2020 Skate America: Pairs' recap

[gsk8]

It was a golden debut for the newly-formed U.S. team of Alexa Scimeca Knierim and Brandon Frazier in the Pairs’ event at 2020 Guaranteed Rate Skate America on Saturday in Las Vegas, Nev. Jessica Calalang and Brian Johnson and Audrey Lu and Misha Mitrofanov also won their first Grand Prix medals—silver and bronze, respectively.

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Golden debut for Scimeca Knierim and Frazier

It was a golden debut for the newly-formed U.S. team of Alexa Scimeca Knierim and Brandon Frazier in the Pairs’ event at 2020 Guaranteed Rate Skate America on Saturday in […]

www.goldenskate.com

What are your thoughts on the Pairs' event overall? What do you feel, if anything, when you see Scimeca Knierim and Frazier perform together in contrast to that of her former partner?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Thanks GSD. I'm bringing over a comment from the SA pairs sp thread to respond to here:

They [Knierim/Frazier] also look more comfortable doing jumps now than they did with their previous partners who were both nervous jumpers.

I agree with most of your thoughts, but I think it's important to recognize that both Haven and Chris were decent on landing their jumps prior to physical injuries impacting their abilities on sbs jumps (in Haven's case, a devastating knee injury; and in Chris' case, a lesser talked about leg injury).

The reality is that both former pairs teams (the Knierims & Denney/Frazier) were primed circa 2015 to steadily improve, and push each other and the U.S. discipline to greater heights. But then Alexa's strange illness occurred, and Haven's freak off-ice knee injury happened. Later, Chris suffered a leg injury that hampered him physically and mentally. And then he lost a close relative (his father or his uncle?). I have to applaud both teams for working hard to come back to achieve worthy milestones. But unfortunately, career momentum and rep for both teams were adversely impacted during the process of rebuilding.

Ironically, the eventual situations that led to Chris retiring and Haven & Brandon splitting, paved the way for this new and exciting partnership. The fact that they have progressed so quickly as a new team, even with the complication of shortened training time due to the pandemic, is a testament to their strengths, mutual desires, ongoing familiarity and friendship, coaching team, and to the fact that they are so well-matched -- seemingly even better than they were with their former partners. And let's be honest, that they were well-matched both physically and emotionally with their former pairs partners. It's great that in their final season with their former partners, goals were respectively achieved that probably aided in the break-up decisions, which made the new pairing possible.

I would agree that part of what Alexa & Brandon have going for them as a new team is their mutually strong athleticism, which is a real vibe for this team. Maybe they can find a program and music going forward that will further enhance this positive attribute.

Below is the NBC Sports clip of K/F's fp at 2020 SA; an interview with TT&J afterward is worth listening to. TT&J asked good questions, and I particularly appreciated Brandon response to the final question, which included respect and gratitude for their former partners:

Knierim and Frazier dominate in first Grand Prix event as pair | NBC Sports

Alexa Scimeca Knierim and Brandon Frazier have only been partners since March, but put together a golden performance at Skate America, their first Grand Prix...

www.youtube.com

I wonder why TT&J didn't mention Haven's name already, if they were going to 2 or 3 times reference Brandon's 'former partner'? Maybe sensitivity to Haven is intended since casual viewers wouldn't know anything, and maybe they were concerned that she might not want to be named. Still, I don't see any harm in mentioning Haven's name if they were going to reference her. Of course, I'm speaking of during the commentary. Haven's name wasn't necessary to be mentioned during the interview. It was just great that Brandon gave a respectful shout-out to their former partners.

 

[ladyjane]

I enjoyed watching the Pairs at SA and to me Alexa and Brandon were the stars of the event. I also mentioned in the thread on the SA Free programme my wish for getting them together earlier, but acknowledging that wasn't really fair as both former couples had their successes too. As I understand it, both partners of the former couples were agreed. With Alexa's husband that's quite obvious, he is part of the coaching team. But with the other couple: Alexa even contacted Haven about it to ensure she was happy with it, and Brandon was okay with this happening. There is no 'partner stealing' involved. There is no partner feeling let down. So, I recognise the 'jump' issues they had with their former partners (this sounds harsh, and I don't mean it that way at all), the injuries they accepted and managed to work through for years, the love and caring (I think not one of them has been negative about another) but I'm still very pleased to see this new partnership working out so well! Both their coming together and their current success are all pleasing to everyone.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The topic is listed as FS pairs recap. But I think the below assessment of the pairs SP is spot-on, and leads to my further reflections:

Knierim/Frazier were outstanding in their competitive debut. It was a beautiful skate. Alexa looks so happy to be back, and I'm happy for her too as she's my favorite US pair skater and the one I believe has the most raw potential. She has the potential to be better with Brandon than she was with Chris. Chris definitely had many strengths, but being with someone who is so reliable with jumps could make a world of difference for her.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that Alexa & Brandon's twist is already noticeably higher than it was in those virtual skates they did--- it was explosive and beautiful. They mentioned how they had differing technique/timing on certain elements coming into their new partnership, and you can see them working through that, but their elements are already strong and they don't skate like they've only been together for 5 months. Their throw triple loop is as huge as anybody's in the world. They also look more comfortable doing jumps now than they did with their previous partners who were both nervous jumpers.

Calalang/Johnson also seem to be somewhat nervous jumpers. You don't know what they're going to do on the jumps, but then they can make up plenty of points elsewhere, especially on their twist and their lifts, which is why they can surpass Cain/LeDuc with serious mistakes. I do think their throw 3lutz was scored too high and was based more on them being the favorites coming into the event and less on the actual quality of the throw. This is their weakest pair element, if you had to pick a weak one. She doesn't tend to get good flow out of the throws and they don't get good distance. I would give several of their pair elements great GOE, but not the throws.

