Boyang is rather average throughout, but I think he vibes better with fun music.

You don't have to be in the zone for 6 quads. Simply put, Nathan can't do any quads out of steps. You need to do steps in order to interpret music while you're attempting difficult jumps. Nathan's technique isn't that secure yet. He acknowledged music cues using his arms rather weakly and did some relatively simple steps so he could do quads more easily.

Saves energy for all those quads, too.

His PE, of course, suffered because of the reason you mentioned.

For that matter, I don't see how Nathan has as much musicality in his LP as most seem to think. He is one of those people who start losing stamina towards the end of the program. Guess why? IMO, this is one of the main reasons the ChSq was toned down so much as the season went on (and the final spin -- no longer goes into a scratch spin at the end, which suited the music so much more). (or maybe he just wanted to add a quad and ran out of time at the end, as he would've had to prepare for the quad -- in Nationals he did 5 quads, in Rostelecom he did 4). He repeatedly missed music cues for his 3 jump combo throughout the season after Rostelecom, and completely skated through them in the Olympic LP, and even at Nationals. He sometimes misses music cues in his spins -- courtesy of low stamina, and because he needs to get the spin levels in after spending all that time on quads. Lori Nichol gave him very obvious moments to showcase musicality, like when he goes into a spread eagle and then moves his head to the bell chimes, but the less obvious elements are pretty mistimed. Also, since he lacks flow out of quads, he has to rush to the next element -- another reason I can see why they took out a lot of choreography, because then he wouldn't have to rush as much.

Boyang simply didn't have much to interpret in his LP. He doesn't do steps into quads, either, but the payoff is more for the set-up, and the 4Lz is timed well. When he does have the chance, like in his ChSq, he comes alive with the music, and does a good job. Or the silly Darth Vader breath sounds. He has nice glide -- something that was used not to full effect after the ChSq to the sweeping voices. He does miss cues in his StSq there because he lacked the stamina (also why he couldn't get the level 4, I think), and in the final spin.

---

Another note -- not everyone has to have a balletic line or carriage. There are different types of music in the world. I found it extremely annoying that people were complaining about Yuzuru's "carriage" in his 2017 programs, when those don't need carriage -- one is rock and roll, the other is some form of free style contemporary/modern. Yuna Kim had several beautiful qualities about the way she carried herself, even balletic arms, but not straight up ballet arms.

You are free to like whatever you want, however I'm letting you know that this is an extremely narrow point of view.

 

[Danny T]

You don't have to be in the zone for 6 quads. Simply put, Nathan can't do any quads out of steps. You need to do steps in order to interpret music while you're attempting difficult jumps. Nathan's technique isn't that secure yet. He acknowledged music cues using his arms rather weakly.

Oh I agree. I'm not naturally very attuned to music, so it wasn't until Nathan's later skates of the season with the additional quad that his problems became glaring to me. That's what I meant about the 6-quad programme. His missed cues at the Olympics were quite clear - I wasn't even actively paying attention to notice them.

 

[Neenah16]

I think all three are a work in progress with a lot of potential for growth.

Boyang is on a clear path and I feel more assurance about him than the other two. He seems to know what he needs to work on and is taking the right steps to get there. I think he is s great performer with huge personality, but he needs stronger technique to back it up and showcase his talent.

Shoma is lovely to watch and is really good at using his whole body to interpret the music. I feel that he needs to branch out in his music choices and try new choreographers since his programs are starting to look a bit similar. He does have an issue with his jumps that I know he is working on but not sure how much he can actually fix, as many people said that reworking you jump technique is extremely difficult. I hope he does fix it because he really is the closest to a complete package.

Nathan was a huge disappointment for me this season. I loved his music choices and the programs were very promising but by the time I got to see them live at Worlds both were a skeleton of a program with very little substance. I will wait and see what he does next season with no Olympics pressure on him but I admit I am not very optimistic.

My take on Nathan may sound too negative but that is because I had the highest hopes for him and was really disappointed with his performance. I am happy he managed to win all those medals but I know he is better than what he put out there so I can't really be satisfied with just that.

 

[schizoanalyst]

This is way too long. I didn't realize how much I wrote until I was done so feel free to ignore lol.

I do want to say though, I wish we were talking about individual performances because all of these things vary more significantly than I think the scoring usually suggests (and yes, that includes even aspects like skating skills). I won't attach any PCS numbers since I'm not gonna be the first to enter that fight, I will if someone else goes for it, but for now just my general assessments.

Depends on the day and the performance and the program for me but overall Uno is the best skater. I find something to like in all of them, however.

