2017 GP Skate Canada Pairs SP

[Art&Sport]

...

As much as I love the commitment of J/C, their fierceness, their connection with the public, they still have to refine a lot of their skating to be at the level of the first 4-5 teams...

This being said, I also wish them to fix on little thing at a time... so we can enjoy them improving over the year...

I think they will have their shot very soon...

You make a good case for Meagan and Eric. And I have been a champion of D/R previously when they were always being torn down by haters. However, I am not seeing huge growth from them. Yes, this is a nice program for D/R, and they went to John Zimmerman and John Kerr for a reason. J/C's breakthrough with Zimmerman and Kerr is the reason, let's be honest. D/R were looking for some fresh spark. They had some problems last season with ideas, program layout and performance execution. Then Eric's injury hampered them too.

The 'refinement' argument is so overdone, I'm tired of hearing it. The same was always always said regarding Surya Bonaly. Similar is being said about Gabby Daleman. It's really because when skaters like J/C do improve, we must find more that they need to improve at. J/C have been a good team technically for awhile, especially since they made their 3-twist more consistent. They went to Russia to train in order to work on refinements. Now, it's just a matter that TPTB need to find excuses not to reward them for how good they are, since their magical breakthrough with Zimmerman/Kerr/Barrett/Fontana. This wasn't J/C's best skate, but it was pretty d**n good. Their best always has to be better. Vanessa knows that, and that's why she's cool and gracious in the kiss 'n cry. Morgan is usually fit to be tied. He was quietly questioning the score, and he's not wrong to wonder.

 

[QuadThrow]

The costume thing is a horrible aesthetic choice, it's not a nitpick as far as packaging goes. This is a very real concern about how an Olympic audience will perceive them.

Obviously they don't REALLY deserve to lose a ton of PCS because of a piece of fabric on the costume, but I do feel it plays into a negative perception of them by the judges and is an actual distraction of sorts from the performance. It's just a bad line, and you want good lines.

The bigger problem is their program. It's boring and does not suit them. They did not skate the best best here, Savchenko/Massot displayed better choreography and musicality. There was a mistake on S/M's throw, yes, but it's a 3Axel. No other pair is doing this element.

I'm rooting for James/Cipres, but they need new music and need to rip the distracting fabric off Morgan's enormously attractive chest.

There are big difference here what to think about J/C's marks and program. But I agree. This blue band really shocked me during the warm up. Such a bad idea. James is the hottest guy in town. He does need a custume which does not deflect attention away from him.

 

[[email protected]]

I enjoyed this event better than in Moscow. Many good programs. And adequate judging with one obvious exception.

 

[Tolstoj]

Poor Zabijako/Enbert to finish here in Skate Canada.

This could have been their season, and they are so elegant but you won't see any rewards on the components from them here... while 36 for D/R... just sayin'.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I enjoyed this event better than in Moscow. Many good programs. And adequate judging with one obvious exception.

Poor Zabijako/Enbert to finish here in Skate Canada.

This could have been their season, and they are so elegant but you won't see any rewards on the components from them here... while 36 for D/R... just sayin'.

I'd say don't speak too loud.

But I do think the competition was alright - much of the same as it was in Russia, regarding placements. Though, I would have J/C very much in second. I was checking their protocols and they seemed quite underrated in the TES.

 

[MaiKatze]

Pairs live at TV station One in 5 minutes. If you use a VPN, maybe you can watch it, outside of Germany?

 

[Tolstoj]

I'd say don't speak too loud.

But I do think the competition was alright - much of the same as it was in Russia, regarding placements. Though, I would have J/C very much in second. I was checking their protocols and they seemed quite underrated in the TES.

Few things.

a messy 2ltz with a not clean landing and no unison is worse than a flawless 3T.

throw 3ltz yes but if you look at the execution it was done with no speed in and out, as Ms Lane would said "no flow on that element, it should be reflected on the grade of execution". (and it wasn't) So again it's somewhat worse than a flawless throw 3lo.

But at the end of the day it's not the TES that saved them but the components and here i'm curious to know how you could explain that 5 points difference between them and Z/E, because it wasn't there on the ice for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3sgh-pI_NA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QluvjuXvY9k

In my humble opinion, D/R should have been fourth here.

 

[[email protected]]

Few things.

a messy 2ltz with a not clean landing and no unison is worse than a flawless 3T.

throw 3ltz yes but if you look at the execution it was done with no speed in and out, as Ms Lane would said "no flow on that element, it should be reflected on the grade of execution". (and it wasn't) So again it's somewhat worse than a flawless throw 3lo.

But at the end of the day it's not the TES that saved them but the components and here i'm curious to know how you could explain that 5 points difference between them and Z/E, because it wasn't there on the ice for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3sgh-pI_NA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QluvjuXvY9k

In my humble opinion, D/R should have been fourth here.

I agree with you. Z/E were better overall with much more of what TAT names as pair skating but... and then you can take out things like they are double WC or phrases like one commentator said last week. J/C should be second with a big margin. Pair judging with respect to Canadians is the only sore spot for me so far.,

 

[skatemouse]

Really? Seriously? What else do you have to nitpick about to try and justify J/C not scoring higher? J/C clearly skated better overall than everyone else in the sp.

