2017 Canadian Nats - Junior Women's SP

[TGee]

TGee many of the top junior ladies have done an international event. They should be building resilience in addition to properly landing all their triples and 3-3 combinations. I'm sure the BC girls will up their tech next season and go for 3T in their jump combos. Sarah did that towards the end of last year. And Olivia right now does a 2A+3T, as does Aurora.

It's the amount of strength on strength competition over the season. One international is a big deal for North Americans, but internationals are part of the circuit for the up and coming Russians.

Detroit, Minto and Thornhill summer skates, and a single international just don't seem to be meeting the amount of competition that the Long Term Athlete Development Model guidance recommends at this point in their development.

 

[Mango]

It's the amount of strength on strength competition over the season. One international is a big deal for North Americans, but internationals are part of the circuit for the up and coming Russians.

Detroit, Minto and Thornhill summer skates, and a single international just don't seem to be meeting the amount of competition that the Long Term Athlete Development Model guidance recommends at this point in their development.

Honestly with this crop of ladies I'm not sure how much international exposure is helping. Gran, Cotop, Colthorp, Pineault, and Bausback have two international experiences. In BC/YK section they have the Super Series which is quite competitive. These ladies have seen each other at least twice this season, if not more. I think it's got to be, in part, a personal choice in your development. Do you want to skate clean? Or do you want to push for the 3-3 jumps? Some take longer to decide that (like Tamura) some decide to just go for it (like Bausback). Also, I'm not sure if they have all their triples. Gran, Colthorp, and Bausback do. But Cotop does not seem to have a 3Lz yet. Maybe she'll surprise us tomorrow.

 

[AlexRus]

It's the amount of strength on strength competition over the season. One international is a big deal for North Americans, but internationals are part of the circuit for the up and coming Russians.

Radionova won her debut internationals (Golden Spin of Zagreb 2012 Novice) before she won her debut JGP Event.
But Pogorilaya had her first "B" event after she competed twice at Worlds and after she won at various competitions (JGP, GP, Worlds) Chartrand, Daleman, Lacoste, Osmond.
Medvedeva had her first "B" event (Ice Star Minsk 2013 Junor) after she won two JGP Events where she won Chartrand and Daleman.

Maybe, internationals are not so critical? Ciritical is quality of skating?
Compare this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnHFc5jajpU (Aleksandra Trusova, girl 11 and half years old at that time, one of leaders, but not first in her age group in Russia) and yesterday's SP of Aurora Cotop, see the difference.
Aurora Cotop is a talented girl, but I see in her skating issues on which she should work hard (so hard as, I'm sure, works Stephen Gogolev) to get really high level.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Radionova won her debut internationals (Golden Spin of Zagreb 2012 Novice) before she won her debut JGP Event.
But Pogorilaya had her first "B" event after she competed twice at Worlds and after she won at various competitions (JGP, GP, Worlds) Chartrand, Daleman, Lacoste, Osmond.
Medvedeva had her first "B" event (Ice Star Minsk 2013 Junor) after she won two JGP Events where she won Chartrand and Daleman.

Maybe, internationals are not so critical? Ciritical is quality of skating?
Compare this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnHFc5jajpU (Aleksandra Trusova, girl 11 and half years old at that time, one of leaders, but not first in her age group in Russia) and yesterday's SP of Aurora Cotop, see the difference.
Aurora Cotop is a talented girl, but I see in her skating issues on which she should work hard (so hard as, I'm sure, works Stephen Gogolev) to get really high level.

And Anna developed a well known reputation for inconsistency at senior events, which carried forward into B competitions this season, where she lead both Mao and Kaetlyn at the Finlandia, after the short but finished in 3rd place. Simply because one did well as a junior, does not guarantee success as a senior.

 

[lyndichee]

And Polina developed a well known reputation for inconsistency at senior events, which carried forward into B [ompetitions this season, where she lead both Mao and Kaetlyn at the Finlandia, after the short but finished in 3rd place. Simply because one did well as a junior, does not guarantee success as a senior.

Not Polina but Anna. Anna has been consistent at competitions that count and I still think she will challenge for the World Podium again. I don't get how to point of have junior success doesn't guarantee senior success since Anna is currently doing well as a senior.

AlexRus, are you here just to put down Canadian ladies? Each skater is different, some need the senior Bs (Liza T) and some don't go to them at all (Ashley Wagner). Keep in mind that Canada doesn't have state sponsored programs that provide the same level of funding, so figure skating is not a sport that is as relatively available to most families, therefore we don't have a concentration of ladies like Russia.

 

[AlexRus]

AlexRus, are you here just to put down Canadian ladies?

Of coure no.
I only want to say that to work hard at practice is more important than to have many "B" internationals.

Liza T yes, had many "B" competitions at season 2014-2015 (and two domestic local competitions too), and won Worlds. But "after this - because this" is wrong logic. When Liza won Nationals (*) she did not have many competitions (only one local competition, all other - GP and championships). Liza's problem is that her level becomes lower for long time (and after that may become higher).

I don't get how to point of have junior success doesn't guarantee senior success

Junior success does not guarantee Senior success. But most of Senior leaders were succesful as Juniors.

(*) In Russia to win Nationals means great success. There are leaders who never won Nationals - Leonova who several seasons was leader of Team Russia, Lipnitskaia.

 

[AlexRus]

And Anna developed a well known reputation for inconsistency at senior events

Not only Anna. Gracie, Kaetlyn and many others too.

 

[ancientpeas]

I must power up The Scariest Laptop in the World (trademark pending) so that I can watch on the big tv and post. I think only the mens and pairs are live. I think ID and Women are on some kind of tape delay.

I know that some GSers are at the event. If they look in the audience I'm going to guess which ones are you guys. I'm going to guess that whomever throws the most outrageous stuffie at Patrick Chan is 4everchan and if anyone throws a blueberry I'll know where that one comes from too.

Lovely day in Ottawa btw. Unfortunately we are back to that nasty freezing rain we have been having so much of tonight so I want to wish everyone at the event a safe trip back to their homes or hotels. We are about 8 degrees above our normal daytime highs for this time of year. But the canal was closed last night after being open for about a week.

 

[lyndichee]

Of coure no.
I only want to say that to work hard at practice is more important than to have many "B" internationals.

Liza T yes, had many "B" competitions at season 2014-2015 (and two domestic local competitions too), and won Worlds. But "after this - because this" is wrong logic. When Liza won Nationals (*) she did not have many competitions (only one local competition, all other - GP and championships). Liza's problem is that her level becomes lower for long time (and after that may become higher).

Of course not but while you acknowledge talent, you also put them down by comparing.

I think you are actually confirming my point. My general point is that different things work for different skaters. Senior Bs worked for Liza in 2015-2016 year while Ashley has never been to one and yet has achieved longevity as an older skater that is rare.

Different strokes for different people, just because some Russian ladies never did a lot of senior Bs, doesn't mean not doing senior Bs is not helpful. Canadian ladies don't have as much competition experience in general; they have much less domestic competitions and they don't have JGPF experience. They don't do separate junior and senior nationals like some of the Russian ladies either so I think TGee was also right that competitions help.

Junior success does not guarantee Senior success. But most of Senior leaders were succesful as Juniors.

That was not directed towards your points.