The throw is also not a strong element for Cain-Gribble/LeDuc. And their twist is relatively weak compared to top competitors. So despite their good qualities, they already start in a hole against the top 2 pairs. She also frequently underrotates jumps, although I thought the downgrade call she received was possibly a mistake from the tech panel. I don't think the judges were being excessively harsh--- if they wanted to do that, they could have given them fewer points on an element like the twist (they had a -2 to +3 range, which is too much). But the judges seemed to score them normally--- it was the tech panel that made the << call instead of <.

I was a little surprised by the scoring of Lu/Mitrofanov though. They have small throws, and a low twist. They did tiny throws back when they were in Juniors, and they are still pretty much of the same quality today. Yet they received a couple +4s. That was extravagant and helped push them ahead of Cain/LeDuc. I'm not sure domestic judging panels always differentiate enough on the pair elements. A throw that travels across the ice shouldn't get the same GOE as one barely getting off the ground. L/M did beautiful jumps today, but their other elements aren't that strong. I don't think the judges are sending a message to C/L as much as C/L's pair elements just aren't that strong either.

Speaking of small throws, Kayne/O'Shea are getting nailed for small throws and twists, whereas in the past, for some reason, these things seemed more overlooked by domestic judges. Small throws are easier to land, but they don't do much good when you get to a top competition and several pairs have big throws and you're trying to stand out among them. Mervin Tran and his new partner also have very small throws.

Overall I thought it was a good US event. It's nice that the top 2 pairs train together in California. It seems it has helped make both of them good. Alexa and Jessica are also very close friends which is nice.

To the highlighted points, in addition to the one I already spoke about in my previous post:

You make some excellent observations about C/J. They already revealed in a previous interview that their most difficult element to master as new partners has been the throws. It's all about timing and rhythm, as well as melding differences in learned technique. Somehow, despite Jessica seeming off-kilter in the air, she has landed these throws with fair consistency. They definitely can still improve on this element, but I would focus on training and figuring out the jumps most of all. They are aware of adjustments needed on the throws, but have worked something out to this point that's not bad. Of course, the throws still need improvement to receive better GOE, especially internationally. Sbs jumps are C/J's weakest element, and the throws need work, but I wouldn't call throws their weakest pair element. I'm going to go back and check out how Jessica fared with Zach Sidhu on throws, to see if they were better. Certainly, Jess & Brian are a magical pair together, which wasn't close to being the case with their former partners, although both were good and had some success in those partnerships.

One reason C/J's throws are not too bad is because Jessica tends to land with a beautiful back, despite looking off in the air and sometimes seeming to just catch the ice like a cat. Her flow out is not great, but her strong back and blade skills help a lot. Jessica's landings are much better quality than Ashley Cain's landings. Jessica gets great height, but not great distance, so she and Brian can definitely improve. Meanwhile, Ashley tends not to get great height or distance. Ash did land a relatively smooth throw in the fp, but she hasn't so far mastered great technique on her landings with any consistency. At 4CCs one year, Ash managed to land fairly well (albeit forward leaning) a throw where she had enormous height, which sometimes can be hard to manage. So they need to find consistent technique that works better.

Obviously, a lot of factors are involved in trying to make improvements. If it was that easy, pairs fs would be a piece-of-cake. IT IS NOT, even moreso than we realize. I love watching pairs, but I also realize, there's so much to learn about the ins-and-outs of partnering and tech issues than I know, and than meets the eye.


Regarding the SA scoring, C-G/L maybe aren't so much being 'sent a message,' as much as it's quite clear that U.S. figure skating don't seem to value them in the same way because of the great qualities of the top two teams (more recently formed), and the up-and-coming young team, L/M. And as I mentioned previously, last season presented major opportunities for C-G/L that they failed to scale. I'm sure it was personally disappointing for C-G/L. U.S. figure skating has demonstrated a tendency to over-favorite skaters, and then to begin withdrawing support somewhat when skaters falter in big moments. Call it what you will. See it or don't see it, but it's undeniable that subtle and not-so-subtle political factors are always at work. I agree with you about L/M. They are still very much a work-in-progress, and they have time to improve. There seems to be a political push for them this season, when once again the fed should be focusing on across-the-board fair support and better accuracy and consistency in the scoring.

Skaters of course have to perform, but they also need to have consistent support and fair judging. In the absence of that, they definitely need to be strong mentally in order to wade through ups-and-downs. I realize that U.S. fed is not a monolith. It's made up of different people, some of whom are likely still rooting for C-G/L. But others aren't. For e.g., had many judges not been in the Knierims corner at U.S. Nationals, and had Ash&Tim performed better on the 2019 GP and been seen as stronger favorites, the harsh call on Tim's foot position in the death spiral might not have been called IMO. The problem was barely visible and C-G/L did not botch execution, so they should not have been docked receiving any points for that element. It is a mystery why the judges give C-G/L relatively high GOE on their 3-twist. Possibly, the angle that they land is away from the judges' direct view, but they should be able to see the dismount problem on replays. The fact they aren't harshly judged on 3-twist supports my argument that there was no reason for them to be completely docked of points on the death spiral foot placement issue that was so slight and barely visible.

There are similarities to how C-G/L are faring in why Kayne/O'Shea are no longer regarded as highly. There are clearly two teams now in California with building international potential to win medals. K/O rose at a time when they were consistent due to fierce competitiveness, and also when the Knierims and Denney/Frazier were trying to rebuild from injury and illness instead of being able to forge ahead on the world stage. C-G/L and the former team of Stellato/ Bartholomay also filled that regrouping and rebuilding gap experienced by the Ks and D/F. During that time, K/O came on like gangbusters, despite not having great speed or power on their elements. Their weaknesses now are more glaring, despite their feisty exuberance. It hasn't helped them that they've had to suddenly leave Colorado. Perhaps Jim Peterson (who they seemed to have returned to for coaching) can help K/O find a way to improve or at least camouflage their weaknesses. Still, for the foreseeable future, the California teams are on the rise. Even McBeath/Bartholomay look to have exciting potential.

