2019 U.S. Nationals Senior Men FS

[RemyRose]

Watching the men now, and following this thread as I go.

I'll be "in the present" as soon as I catch up!

Cool avatar! :luv17:

 

[CellarDweller]

I feel like I could make a really brutal drinking game out of Tara and Johnny's comments at this point. Sip every "obviously", finish the glass every time Johnny uses an abstract metaphor....

Every time I hear Johnny talk about a skater's program holding them in "good stead", I want to say "No, you're not Dick Button."

 

[moonvine]

Not as bad as the foot ad from the Grand Prix event. LOL

That foot ad was the worst thing ever. Should be banned.

 

[CellarDweller]

Tara & Johnny just said crowd pleasing music that gets the crowd behind you can sometimes help you as a skater. Tara said it worked for her. It seems to work here. Gypsy magic maybe some sage involved too.

Ruffledgrouse, I'm your sage tea gal.

*sings* Dark Lady laughed and danced and light the candles one by one!

 

[CellarDweller]

Ok, Nathan was amazing! No other words for it!

Not sure how I feel with Vincent vs. Jason for silver. I wanted Jason for silver, but with his pops, I had to give it to Vincent, even though I enjoyed Jason's program more.

Had Jason not popped that one triple, and even attempted the quad and fallen, his score would've been higher, and perhaps silver would've been his.

Tomoki is definitely one to watch in the future.

 

[Skater Boy]

Okay, I'm actually willing to accept Nathan's new shirt.

That's so big of you. I am sure Nathan will be able to sleep now (sarcasm) LOL. Sometimes I feel a bit of a disconnect with Nathan and his costumes like someone else is dressing him and that it is an influential world designer often ie Vera Wang and somehow if it is designed by VERra Want - at least the label then somehow it has to be good and appropriate which isn't true. Sometimes Nathan's costumes seem to be a Ode to how many ways can you use black or black and white.

 

[Skater Boy]

It is a crime Vincent ended up ahead of Jason. Like I literally want to call the police.

Well Jason made two big errors on salchows and rightfully lost points. Plus his skate wasn't as "easy" as some described he was fighting and that is Jason's strength - smooth Chan like skating. He is going to world's and tat's all that matters. I mean he needed at least a quad or to skate cleanly and he did neither. he is lucky because in some judging scenarios without an attempt at a quad his pcs could have taken a hit.

 

[lizardlass]

Nathan really blew me away with that LP. It was just swish, swish, swish, SO satisfying to watch. The best LP he has ever skated, IIRC. Jason and Vincent were great to watch, too, despite the mistakes. Jason's fluidity and interpretation and sheer beauty all make him so special. And I've got a real soft spot for Vincent. After attending Skate America, and watching him practice and mess up this one jump in the same corner over and over again, and then land it in the SP and look so happy and near tears at the end...he's just so endearing. A cinnamon roll who must be protected at all costs, etc.

 

[moonvine]

Well Jason made two big errors on salchows and rightfully lost points. Plus his skate wasn't as "easy" as some described he was fighting and that is Jason's strength - smooth Chan like skating. He is going to world's and tat's all that matters. I mean he needed at least a quad or to skate cleanly and he did neither. he is lucky because in some judging scenarios without an attempt at a quad his pcs could have taken a hit.

My main issue is that I don't think there's any way he and Vincent should have been so close after the short. I realize he made mistakes, but Vincent also did not skate cleanly. I still don't see how Jason could have messed up a spin. Was that a mental error or?

 

[BrentWolgamott]

My main issue is that I don't think there's any way he and Vincent should have been so close after the short. I realize he made mistakes, but Vincent also did not skate cleanly. I still don't see how Jason could have messed up a spin. Was that a mental error or?

Look, we all love Jason, but Vincent did TWO quads in the SP and Jason did NONE. I realize one was called under, but that point difference, even with an under, is a BIG DEAL. Jason's PCS was way above Vincent's, but it's not like Vincent is a schlub. Vincent is a hard worker and (I believe) really does feel the music, and although his skating skills and line are not the best, I believe his 8's in PCS are deserved.

It's about the TES difference -- it IS an athletic sport, after all.

 

[Metis]

Look, we all love Jason, but Vincent did TWO quads in the SP and Jason did NONE. I realize one was called under, but that point difference, even with an under, is a BIG DEAL. Jason's PCS was way above Vincent's, but it's not like Vincent is a schlub. Vincent is a hard worker and (I believe) really does feel the music, and although his skating skills and line are not the best, I believe his 8's in PCS are deserved.

It's about the TES difference -- it IS an athletic sport, after all.

Vincent didn’t do any quads. He did over-rotated triples and the marshmallow TP only called a handful of his URs and downgrades.

 

[SnowWhite]

So world team: Nathan, Vincent, Jason
4CC: Vincent, Jason, Tomoki (????)
JW: Tomoki...

Ok that one is hard.