Jumps: Jin. He gets nice pop and height, his technique is pretty good. Flow and snap could be a bit better on combos, but not bad. Chen doesn’t quite get the knee bend he needs to maintain the landings so they get a bit messy sometimes, and his axel is just wonky. But if he gets them right, Chen’s jumps are nice. Uno has that lovely knee bend so his jumps can have nice flow out, but the technique isn’t great, the height could be better, the landings are swingy, and the rotation is often questionable. Uno’s triple axel can be nice though and the +1Lo+3F is great to see.

Spins: Uno. Though I wouldn’t say any of them are fantastic. Uno has better fluidity, better speed, decent control, and can hit more interesting positions and variations in his spins. Chen sometimes gets a little sloppy, speed could be better, and sometimes his foot change and position changes are decent, other times not so much. And Chen doesn’t really hit any particularly interesting positions. That might be okay if his basic camel position was spectacular, for example, but it simply isn’t anything remarkable in its extension or speed or position. Both of their extensions could be better. Jin’s position changes can be a bit clunky sometimes, but he can have nice control on the entrances (particularly flying) and his camel has decent extension - but he frequently loses quite a bit of speed during a spin.

Skating Skills: Uno for me. He has superior posture, more rhythmic knees, balance, and his use of his lean to get a more powerful and effortless glide - it’s not comparable to the other two. Uno also has a precision to the way he holds his blades. But I would like to see him dig his edges in a bit more. Chen can do great edge work, but it comes and goes and sometimes it’s very flat bladed. He does have a cleanness and crispness to his turns in the steps and can define them well with great control, at least in certain performances. He's been somewhat variable over the season (though his scores haven't reflected the variation significantly). Chen needs cleaner stroking and more glide. His posture, knees, and weight shift to really gain a glide and speed that doesn’t seem labored to achieve just isn’t there. Jin isn’t quite there either, but he has improved on that front. I think his glide is noticeably more powerful and effortless. I find him carrying more speed so he doesn’t have to do as many little forward crossovers to build up momentum as he has previously done. Jin could pick up his feet a bit more during his strokes and I’d like to see more clean and deep turns. I don’t think Jin’s been given the credit for some of the improvements we’ve seen.

Transitions/Field Movements: Choreographic question partially, particularly when it comes to field movements. I would like to see all of them have more involved transitions, particularly into their jumps - but I understand that some leeway has to be given for footwork into 4Lz/4F/4Lo a bit. Uno is a winner here I think. Uno’s cantilever, eagle into the axel etc. I do think he uses the eagle excessively though - into his 3As, as a field move, as a step preceding his 3Lo. His other elements have relatively simple turns and steps into them. Chen and Jin both do relatively basic turns or set-up entrances into their jumps. I do like that Jin does the 3F right into an illusion turn into his sit spin in his FS though. Chen does have nice spread eagles as a field movement but that's about it, and that’s his choreographic sequence and I wouldn’t count that too strongly since it seems like double dipping. I would rank Jin>Chen generally I think, primarily on the ability to enter spins with minimal setup out of other elements (like the 3F+illusion I mentioned), but it depends on the program.

Performance: Depends on the performance and I’ve seen it vary significantly from each competitor. Uno has the best carriage - his fluidity, his ease. But Uno lacks distinctiveness and individuality for me, whereas Chen and Jin have recognizability, individuality and distinctiveness. I find Uno has the greatest commitment to his choreography - he’s always very attentive to details of the music and the placing of his body and hands. He’s often doing a choreographic feature (even if it’s not the best choice) whereas Chen and Jin neglect attention to the music sometimes - particularly during back-to-back jump section (especially Chen in the FS). Uno and Chen have the most crisp and clear movements, refined lines and precise placements (with Uno being superior again). Chen and Uno also have decent bodily awareness and placement of their limbs, whereas Jin sometimes is lacking in this area. Uno is the best here - he always is holding himself fairly precisely. Jin can sometimes get a bit sloppy with his arm placements. There is just a certain clarity in their movements than Uno and to a lesser extent Chen have that edge out Jin. Uno has also the most variety in his movements and shapes and angles of his body. Chen is really capable of throwing and unfurling himself, so he handles blustery music like Nemesis reasonably well (at least in the steps), but he’s a “big motion” skater and doesn’t handle nuances or simple gestures particularly well. I would say Jin can handle smaller-scale gesturing better than Chen somewhat. But projection wise, all of them need some work I think. But this is where, for me, Jin gains some ground on the other competitors. During his spins and steps he’s capable of exuding a certain excitement and joy that’s infectious. I would like to see more connection during introspective or calmer sections of the music. Chen seems completely distracted and inward during the FS (the only exception is during the choreo sequence if he had a good skate) and occasionally seems a bit interior to himself even in his explosive SP (Skate America being an exception imo). In his FS, there is no nod to the audience or projecting beyond himself. Uno is sometimes almost too precise, too involved with the choreography - it’s too mechanical and leaves no freedom and no space for the audience to engage him.