Check out the latest TSL broadcast, and try to ignore Dave's worst qualities, but listen to what he says (albeit with debatable opinions of his own) about the state of U.S. fed politics which impacts the scoring. I don't think Dave is right about everything, but he makes some worthwhile, if overly embellished, points that he's probably focusing on largely for the snark and the drama. I agree with you that most often judges are doing their best and the outcomes aren't always correct. But politics and subjectivity and behind-the-scenes relationships and incidents are always factors that we aren't privy to.

Why are the judges so knee-jerk on over-obsessing on landings that are too close to call, while ignoring more obvious 3-twist dismount issues? I would say that maybe the tech panel misses the 3-twist shoulder contact on C-G/L's dismount, but overly focus on the jump landings because of Ashley's poor rep there. But that's careless judging, in my opinion. Quite often C-G/L are fine on the jump landings (even when unfairly scrutinized), but the dismount touch seems to always occur, though even I didn't notice it until a poster here pointed it out. Maybe I didn't notice the shoulder touch on their dismount, because they tend to score well on their 3-twist. Problems haven't been pointed out by commentators either, to my knowledge.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Well, I've just watched the pairs at Skate America. Here's my short review.

The event got off to a good start. I really enjoyed Alexa and Brandon's skate. They looked so good together, and they also exude joy. To me that last - being joyful - is always very important. The only problem was that the next three skates were such a bummer after that excellent start of the event. I had never seen Emily and Spencer before, and their outing today made me feel I hadn't missed much in that. Olivia and Mervin were a little better than the former couple, but I've seen them do better last season. Anna and Evgeni really had an awful skate. I felt sorry for them, but that thought obviously couldn't make the skate any better. Matters improved during the second batch of couples. I enjoyed watching Audrey and Misha, although they still skate a bit juniorish. Nothing wrong with that, but I tend to like a bit more maturity better. Jessica and Brian are a great pairing, and they're so beautiful to watch. I did think the judges were a bit generous because there was a fall after all. However, the quality skating of the whole programme is undeniable. I really loved watching Ashley and Tim, and felt they got too low scores for what they showed. I like their lines, they're so beautifully synchronised and to me their not so big height difference is a plus (I know not everyone agrees on that with me). The throw had a two footed landing, but that was their only mistake. Also, I loved their costumes. Tarah and Danny did not do well. It's not just the jumps that are lacking, it's as if they made a wrong music choice too. I hope they can improve on this during the FS. I am looking forward to the Free Skate in any case.

I agree with you about Ash&Tim's fine sp, which they performed well, aside from the two-footed landing on the throw. It's got to be deflating for Ash&Tim to be so nitpicked when before they had been widely supported even with flaws. It's a case of U.S. fed having too high expectations that Ash&Tim weren't able to reach during the GP last season. Ash&Tim are still a strong team, and don't deserve the overly negative treatment. I remember when some fans used to complain that Ash&Tim were overly favored. The politics is all over the place now, in terms of how they are being scored.

Emily & Spencer looked promising when they first paired, but they seem to have hit a huge speed bump. Plus, Emily looked out-of-sorts in the kiss 'n cry, while Spencer seemed more easygoing. Another poster in the SA thread suggested that Spencer probably needs a different partner. To my knowledge, I am aware of Spencer having two prior partnerships with U.S. skaters, including Nadine Wang (his most previous partner) -- Wang is currently partnered with Francis Boudreau-Audet of Canada, who had ended his partnership with Sumire Suto of Japan. Some musical chairs partnering that occurred when Spencer was training in Canada, apparently. BTW, Spencer is in a off-ice relationship with Canada's Justine Brasseur, though the pandemic has kept them apart sadly. Brasseur recently partnered with Zach Daleman for Canada, and maybe that will prove to be a fruitful pairing.

As far as Emily & Spencer, they look good together and they have some nice elements at times (a gorgeous throw in the virtual competition recently), but they lack consistently good speed, and their lifts need a lot of work. Their jumps and throws are hit-or-miss, and they don't connect with each other, nor project to the audience -- obviously no audience anymore, but projecting is still necessary. Early clips of their training seemed promising, but I'm not as interested in this team as I used to be, especially not after seeing the lovely on-ice presence of Katie McBeath and solid support of Nate Bartholomay in their new pairing. Katie & Nate train with Meno/Sand's group in Irvine. Once they master a 3-twist, they seem to have the chemistry and budding quality elements that could take them far. At the least, Katie & Nate are bound to move up in the U.S. standings, likely over Serafini/Tran.

I enjoy watching S/F, but maybe Merv is having physical problems or mental blocks that make him inconsistent on the jumps. He wasn't solid on the jumps with Narumi Takahashi, but they had something special together that culminated in their 2012 World bronze medal, backed by Julie Marcotte's outstanding choreo. I think Merv & Liv are happy skating together, and it shows, but the 'reaching the next-level again ship' seemed to have already sailed for Mervin when his partnership with Marissa Castelli didn't work out. I still enjoy watching Merv's smooth moves, and I wish him and Liv well. They have some beautiful touches to their skating (e.g., spread eagles into a death spiral; the gliding switch in positions they smoothly executed as they performed their straight-line footwork into the` 3-twist -- they get decent height on the 3-twist, but their dismounts aren't squeaky clean; mastering 3-twists is an adventure for pairs teams generally).