I think it could be Alexsei and Andrew. But it also could include Camden despite his melt down. I really don't know.

But some alternates include Ryan and Dinh.

I think Alexei and Tomoki should be locks for JW, and then they can decide between Andrew and Camden for that last spot.

 

[BrentWolgamott]

Vincent didn’t do any quads. He did over-rotated triples and the marshmallows TP only called a handful of his URs and downgrades.

And Jason did a double Salchow, and then a single Salchow for 2 of his 7 allowed jumping passes.

Vincent had 6 quads planned over 2 programs, and 4 of the 6 were called under/downgraded. That isn't a "handful". That's a majority. This tech panel was not in la-la land, respectfully. The only one that I have an issue with is the opening combo should have gotten an under, but even that happening still gives Vincent the silver.

I don't mean to get huffy, but I reject the idea that this tech panel was lenient to Vincent. Hell, I'd argue they were lenient to *Jason* -- that second Axel looked hella under to me. And Johnny.

 

[Mrs. P]

Jason actually scored pretty close to what he did at Golden Spin. And oddly with the same weird landing in the second 3A that some would argue was UR (but was not called as such).

GS: 167.92 (78.52/89.40)
US NATS: 172.56 (80.36/92.20)

GS: 2A, 3A-2T, 3S, 2Lo, 3A-2T-2Lo,3F-3T, 3Z / level 4 spins (+GOE of 1.34, 1.19, 1.54), level 3 step (1.39 GOE), chsq 1(2.20 got)
Here: 2S, 3A-3T, 1S, 3Lo, 3A, 3F-3T, 3Z-2T-2Lo/ level 4 spins ( +GOE of 1.51,1.55) level 4 step (1.78 GOE), chsq1 (2.50 got)

You can argue that GS is also inflated, but well, i'm just giving numbers.

But I'm kind of tired of Jason vs. Vincent ,which seems to happen every year at nationals. It's almost a tradition. So I won't partake here cause I feel like it's kind of pointless cause basically it's the same old arguments. Might as well just copy and paste all the 2017 posts here.

It will be interesting how they are judged face-to-face in an international competition, I believe they haven't faced off internationally yet.

***

Anyway, Nathan had an amazing skate and deserved the win. Jason and Vincent earned their spots to Worlds. And Tomoki slayed and earned a 4CC spot. It was a pretty good day in the office honestly for me as a fan.

 

[Dreamer57]

Nathan has hinted fairly strongly that he wouldn't welcome an invite to 4CC. I think he'd like to focus on Yale and World's.

I imagine the spot is his if he lets the selection committee know he's changed his mind.

Ok, thanks for the clarification!

 

[Jaana]

It does not matter one bit what scores Chen, Zhou and Brown got at the Nationals or which of them is first, second or third, because USA fortunately has 3 slots for the Worlds and they will all go there....

I just hope that Zhou and his team would finally realize that he needs to concentrate on only two or three different quads and learn to rotate them fully. After that he can start working with more quads. If he is being called for UR´s even at Nationals, one can be sure the same happens at Worlds.

 

[Mrs. P]

^ Yeah, this was the most straightforward men's team decision since 2016 Worlds LOL. (Which was pretty straight forward, only complicated by Nathan's daredevil ways in the gala.)

 

[DSQ]

Vincent didn’t do any quads. He did over-rotated triples and the marshmallow TP only called a handful of his URs and downgrades.

I definitely saw at least one Quad in the short that was fully rotated. (I’ve still got to catch up on the Long) I know Vincent has his problems but when his quads are under it’s not by much.

He has improved so much since the GP series where I would have agreed with you.

 

[AlexRus]

Nathan was superior. So good jumps, improved presentation, nice program.
Of last warm-up I also like Hivatashi. He is unstable, but this time was almost clean.
And nobody else of last warm-up, only these two, as for me.

I don't understand score of Brown. No quads, several mistakes in FS, and his skating is less interesting than in past.

Third warm-up was horrible. So many errors of all five skaters.
Camden Pulkinen - he is strong skater, but so many errors this time. Hope he will skate better in future.

 

[Mrs. P]

Thinking about it some more, I wondered if USFS (and the judges on the whole) had tempered expectations with Jason coming into this . Consider the fact that he got 91 PCS last year with a much worse free skate with far more mistakes.

Jason has referenced USFS not being “impressed” with him at champs camp. And yes while Vincent URs, he still lands his quads, while Jason has yet to land any.

Jason talked a lot about fighting this week, even in the SP, and I wonder if part of it is knowing that even if he’s on a 4-year plan, that not all at usfs buys into it (not to mention the fact of last year’s result bearing on his mind). There is likely a contingent at usfs that probably very much believed that Vincent is young enough to fix his URs, while Jason’s window to gain quads is narrower.

Honestly, he probably did better than expected and what matters is he gets to go to 4CC and worlds. If international judges keep rewarding him for good skates, usfs will likely respond accordingly.