Composition: This has more to do with choreographers I guess. It really depends on the specific program we are talking about here. Choreographically+Composition wise, I would say Uno’s Piazzola program was the best long and Chen’s Nemesis was the best short (particularly if Chen could better his spins to characterize the music and we had footwork into the 4F). But Chen's FS feels very empty. I don’t want to spend too much time on this because this isn’t about the skaters per-se and we’d have to break down each individual performance since my marks would vary substantially between each SP+FS. I will say that I do not think Lori Nichol is the right choreographer for Jin though and he’d be served better with someone who knows how to work with really giddy, playful music without turning it into a gimmick feel. Bourne, however, is a perfect choreographer for Chen. Uno’s programs feel somewhat recycled - the motions, the turns, the carriage, the gestures - never seem to vary enough from program to program, even with radical changes in music. I’d like to see him branch out into a different choreographer.

Interpretation: I would say overall Uno takes this again - but not by as a significant margin as many might argue. Uno has all of the capacity and should hold this significantly but I find he doesn’t use his considerable advantages over Chen/Jin to their fullest capacity (his posture, his definition of movement, his finesse etc). Working with a different choreographer might help here. Shoma excels on the musical timing - he can time his landings and flow out of a jump to match the musical structure very well. In a Jin vs Chen comparison - it’s the individual performance we’d have to look at on the day. All of them could work on timing their spins to the music better, especially Chen. The question of timing is often about pacing so, again, it’s hard to generalize instead of looking at individual performances on the day of. Chen tends to be somewhat inconsistent on landings his jumps to the timing specifically though. In terms of characterizing a musical style - I would actually say both Jin and Chen are better here (perhaps Jin the most). Uno never really varies his carriage to characterize different pieces of music. His motions are always quite precise and definite - but sometimes you need to unfurl your body, relax a wrist, let a limb slink etc. Jin really does quite well with giddy pieces and really can be playful with his face, limbs, fingers, and gestures (maybe too playful, but it can be infectious). He needs to work on introspective or lyrical music since his bodily carriage almost resorts to a “neutral” or “bland” stance rather than something beautiful or soulful or thoughtful. But, for me (and I understand if others differ) I prefer even the half-hearted variation of Jin to Uno. Chen handles dynamic music with significant power quite well and is really able to commit his body fully to it with almost a wild inhibition. But more delicate or dramatic pieces or sections, he needs improvements. He hasn’t yet been able to deliver nuance or reflect subtly with his gestures or blades - compared to Uno where this type of finesse is a relative strength, even if he doesn’t use it to extent he needs to. In my view, none of them are able to deliver a completely successful interpretation of music because of the inability to deliver variation to reflect musical arcs (and hence emotional or intellectual arcs). None of them have ever done anything to heighten, complicate, or change our emotional or intellectual understanding of a piece - which I consider the highest bar for interpretation.

Their best programs have been Chen’s Nemesis, Uno’s Piazzola, Jin’s Planets/Star Wars. All of them have seemed most comfortable with those performances and have shown the most commitment to the delivery. And Boyang Jin has improved most since a junior I think. He’s learned to give more commitment. He defines his movements better - both with his blade and his limbs - far more than he previously did and his skating skills have improved a bit. Uno has shown the least improvement imo. In fact, given where he was as a junior, I would’ve hoped for more progress.

 

[yyyskate]

I completely disagree Chen and Jin are about the same on PCS. Even if Nathan does little transitions in his programs, he still clearly carries with him years of dance training throughout and is still head and shoulders above Jin in terms of lines and extension, quality and understanding of movement, fluidity, body awareness, AND musicality.

Also, Nathan does have better blade work than Boyang, actually a lot better. just looked their stsq.
Another thing is that Boyang tends to slow down before his quads, Nathan's preparation for quads is less obvious.
just my 2 cents.

 

[chopinskate]

post

Wonderful, wonderful analysis. I find myself agreeing with so much, and practically all of the Interpretation section. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Who would you say has better set-up time and transitions for jumps, in terms of return (height, quality)? I find myself gravitating towards larger jumps with huge pop even if it means fewer transitions, but would love to hear your thoughts.

And in terms of their Step Sequences, whose steps showcase their talents the best, and who has the best execution?

 

[icybear]

Also, Nathan does have better blade work than Boyang, actually a lot better. just looked their stsq.
Another thing is that Boyang tends to slow down before his quads, Nathan's preparation for quads is less obvious.
just my 2 cents.

Chen has more 2 foot skating than Boyang.