To sum up, Em/Spence lack chemistry (in the same way that Wang/Boudreau-Audet also lack chemistry). I wonder whether either of these pairings will go very far. Now that Spencer is in Boston, maybe he should try out with Cate Fleming, who recently split with Jedidiah Isbell. Cate is still in juniors, but could probably make a switch to seniors easily. Does Emily's disaffection in the kiss 'n cry hint at something more under-the-surface? Who knows? Emily was a good singles skater, but this pairing seems to have hit a brick wall, due to their performance inconsistencies that were only slightly better in the recent virtual ISP competition. Those videos are still available on U.S. figure skating fan zone.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I enjoyed watching the Pairs at SA and to me Alexa and Brandon were the stars of the event. I also mentioned in the thread on the SA Free programme my wish for getting them together earlier, but acknowledging that wasn't really fair as both former couples had their successes too. As I understand it, both partners of the former couples were agreed. With Alexa's husband that's quite obvious, he is part of the coaching team. But with the other couple: Alexa even contacted Brandon about it to ensure she was happy with it, and Brandon was okay with this happening. There is no 'partner stealing' involved. There is no partner feeling let down. So, I recognise the 'jump' issues they had with their former partners (this sounds harsh, and I don't mean it that way at all), the injuries they accepted and managed to work through for years, the love and caring (I think not one of them has been negative about another) but I'm still very pleased to see this new partnership working out so well! Both their coming together and their current success are all pleasing to everyone.

You mean Alexa contacted Haven about it... Yes, even Haven's Mom had nice compliments for Brandon on Facebook after the split was announced.

As far as wanting Alexa and Brandon to get together sooner, that thought would never have crossed my mind previous to Chris deciding to retire. I always respected the way Brandon stuck by Haven. They have a lot to be proud of, as do Chris & Alexa.

Once Alexa announced that she was still going to compete and was looking for a new partner, there was a lot of speculation among fans about whether another U.S. team would break up in order for the guy to partner with Alexa. I was very skeptical of that happening. But eventually, the thought occurred to me that Haven & Brandon had not fared well at U.S. Nationals after winning two bronze medals on the GP and being closely in the running for GPF. Their coaching situation had to be awkward and distracting during end of December and into January. I would blame their poor showing at Nationals this year on the distractions which were not their fault. Also, look at Brandon's face in the kiss 'n cry at Nationals when their fp scores came up. They'd made mistakes but those type of low scores is deflating, when ordinarily even with mistakes, the judges would not necessarily be as harsh. But granted that Haven/Brandon's performance had been off-kilter, likely due to training distractions.

Also, Haven's problems on jumps was not consistently improving. She stuck at it commendably, but the knee injury seemingly was a big factor in her struggles on jumps. These situations combined made me think that with Chris' retirement, Brandon might reach out to Alexa after making a decision to split with Haven (something I previously thought would never happen). And that's what happened. Let's face it, Haven & Brandon after the Nationals outcome, needed to make some serious decisions about their direction. They'd won medals unexpectedly on the GP, and so their lovingly revised Lion King program is somehow in retrospect their coming full circle, partnership-ending swan song.

It was interesting to find out when Alexa & Brandon's pairing was announced, that Chris and Brandon were close friends as pair boys training and growing up in Colorado. In fact, after Chris & Alexa first paired, Chris reportedly confided in his friend Brandon that he was attracted to Alexa and wanted to ask her out on a date. Brandon accompanied them on their first date (he probably brought someone along himself for a double date perhaps). This is why I say that the fact they are all long time friends helps the Brandon/Alexa partnership. There was no awkward 'getting to know each other' phase, which allowed them to be relaxed and able to get right down to the business of training. Of course, their off-season hook-up involved training off-ice, strategizing for new programs, and otherwise navigating the pandemic lockdown, which also makes their progress together as a team, remarkable.

 

[ladyjane]

You mean Alexa contacted Haven about it... Yes, even Haven's Mom had nice compliments for Brandon on Facebook after the split was announced.

Of course. Edited.

 

[ice coverage]

And then he lost a close relative (his father or his uncle?).

Unfortunately, the answer is both. Chris K lost his father in 2017 and his uncle in 2018.

To sum up, Em/Spence lack chemistry .... Now that Spencer is in Boston, maybe he should try out with Kate Fleming, who recently split with Jedidiah Isbell. ...

I disagree that Emily and Spencer lack chemistry.
They made mistakes at Skate America, but I do not think that they lack chemistry.

The combination of injury and pandemic meant that they were off ice for seven months.
I hope that their partnership will continue to grow.
And I absolutely hate the idea for Spencer to try out with someone else, especially given that Emily just uprooted herself from Dallas to move to Boston for their training.

(Don't get me wrong. I feel supportive of Cate [who spells her name with a C, as I think you know], and I wish her luck in finding a new partner. But not at the expense of an existing partnership that deserves more time to improve together.)

 

[jersey1302]

So, results definitely as expected pretty much. I didn't know what to expect from Alexa and Brandon but my goodness... They instantly are favorites to win the US Title IMO with Jessica and Brian just behind them. If they both skated clean I really don't know who would win. Both teams are captivating. I really think this is the end for Tarah and Danny as well as Ashley and Tim barring big mistakes from the other two pairs. The level of skating and cohesiveness is really quite substantial.

Teams down from 3rd to8th I noticed many levels were lost during elements, speed you could see a big factor as well. I also noticed While Audrey and Misha def have some potential , I was gripping my seat during the lifts hoping he wasnt going to trip over his feet. It looked like he was really struggling to have smooth turns and cross overs while she was up in the air as well as a bit of speed lacked during the lifts too.

I'm super pumped to see how the season will turn out at US Nationals for pairs and is Audrey and Misha can knock out K/O and C-G/L to off the podium spots. I havnt been this interested in US Pairs since Meno and Sand lol.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Unfortunately, the answer is both. Chris K lost his father in 2017 and his uncle in 2018.



I disagree that Emily and Spencer lack chemistry.
They made mistakes at Skate America, but I do not think that they lack chemistry.