Both S/M and D/R were not at their best. I also would have had Denney/Frazier 2 to 3 points higher. And Luba/Dylan deserved better components and a higher score. Z/E are looking much better as a team, but they still have a lot to work on. As usual, Z/E are overscored on the basis of their Russian aesthetic. But boy are I/M and Z/E copying J/C's style and moves. Lots of teams seem inspired by J/C's exciting breakthrough last season. And J/C aren't missing a beat here. I think under the circumstances that S/M should not be higher than 74.95 or thereabouts, with J/C around 74.50. There could be an argument for J/C to actually be in first place, but I suppose figure skating establishment just can't have that happen. LOL

I like Meagan and Eric, but they were not exactly on, and they haven't been for awhile. It's as if they peaked at 2016 Worlds. Meagan and Eric should actually be behind J/C.

J/C were really sloppy. Having seen them a few times now she slumps over the whole program but not sure why? It is very un-nerving though. Did anyone else notice that? There are sloppy moments all the way through and sometimes laughing which is strange. I am not sure what is up. Costumes are another issue. They have made such big improvements so hopefully they get this under control and her control over her upper body becomes stronger. She is a taller pair so maybe she feels she has to bend? Steps need to be stronger and twist improved. I feel jumps single should go and spins single should go and more emphasis on pair elements should be in pairs like dance is focused that way but that is another story. Regardless J/C are no where near D/R and S/M in pair elements. Even the Chinese are stronger here but lost tons of levels or they would have been very high in placement. The French are making great steps though!

Your whole second paragraph is off base in my thoughts.

Both S/M and D/R were not at their best true but still levels and pair elements are smooth and very well executed singles elements D/R struggled and S/M a bit too but again pair elements good and S/M's throw is closer than she had been and looks to be much much better re-watch it. . I would have had Denney/Frazier a place lower and if P/J did not loose so many levels they would have been one place down. NO way she should be under rotating the sal again every time but Brandon had a clean sal (usually two footed) the throw she put her foot down re-watch that again. It is no height and goes only out...not good for a throw. I understand it is helping the knee so smart move there. I get it. That said it was a start back for them. The twist too next to the wall? Again good for them though. Luba/Dylan deserved better components and a better score. "Z/E are looking much better as a team, but they still have a lot to work on" VERY true but it is their connection that is lacking not their pair elements. "I/M and Z/E copying J/C's style and moves" Ya no. Not at all. If anything it is the opposite by knowing who did what prior but well played J/C don't blame them. "Lots of teams seem inspired by J/C's exciting breakthrough last season" this may be true also but if J/C don't fine tune things and stop being so sloppy their scores may go down. Judges are fair-weather.

The scores for the top three are right on for the SP given Pairs elements and levels in my view. For some reason judges are crazy with the levels. Noticed in the other prior comps this year. Not sure why all of a sudden it seems but maybe it is good.

 

[gold12345]

Right, because we really can't ever have J/C coming in first in a major, relevant competition. Meanwhile, it's okay to give them consolation firsts at WTT and senior Bs.

When the competitors are this talented and this close in ability, it's very important to nitpick on 'levels,' which allows the judges leeway to put skaters just where they desire them to be based on politics and status quo.

Are you saying levels don't matter? Levels have been important since this judging system has been implemented. A few missed levels and you can lose points in a hurry. The awarding of levels is relatively objective.

 

[viennaskater]

Morgan Ciprès is most handsomest athlete of all time ever! I am dead from beauty.

He is gorgeous!!!

 

[Art&Sport]

Poor Zabijako/Enbert to finish here in Skate Canada.

This could have been their season, and they are so elegant but you won't see any rewards on the components from them here... while 36 for D/R... just sayin'.

Z/E don't deserve high scores on components simply because they display 'Russian aesthetic light.' Despite good looks, long lines and a bit of lanky awkward grace, with some signs of improvement, Z/E are still rather bland and trying too hard. They look good and have good technique which they are still trying to tweak for consistency, but there's no depth, no connection, and no on-ice personality. There's nothing substantial or interesting behind their rehearsed moves as they wing their way through their programs.

OTOH, Ashtakova/Rogonov are always interesting to watch, even when they aren't skating well. I'm glad to see A. Dmitriev has been working with them. A/R have some worthy programs this season. They also have sass, personality and depth, unlike Z/E.

 

[Art&Sport]

I also find your comments in post #369 about Vanessa to be very 'off-base' @skatemouse, so we can just leave it at that.

Vanessa and Morgan do not need your opprobrium, nor will they be held back by attitudes such as yours. Vanessa has probably faced worse than your insults during her career in the skating world, and simply allowed it to roll off her back as she keeps on keeping on. :handw: There are plenty of people in the sport and in the universe who do not carry your perceptions and attitudes, and who respect Vanessa's talent, hard work and graciousness. John Zimmerman and crew are among them.