2015 Europeans Men's Free Skate, Jan. 30

[silverfoxes]

And come on, there were those who wanted Kovtun's FS to not be enough to surpass Voronov, leaving him 3rd, and who also wanted Bychenko scored much higher so as to push Kovtun off the podium. Haters have been wanting to see Kovtun lose for ages now... The same ones who keep bringing up his 17th place finish at Worlds as essentially a junior.

I'm not a Kovtun "hater," but do you really think that all these overly defensive posts are ever going to make someone reconsider how they feel about him? Or is it just arguing for the sake of arguing?

 

[TontoK]

I really don't get the whole Kovtun hatred.

And I'm certainly not getting the Javi love, either.

Everything I've read and the few videos I've watched aren't enough to rev up any emotions at all.

Blah. There wasn't one well skated or memorable SP or LP in the whole competition.

I suppose someone had to stand on the podium after this snooze fest; but it's hardly worth bothering to debate who that should be.

The officials could have just drawn names from a hat.

4CC better be better than this.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I'm not a Kovtun "hater," but do you really think that all these overly defensive posts are ever going to make someone reconsider how they feel about him? Or is it just arguing for the sake of arguing?

Not asking anyone to change their opinion - as the saying goes, haters gonna hate... But I'm still allowed to comment and express my disdain for people who hate on a skater and seemingly want to see them fail.

Even other posters have expressed confusion as to why Kovtun gets so much hate.

 

[Sandpiper]

And come on, there were those who wanted Kovtun's FS to not be enough to surpass Voronov, leaving him 3rd, and who also wanted Bychenko scored much higher so as to push Kovtun off the podium. Haters have been wanting to see Kovtun lose for ages now... The same ones who keep bringing up his 17th place finish at Worlds as essentially a junior.

Okay, I'm one of those evil people. As in, I think Sergei was better than Kovtun overall. Kovtun's GOE in both segments was dumb (should've gotten straight -3 for some of those mistakes... though Javi's GOE was even dumber, to be fair). Sergei's SP was more than three points better than Kovtun's, imo. Not sure about Bychenko podium-ing though. :scratch:

But does this on its own make me a "hater"? I like to think--though I guess you disagree --that we just have different values (and the ISU's values aligned more with yours, hence the result). Sergei made two disruptive errors in the free: the second axel and the popped salchow. But the rest of his skate looked okay to me (not great, just okay). Whereas with Kovtun, I counted two somewhat decent jumping passes. Everything else step-out/hand-down/wonky landing. His LP had a greater overall feeling of sloppiness. Combined with the SP, I don't think it's unreasonable to prefer Sergei overall. I know I'm a little stuck in 6.0, but surely that isn't enough to be a "hater"...?

 

[Mrs. P]

Kovtun does deserve credit for some jump layout changes in the second half on the fly after making all those errors. He actually made up about 4.51 points in base value (and some minimal +GOE as well) by basically adding the -3T on his 3Z (which he missed on the 3A; the previous layout was a 3Z-2T); and a -2T on his 3A (due to the same error).

 

[Interspectator]

Kovtun does deserve credit for some jump layout changes in the second half on the fly after making all those errors. He actually made up about 4.51 points in base value (and some minimal +GOE as well) by basically adding the -3T on his 3Z (which he missed on the 3A; the previous layout was a 3Z-2T); and a -2T on his 3A (due to the same error).

Yes, I noticed that at Worlds 2014, he totally changed his jump layout there when he popped his first quad. A lot of other skaters would have zayaked or just left the jumps out all together.

 

[Sandpiper]

Kovtun does deserve credit for some jump layout changes in the second half on the fly after making all those errors. He actually made up about 4.51 points in base value (and some minimal +GOE as well) by basically adding the -3T on his 3Z (which he missed on the 3A; the previous layout was a 3Z-2T); and a -2T on his 3A (due to the same error).

But I honestly don't think he should've gotten +GOE on anything except +1 for 3S-2T and 2A. :hopelessness: I think 0 GOE was right for the rest.

Anyway, maybe I'm overstating my case. I can see why Kovtun got the silver, even though I don't agree and think he would've been third under 6.0. That's pretty much it. I'm probably crazy, still analyzing this horrible competition for which I thought no one deserved any medals.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Agreed Mrs. P.

Sandpiper I don't think you're a hater - just those who hope Kovtun is off the podium when he doesn't even deserve worse than silver given what the other guys did. I agree Kovtun had shaky passes overall (as reflected by all the 0 GOEs) but Kovtun also did what CoP asks: rotate the jumps, save for the 4S<. Voronov tripling his second quad, and singling his salchow, and doubling the 3A in the SP all killed his BV (by about 15 points!) and, coupled with his other errors, ultimately lost him the FS and the silver.

 

[Mrs. P]

But I honestly don't think he should've gotten +GOE on anything except +1 for 3S-2T and 2A. :hopelessness: I think 0 GOE was right for the rest.

Anyway, maybe I'm overstating my case. I can see why Kovtun got the silver, even though I don't agree and think he would've been third under 6.0. That's pretty much it. I'm probably crazy, still analyzing this horrible competition for which I thought no one deserved any medals.