The combination of injury and pandemic meant that they were off ice for seven months.
I hope that their partnership will continue to grow.
And I absolutely hate the idea for Spencer to try out with someone else, especially given that Emily just uprooted herself from Dallas to move to Boston for their training.

(Don't get me wrong. I feel supportive of Cate [who spells her name with a C, as I think you know], and I wish her luck in finding a new partner. But not at the expense of an existing partnership that deserves more time to improve together.)

Oh wow, re Chris losing both of these dear men within a short time. I guess that's why I mentioned both, but I'd forgotten the details and the chronology. Boy, Chris has had a tough time. He almost lost his wife too. Honestly, that must have been the point when Chris placed competitive figure skating into perspective and was pretty much done with it emotionally, especially combined with the after-effects of his leg injury. Everything Chris did in continuing to compete after Alexa lived and healed post her strange illness, was surely done out of deep love and enormous gratitude that he still has her by his side. Chris & Alexa are the sweetest ever couple goals!!! (And the nicest of people too, right up there with Meno/Sand, which is why that coaching switch made so much sense and worked beautifully). Brandon Frazier is another salt-of-the-earth, kind and loyal sweetheart of a guy. Not to mention such a solid and strong, hard-working pairs dude! Yeah!

Sorry I misspelled Cate Fleming's first name. I was surprised to see her and Jedidiah Isbell split. Plus there's been no explanation as to why. Maybe Diah wants to preserve his privacy, and they aren't a very well-known team since they were in juniors. Still, it seems to me that they were being primed as a promising up-and-coming team, and then suddenly they've split. I'm old enough to know that life happens. But figure skating is supposed to be my fantasy escape. wink

Of course, you are right about being patient with Emily and Spencer. They do have a nice look together and at times pull off some gorgeous skills, but there's so much inconsistency from them at this juncture. I realize that I shouldn't be as impatient as U.S. fed, who I'm always sticking it to and complaining about regarding their over-favoritism and easy dismissal when skaters fail to live up to expectations. I understand that pairs is hard. And I know too that it's not a good idea to get on skaters about their demeanor in the kiss 'n cry, which can be momentary and ultimately not an indicator of serious problems. The fact they are wearing masks also makes certain behavior a mystery in the kiss 'n cry. Spencer certainly seemed more relaxed and unbothered after their performance. I suppose Emily was unhappy and inconsolable about the miscues, or maybe she was upset with Spencer about the lift problems? Someone else voiced in a different thread that they thought Emily wasn't holding up her end on the lifts. This is all speculation since none of us are part of their coaching team nor inside their heads. Emily has some fun posts on her Instagram, but I don't know much about her. I enjoyed Spencer in juniors formerly with his partner before Nadine Wang (I don't recall her name).

ETA: You mention Emily uprooting from Dallas to Boston. But Spencer's been everywhere, hasn't he, in pursuit of pairs, including Montreal, California, Texas, and now Boston? Where was Spencer born in the U.S.? Is his mother Japanese-American?

Pairs is certainly hard, and the difficulty of truly coming together on all cylinders as partners complicates everything. There has been a lot of impatience within the U.S. pairs discipline, particularly in juniors because these athletes are young and still growing physically and mentally. Not to mention the parental or family involvement and situations that can impact a promising partnership. Plus, interests change when you're young and still growing, so constant switches and splits are endemic in juniors. So many young skaters don't end up thriving together as physical matches, or in terms of goals. That's why the unusual long term pairings of Davis/White, Virtue/Moir, Babilonia/Gardner, et al, are so special.

Sure, it's not a good idea to suggest partner switches in a knee-jerk fashion. Partnering with the right person is such an elusive and difficult enterprise, especially when male prospects in figure skating are so scarce. And the 'grass always looks greener' phenomenon. The elusive nature, and the mysteries and magic of skating partnerships are part of my endless fascination for pairs and ice dance. When everything comes together and works out so right, it is glorious. But those moments are few and far between. We need a greatest pairs performances compilation tape, post-haste!

Starting with Aljona/Bruno Olympics 2018, and the best of James/Cipres circa 2016-2019, plus the best of Berezhnaya/ Sikharulidze, Sale/Pelletier, Shen/Zhao, Aljona/Robin, Tat/Max, Dmitriev & partners, the best of Kavaguti/Smirnov, Calla&Rocky, Underhill/Martini, Meno/Sand, Duhamel/Radford, Ina/Zimmerman, Knierims' best including at 4CCs and 2020 Nationals sp, Sui/Han at their best, Pang/Tong's best, Calalang/Johnson 2020 Nationals fp, the best of Gordeeva/Grinkov, and the Protopopovs, Tai&Randy winning 1979 Worlds, and the list goes on...

And then a separate all-time best compilation of great ice dance performances.

 

[happycamper2554]

So, results definitely as expected pretty much. I didn't know what to expect from Alexa and Brandon but my goodness... They instantly are favorites to win the US Title IMO with Jessica and Brian just behind them. If they both skated clean I really don't know who would win. Both teams are captivating. I really think this is the end for Tarah and Danny as well as Ashley and Tim barring big mistakes from the other two pairs. The level of skating and cohesiveness is really quite substantial.

Teams down from 3rd to8th I noticed many levels were lost during elements, speed you could see a big factor as well. I also noticed While Audrey and Misha def have some potential , I was gripping my seat during the lifts hoping he wasnt going to trip over his feet. It looked like he was really struggling to have smooth turns and cross overs while she was up in the air as well as a bit of speed lacked during the lifts too.

I'm super pumped to see how the season will turn out at US Nationals for pairs and is Audrey and Misha can knock out K/O and C-G/L to off the podium spots. I havnt been this interested in US Pairs since Meno and Sand lol.

We say this ever year about tarah and danny and then they turn it around for nationals. I expect it to happen again.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I'm super pumped to see how the season will turn out at US Nationals for pairs and is Audrey and Misha can knock out K/O and C-G/L to off the podium spots. I havnt been this interested in US Pairs since Meno and Sand lol.