 

[schizoanalyst]

Wonderful, wonderful analysis. I find myself agreeing with so much, and practically all of the Interpretation section. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Who would you say has better set-up time and transitions for jumps, in terms of return (height, quality)? I find myself gravitating towards larger jumps with huge pop even if it means fewer transitions, but would love to hear your thoughts.

And in terms of their Step Sequences, whose steps showcase their talents the best, and who has the best execution?

Partially depends on the jump I’d say! In terms of overall set-up and quality, I think you have to give it to Uno’s 3A. Setting aside the axel though, I’d say Jin’s 4Lz is most appealing. I don’t mind a somewhat telegraphed set-up if we get an explosive jump. Especially if the music is designed to build up anticipation - the telegraph set-up really adds to it - and then the jump releases that tension, it can be quite exciting (Jin’s opening 4Lz in the FS does this for me). Obviously preferences differ, but unless the transition is something truly fantastic and dramatic (like a hydroblade pulling into a 4Lo or something) I wouldn’t sacrifice the quality of the jump significantly. I’d much rather see a 4F with great pop and height then a just OK one that came from a 3-turn.

Again, so much depends on the day. But at their best, I think Chen can deliver the best step sequence (but like I said a bit above, he’s a bit more variable on this than the others). He can use his edges, he can do rather precise, assured turns with a good amount of speed and snap. Bourne is good at crafting step sequences that show off his talents. Uno is good, but the turns can be a bit weak and edges shallow sometimes in the sequence. Jin can carry decent speed, but some of the turns just don't have the same precision as a Chen. Some of those positions I’m not sure are the best choices for him though. Of course, there is more to a step sequence than turns and edges - it's also about musicality and timing and bodily commitment. Those are really more program dependent and very day-dependent.

 

[chopinskate]

post

Agreed and agreed. I am not sure Jin's lunging during the StSq is quite ideal for him. In terms of crafting, I'd say Chen's SP step sequence and Jin's SP step sequence would come down to preference.

 

[shine]

Chen has more 2 foot skating than Boyang.

Does Boyang have so much more one foot skating that it makes an impact on the program as a whole compared to Nathan's one foot skating? Or does it require an ardent fan to sit down and count the total seconds on one foot so he can announce to the world such a difference? Let's not make say, a 65, sound like it's so much more impressive than say, a 60.
Also, the post you are addressing was referring to step sequences, which are usually done on one foot anyway, so your point is moot. In addition, one foot vs two foot skating only constitutes one aspect of skating skills.

 

[oatmella]

Personally I would rate Shoma and Nathan closer in PCS than Nathan and Boyang. I think Nathan has the best musicality (and versatility) of the three, but he doesn't always show this quality to the fullest - whether its changes in layout, fatigue, etc.
SS I would say Shoma is the best of the three. Signature deep knee bend which is very pleasing.
Jump quality I prefer Nathan - best quads overall. Shoma has best 3A.
Projecting to the audience most outwardly - I would say Boyang. I also like Shoma's intensity overall.
I enjoy Nathan's step sequences the most. I think he has the best dance quality of the three (whether balletic or otherwise).

 

[echeveria]

Personally I would rate Shoma and Nathan closer in PCS than Nathan and Boyang. I think Nathan has the best musicality (and versatility) of the three, but he doesn't always show this quality to the fullest - whether its changes in layout, fatigue, etc.
SS I would say Shoma is the best of the three. Signature deep knee bend which is very pleasing.
Jump quality I prefer Nathan - best quads overall. Shoma has best 3A.
Projecting to the audience most outwardly - I would say Boyang. I also like Shoma's intensity overall.
I enjoy Nathan's step sequences the most. I think he has the best dance quality of the three (whether balletic or otherwise).

welp, back on the topic of... this thread, i agree with you on almost all of these points. i really enjoy nathan's step sequences and boyang definitely seems to make a connection with the audience every time he sets foot on the ice. he's really very charismatic and likable, which does help. i think the three of them are really well-rounded, i don't think they will have any trouble carrying future of figure skating. each of them has something unique and brings something new to the table, i'm really looking forward to next season.

 

[karne]

I vote for a change in thread title. This isn't a review of men's skating over the last quad at all, it's a discussion about three men in particular.

And I'm in the camp that Boyang and Nathan are very similar in terms of PCS. It's just that Nathan benefited from an unprecedented USFS propaganda campaign about how incredibly artistic he is, and Boyang didn't have that.

And also I've never been a fan of "sQuad" only relating to these three. There are a lot of very talented men out there landing quads. Not sure why a special moniker that implies these three are the only ones is given to them.

 

[nekun]

I love all the three, the original squad, I will so sad if those three never step in the same podium like the Dream podium patrick-javi-yuzu which never happened
I can feel in my bone that Pina kolyada is the 'Denis Ten' of the sQuad era