Can't really comment on placements, since I haven't watched the skates and quite frankly, I don't think I will, LOL. I based my comments looking at Kovtun's protocals from Euros compared to TEB.

 

[Sandpiper]

I know exactly why Kovtun got silver... I guess I'm just a COP-hater. And Judge-hater, in this particular event. The judges were really generous to mistakes and -GOE, which boosted Kovtun (who rotated everything messily) and did no favours to Voronov (who landed his stuff alright... but failed to rotate a crucial salchow). Not saying they were necessarily holding Kovtun up, since Javi got the same treatment... but I wish the judges would stop this.

 

[Rissa]

This is the first time Maxim didn't remind me of a tank. Bodes well for the future!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I know exactly why Kovtun got silver... I guess I'm just a COP-hater. And Judge-hater, in this particular event. The judges were really generous to mistakes and -GOE, which boosted Kovtun (who rotated everything messily) and did no favours to Voronov (who landed his stuff alright... but failed to rotate a crucial salchow). Not saying they were necessarily holding Kovtun up, since Javi got the same treatment... but I wish the judges would stop this.

I thought Kovtun's judging was fine - lots of 0 GOE... They even gave him a lot of 0's on his lacklustre ChSq (well performed but easy content). The 3-3 did deserve +GOE. And of course try kept his PCS under 80. I agree his performance was a bit meh but it wasn't a hot mess. No falls/pops, both axels landed (even if not perfectly), minor 4T error, 3-3 in the second half. The lutzes were not perfect but still clean. Still odd to see a skater with no 3F or 3L attempt.

Javier on the other hand had a fall, one tripled quad, and two doubled triples... Scoring him 173.

 

[Sandpiper]

I thought Kovtun's judging was fine - lots of 0 GOE... They even gave him a lot of 0's on his lacklustre ChSq (well performed but easy content). The 3-3 did deserve +GOE. And of course try kept his PCS under 80. I agree his performance was a bit meh but it wasn't a hot mess. No falls, both axels landed, minor 4T error, 3-3 in the second half. The lutzes were not perfect but still clean. Still odd to see a skater with no 3F or 3L attempt.

I think he should've gotten more -GOE for the quads, in both programs. I'd say straight -3 for the two quads in the SP, -3 for the 4S in the LP and -2 for the 4T (maybe -1 to be generous). No 0s or even +1s (those judges were nuts). Then again, what to expect when Javi gets -2 for a fall... I hope those judges were reprimanded afterwards.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I hope those judges were reprimanded afterwards.

How would they? Nobody knows who gave those GOE gifts.

 

[Sandpiper]

How would they? Nobody knows who gave those GOE gifts.

The ISU should know who gave what GOE, right? Like how they give reprimands if your PCS scoring gets too weird.

I'm trying to believe the system isn't so stupid, though it's been difficult...

(Eurosport saying right now, "Girls have delivered. A little disappointed with the guys." No really? )

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Looked at Voronov's skate again. Lots of shaky landings himself. He has some nice performance bits but it doesn't carry through - he doesn't interpret the music throughout the program, and isn't expressive save for parts of footwork. The costume doesn't fit the theme either. I think he's capable of so much more.

Watching Kovtun and Voronov again makes me really miss Menshov - at least he took more effort to convey a theme and interpret.

 

[silverfoxes]

Well, Voronov is now the #2 ranked man in the world, so whatever he's doing is working just fine. Funny, isn't it? If anyone skates like a 6.0-era skater, it's him, but it allows him to be far more stable and consistent (most of the time).

Of course there is room for improvement, but that's true for all of them.

Does the costume fit the theme - well, what is the theme? I think the costume is extremely flattering, shall we say. I like it.

But I miss Menshov, too.

 

[Sandpiper]

Looked at Voronov's skate again. Lots of shaky landings himself. He has some nice performance bits but it doesn't carry through - he doesn't interpret the music throughout the program, and isn't expressive save for parts of footwork. The costume doesn't fit the theme either. I think he's capable of so much more.

Watching Kovtun and Voronov again makes me really miss Menshov - at least he took more effort to convey a theme and interpret.

Voronov was subpar and not as expressive as he was at GPF/Nationals, I agree. But that men's free had gotten to the point where I had a cringe-o-metre, and Voronov just happened to make me cringe a bit less than Kovtun. Though Michal was the absolute worst in terms of "Oh why oh why did you do that?"

Looking back... yeah, Menshov really did have a solid theme running through his programs. Even though I didn't like the shrill music at first, I really appreciate what he tried to do.

 

[Meoima]

I thought there was something in the air that make everyone falter but top ladies did well. I wonder why the men was so blah... Sigh...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well, Voronov is now the #2 ranked man in the world, so whatever he's doing is working just fine. Funny, isn't it? If anyone skates like a 6.0-era skater, it's him, but it allows him to be far more stable and consistent (most of the time).

Of course there is room for improvement, but that's true for all of them.

Does the costume fit the theme - well, what is the theme? I think the costume is extremely flattering, shall we say. I like it.

But I miss Menshov, too.

LOL, World Rankings mean very little. Denis Ten is ranked #4, and I doubt people would say whatever he's doing now is working fine. Same with Lipnitskaia, who is ranked #2 in the world.