I am happy too for this burgeoning excitement surrounding U.S. pairs teams. But I've been a fan of U.S. pairs since Tai & Randy, and I could bore you with all of my fond memories of unforgettable moments, including this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvp96fqlRTk John Z was such a handsome hunk and very talented

This type of program (choreo by P.Oppegard) with a story and character theme can work so beautifully, but is so hard to create because the music, choreo, timing, costumes, pairs abilities and personalities of the two partners has to be just right. They were very fast and a budding team, but Stephanie soon broke her shoulder or her arm, and John quickly moved on to find another partner, of course landing with Kyoko Ina who had split with Jason Dungjen

Some more under-rated U.S. pairs: Marci Hinzmann & Aaron Parchem who earned a spot on the 2006 Olympics team with Rena Inoue/ John Baldwin. Also, Amanda Evora & Mark Ladwig were an attractive team with amazing lifts. Evora/Ladwig reached their height with two clean programs at the 2010 Olympics which were woefully underscored in favor of disappointing performances by more favored Canadian teams at that Olympics. Rockne Brubaker was an amazing U.S. pairs guy who had bad luck with partnerships that should have gone further (with Keauna McLaughlin and later with Mary Beth Marley).

Mary Beth Marley and Rockne Brubaker SP Skate America 2011

http://recintomoxo.net

www.youtube.com

I notice that Mary Beth Marley gets huge height but not a lot of distance on her throw, similar to Jessica currently

K. MCLAUGHLIN & R. BRUBAKER - 2008 US NATIONALS - FS

KEANA MCLAUGHLIN & ROCKNE BRUBAKER - 2008 US NATIONALS - FREE SKATE

www.youtube.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1GdSHa41Uo How soon we forget; the judges sat there and low-balled them; horrid figure skating politics at its worst

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL3b4zFBYwE How soon we forget; Hinzmann/ Parchem were a very stylish team with huge talent; he was so solid as a rock on jumps, that's why him falling at the 2006 Olympics was unexpected, especially when Marci finally got the jitters out. But that's what happens quite often in pairs, with one partner unsteady and the other solid, and then the unsteady partner gets it together and the steady one falters. Anyway, the linked 2005 Skate America sp is slightly cut off at the beginning, but it was obviously a crowd-pleaser, with the audience clapping throughout. One of the commenters mentions it was so exciting to witness their performance live.
More on Aaron Parchem who coached a little after retiring, but I guess he no longer coaches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Parchem (Johnny Johns and Mitch Moyer were his coaches)
The judges didn't give them due credit on PCS!!! What were they looking at? But since they came in second in the sp and I believe second overall, I suppose 55 was considered a good pairs sp program score back in the early days of CoP judging.

Johnny Johns clapping and celebrating at rink side after H/P's performance made me go back and check because I know Johns was also a pairs skater with Melissa Militano (after her brother stopped skating). I'm more familiar with Tai & Randy in the later 1970s, but obviously, Johnny Johns and Melissa Militano in the early to mid-1970s were a part of the creative and innovative expansion of difficult pairs elements (performing split triple twists, and triple throws at a time when doubles were more the norm). From the crappy videos that are available, Melissa & Johnny were not always successful but they went for it, and they looked stylish attempting these difficult athletic moves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcDLjecorrw (sound is harsh and erratic, but the visuals though flickering can be discerned)

1975 Melissa Militano Johnny Johns - Worlds LP

Melissa and Johnny had just completed a fantastic warm-up, (landing all these triple twists, toe walleys, and throw loops; but went flat in the opening of th...

www.youtube.com

Here's a much better video of Melissa with her brother, Mark at 1971 Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHX2g49rMCQ they did a throw single axel, so attempting a throw double axel with Johns several years later was adventurous; some of the lift positions are interesting and reminiscent of what we see today; they come to a complete stop and move into a slow, lyrical mid-section, which just doesn't happen much in pairs today because it's non-stop, high energy difficult elements from beginning to end. However, it is important for pairs to pace themselves. The dance-like lift and set down move which we see in ice dance, and now again in pairs today, was probably lifted from pairs by ice dance, and then back to pairs. It's rather amazing to look back and notice all of these connections.

Here's a very old 1950s video of John Nicks skating with his sister, Jennifer for Great Britain, with a strange, overlaid soundtrack which is not what they were skating to. I've never seen footage of Mr. Nicks skating before. The connection again is that Nicks coached Tai/Randy and Meno/Sand, among a number of famous singles skaters... The pairs legacy is so fascinating and completely untapped in figure skating in terms of any active, coordinated unearthing and documenting (that for example we always see in baseball and some other sports):

1951 Jennifer and John Nicks EUROPEANS (Great Britain)

Some stop action and slow motion of Jennifer and John skating to a European Silver medal in 1951.Interesting how his body line is somewhat similar to Randy G...

www.youtube.com

Silent Pathe footage a couple of years later, with much better visuals; Mr. Nicks was cute:

European Ice Skating Championships (1953)

Unissued / Unused material. Westphalia Hall, Dortmund, Germany. Various shots of John and Jennifer Nicks and Valda Osborn competing in the European Ice Skati...

www.youtube.com

There was also Starbuck/Shelley before Tai/Randy, and later Peter & Kitty Carruthers and Watson/Oppegard (Olympic silver and bronze medalists respectively). Calla Urbanski & Rocky Marval were fun to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuokNJtGoKI (I like their invented pendulum lift, and that lunge before the gorgeous throw double axel; hey current pairs skaters and choreographers, why not rediscover and recycle some of these inspirations) Boy, did Calla & Rocky have drama on-and-off the ice though LOL

Let's not forget U.S. pairs legacy and the history of pairs skating in general. Or, more aptly, let's find out more about the history and legacy and show more respect to U.S. pairs and to skaters generally, and to all the fascinating connections the sport holds.

I remember this well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x14mYVPj3VY (We get to see brief glimpses of John Nicks, and of Russia's Shiskova/Naumov, parents of current U.S. men's skater, Max Naumov) Again, lots of connections -- that last lift position is one that Jessica performs, albeit with more variations and difficulty today

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Regarding diversity in figure skating, let's take a peek back at 1972 U.S. figure skating and the fp of the winning junior pairs champions, Michelle McCladdie and Richard Ewell. This program is very exciting and they look like mature seniors performing it. Sadly, they retired after this because I suppose as African American figure skaters they didn't have a ton of encouragement and backing or financial prospects to continue on to a competitive career in seniors, and that's too bad.

The video quality isn't great, but it's better than the Militano/Johns clips:

1972 Michelle McCladdie Richard Ewell US Nationals LP Junior

This is the first African American National Champion team (yes, she is African American even with such a first class Irish name). They look a lot like Tai an...

www.youtube.com

Wow, in that first death spiral, McCladdie enters it on a forward inside edge, then flips into a backward outside edge, and then back to a forward inside edge before the dismount. There are a few ice dance type moves in their program that we see today, which again is evidence of the cross-fertilization back-and-forth over the decades between pairs and ice dance. There are lots of style and movement inspirations in this program. The footwork sequence into the sbs double jumps is sparkling. The lifts are fairly standard and basic in comparison to the difficulty we see today, and they only performed what looks like a single twist. But as juniors, this team had a lot of maturity and pizzazz.

I especially enjoy later in their program, the second death spiral entry where McCladdie moves into a backward arch with one leg lifted. She and Ewell touch hands, and then he completely leaves his partner and casually completes a double axel while McCladdie continues gliding in her backward arched position with her arm outstretched. After his 2-axel, Ewell takes her hand again and they complete the second death spiral. This series of moves in 1972 is reminiscent of the innovation and athletic exploration that was occurring during the 1970s, as we saw in the risk-taking performances of Militano/Johns, who while they faltered on some of their unusual moves at 1975 Worlds, they still expanded the horizons of pairs figure skating. What can athletes, coaches and choreographers of today take away from these past performances?

BTW, Hinzmann/Parchem used to perform (mainly in exhibition) the sideways leap into the man's arms that James/Cipres performed in their 2017 Earned It program at Euros, before moving seamlessly into a throw-triple. Jeremy Barrett performed that leap move with Caydee Denney as well, and Barrett is responsible for suggesting and teaching it to James/Cipres. I'm not sure who taught it to Barrett & Denney. As I said, connections and understanding legacy and passing down a deeper understanding of history are so important in the pairs discipline and in figure skating in general.

I really think this is the end for Tarah and Danny as well as Ashley and Tim barring big mistakes from the other two pairs.

I understand why you say this, and I've been critical too. Still, I don't think we should completely write-off these teams simply because they need to make improvements. More aptly, the question is: Will they be able to make the necessary changes and adjustments that might help them get different and better results moving forward? Despite some people in U.S. figure skating seeming to drop Ash & Tim with harsh judging that in some cases isn't even accurate, and despite Tarah & Danny needing to improve their speed and gain more power and pop on their elements, both of these teams are still needed to help continue pushing forward the U.S. pairs discipline. They should not be slighted for shiny, new up-and-coming teams who also continue to have a lot of work to do. Depth and ongoing vigorous rivalries among U.S. pairs teams is a good thing.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I'll keep this short and sweet. We now have two teams in pairs which look like they won't break our hearts. And they are going to push each other forward.

Happier days.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Yes, it is exciting to see two top teams with such world-class skills. Plus, with more time together, Brandon & Alexa should continue building consistency on their jumps. It will be nice to see if they can find some dynamite and unique programs moving forward that enhance who they are as a team on the ice.

C/J are very special. Hopefully, they can do some jump drills and visualization and stoke their confidence on the sbs jumps. They can land them, they just need to gain confidence and not worry about each other or tense up going into them.

Apparently, K/O have not yet made a decision on where to relocate for coaching. They've tried out with Brubaker in Chicago, Jim in Detroit, and the Letovs in Boston. Jim accompanied them to Skate America, but apparently that doesn't mean they've decided to return to him necessarily. They definitely need to think about how they can improve their abilites to be more competitive. It would really be exciting if they got better on their weaknesses and came loaded for bear to U.S. Nationals.

Ashley & Tim, I'm sad that I don't get the sense they are being fairly judged. A lot of fans are talking about how it looks like U.S. judges are trying to fine-tooth comb them. Even NBC commentators discussed this I heard, though I didn't see the NBCSN coverage. Ash & Tim should think about making some changes to improve. I don't know what direction changes should take, but the time is now for them to brainstorm and to act. They have unique qualities and I think the U.S. field would be lacking if they weren't in the mix. I heard fans suggested Ash should explore skating for another country like Australia, since her father was born there. Her mother is Canadian, but that's a non-starter since Canada has rebuilt depth in their pairs. Australia seems like an option, but that won't work at this late date with Ashley and Tim being older skaters likely planning to retire post the next Olympics. Plus, Ashley has always said she wouldn't switch countries because she's patriotic. U.S. fed would give them a hard time on releasing too, so this suggestion is dead-in-the-water and moot.

Harley Windsor must still be looking for a partner in Australia. I wonder if Cate Fleming would consider making such a move? At the least, they could try out.

I love all the U.S. teams honestly, and a few teams have a special place in my heart, but I root for them all doing their best.

 

[jersey1302]

I understand why you say this, and I've been critical too. Still, I don't think we should completely write-off these teams simply because they need to make improvements. More aptly, the question is: Will they be able to make the necessary changes and adjustments that might help them get different and better results moving forward? Despite some people in U.S. figure skating seeming to drop Ash & Tim with harsh judging that in some cases isn't even accurate, and despite Tarah & Danny needing to improve their speed and gain more power and pop on their elements, both of these teams are still needed to help continue pushing forward the U.S. pairs discipline. They should not be slighted for shiny, new up-and-coming teams who also continue to have a lot of work to do. Depth and ongoing vigorous rivalries among U.S. pairs teams is a good thing.

I do understand what you're saying and I hope I'm wrong but I just see an instant stronger connection on the ice with these two over the more experienced two. I think its going to be extremely difficult for them to pull up and beat em. I love a good fight so I hope I'm wrong. Id LOVE for a US pairs nationals to go down to the wire between 4 teams!

 

[jersey1302]

We say this ever year about tarah and danny and then they turn it around for nationals. I expect it to happen again

Yea we really do haha. I dont see them coming close to a 214 though in points. They have ALOT to do to get up there. Their previous best is 198.

 

[skylark]

I do understand what you're saying and I hope I'm wrong but I just see an instant stronger connection on the ice with these two over the more experienced two. I think its going to be extremely difficult for them to pull up and beat em. I love a good fight so I hope I'm wrong. Id LOVE for a US pairs nationals to go down to the wire between 4 teams!

That's exactly what happened at US nationals in 2019. Ashley and Tim; Haven and Brandon; Deanna and Nate; and Tarah and Danny. Did you see it? It's still available in NBCgold archives until Dec. 31. (Chris Knierim was injured and skated anyway, but that's why the Knierims weren't in the mix at the top that year.)

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I do understand what you're saying and I hope I'm wrong but I just see an instant stronger connection on the ice with these two over the more experienced two. I think its going to be extremely difficult for them to pull up and beat em. I love a good fight so I hope I'm wrong. Id LOVE for a US pairs nationals to go down to the wire between 4 teams!

Which teams are you referencing in your above comments though? Are you saying that you see K/F as a team who is better (as a newer pair) than Ash&Tim and K/O? If that's what you're saying, I don't argue that K/F already have better throws, jumps, 3-twist, lifts and fp costumes than C-G/L, and better speed, throws, jumps, and 3-twist than K/O.

As far as connection and presentation, I'd have to give Ash & Tim the edge over K/F at the moment, and Ash/Tim are miles better on presentation than Lu/Mitrofanov, which is why they should have edged L/M at Skate America overall. I just think that Ash/Tim's fp needs more work, and that right now C/J and K/F have better program packaging. Though I think Ash/Tim's sp is on a par with the top two teams choreographically. It's just that Ash/Tim are a bit weaker on throws, and twist, while competent but not wowza on lifts. So Ash/Tim absolutely need to ace their high base value jumps, without any hint of URs. Once you get a rep for URs, it's hard to escape because the judges nitpick and over-examine, which leads to a vicious cycle of skaters losing confidence unless they find a way to fight back to get out from under the UR stain.

I don't think there's any question that U.S. fed used K/O and Ash/Tim as filler fodder while Denney/Frazier and the Knierims were regrouping from setbacks. Still, U.S. fed's faves were always the Knierims because the Knierims had the money elements, if not the consistency and impactful artistry. In their last couple of seasons, the Knierims were improving their program selection and presentation skills, but they had to comeback from poor competitive showings caused by uprooting their lives to take a chance on training with Aljona and improving all aspects of their skating.

There were some contingent in U.S. fed who were and maybe some still are in Ash's corner because she'd always been well-liked and Mitch Moyer had brought Ash/Tim together. But by not excelling when they had the opportunity open to them in 2019 apparently has caused U.S. fed to not be as forgiving or supportive toward Ash/Tim. Previously, that very close call on the sp jump for Ash would not have been made a fuss over. The call would have gone in Ash's favor when she and Tom were in U.S. fed's good graces. Now, they are being second-guessed.

 

[skylark]

Ashley & Tim, I'm sad that I don't get the sense they are being fairly judged. A lot of fans are talking about how it looks like U.S. judges are trying to fine-tooth comb them. Even NBC commentators discussed this I heard, though I didn't see the NBCSN coverage. Ash & Tim should think about making some changes to improve. I don't know what direction changes should take, but the time is now for them to brainstorm and to act. They have unique qualities and I think the U.S. field would be lacking if they weren't in the mix.

I agree completely. I'd like to see Ashley and Tim re-think a couple of their lifts. I think their SP Group 3 lift shows well, and also their FS Axel lasso lift, which has really improved and gotten more beautiful over the past 3 years. I loved their reverse lasso lift as it developed over last season, partly because Ashley's legs, completely extended, created an awesome look of owning the space and owning the ice. In general, that's something I really love about their skating, so I want to see that as a wow factor in their reverse lasso also. This year she's turned it into having both knees bent, and it's just not as pleasing or impressive to see, IMO.

And their group3 lift in the FS, the way it plays out, just makes it look like Tim pushes a bit to lift her. Not a good look, and it may not be factually the case, it just looks that way and the camera angle (from the judges viewpoint!) just doesn't work to their benefit. I'd rather see it as they performed it at Nationals 2019, longer in duration ... but with the present cartwheel exit.

I think tweaking these two lifts would go a long way toward raising the way the judges think about their programs and their skating. The team knows how to maximize the levels, but it will be great when the lifts overall look more graceful and airy. I'm counting on it and looking forward to it. I hope Ashley and Tim won't be discouraged by the SA results. I hope they'll use it as motivation to make improvements in all areas and most importantly, to highlight and fulfill their strengths and their unique talents.

That's actually what I want for all our US teams. Seeing each of them fulfill their talent is much more rewarding to me than who wins, although that's exciting too. It's thrilling that we have more than one or two teams to push each other. From what I've read and heard from (particularly) Jessica and Brian and Ashley and Tim, I think our pairs like being a team that collectively brings US pairs forward.