2020 Skate America: Pairs' recap

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ Some great suggestions @skylark. Maybe you should message Ashley on Instagram with some of your suggestions, support and encouragement. I'm sure she would welcome you reaching out.

Yes perhaps the knees bent feature on the new lift doesn't look as great because Ash has longer legs? She needs to find cool looking and difficult lift elements that enhance the impact of her body build. And they really should change their ending pose which looks awkward and doesn't show Ash off to her best advantage.

I'm remembering some lifts that Olivia Oltmanns used to perform with former partner, Josh Santillan. Olivia was taller than average pairs ladies with long legs, and she executed some beautiful lift positions with Josh. She retired though after 2012 senior debut with Josh because she was growing too tall for him. The lifts I'm talking about were at U.S. Nationals, and those clips aren't on YouTube. Olivia wasn't a great jumper, and I think they only ever did a double twist, but she had graceful moves over the ice. Josh is better matched with Jessica Pfund.

 

[ice coverage]

... ETA: You mention Emily uprooting from Dallas to Boston. But Spencer's been everywhere, hasn't he, in pursuit of pairs, including Montreal, California, Texas, and now Boston? ...

But has Spencer ever been in a scenario of relocating with an existing partner who then immediately proceeds to try out with someone else who is based in the new location?

That's the only thing that would be equivalent to the fate that you are proposing for Emily.
And in your hypothetical scenario, Spencer's relocations would not absolve him of pulling the rug out from under her immediately after she uprooted herself for the sake of their partnership.

Before Emily and Spencer moved their partnership to Boston, I hope that they would have agreed to some level of commitment to the partnership.
At the very least for the entirety of the 2020-21 season, for crying out loud.

---

On topic for this thread: A big step forward for Audrey and Misha. Good for them.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

But has Spencer ever been in a scenario of relocating with an existing partner who then immediately proceeds to try out with someone else who is based in the new location?

That's the only thing that would be equivalent to the fate that you are proposing for Emily.
And in your hypothetical scenario, Spencer's relocations would not absolve him of pulling the rug out from under her immediately after she uprooted herself for the sake of their partnership.

Before Emily and Spencer moved their partnership to Boston, I hope that they would have agreed to some level of commitment to the partnership.
At the very least for the entirety of the 2020-21 season, for crying out loud.

Huh? As an afterthought I simply asked a question in my previous post concerning Spencer. My reason for asking had nothing to do with any intention of unfavorably comparing his relocation experiences with Emily's uprooting from Dallas. Plus, I wasn't justifying a partner switch either simply by asking questions about Spencer's background and wanderings in pursuit of his competitive passions.

I responded to your objections already regarding my earlier wondering about the state of the Chan/Howe partnership, and I conceded that it's not a good idea to speculate on behavior by skaters in the kiss 'n cry. I also pointed out some of the attributes that initially had me admiring C/H's pairing. I suppose you really like Chan/Howe and are rooting for them. You seem so offended by my comments and by my harmless question regarding Spencer's travels. Hopefully, more time will allow Chan/Howe to get past the hurdles they are currently facing and become more consistent.

I am not 'proposing' any particular fate for Emily either. That's in your head, apparently. My earlier comments (as I already explained) had been sparked by what a poster said in the SA competition thread about C/H's lift issues. That poster suggested Spencer needs to explore finding a new partner. Granted that kind of knee-jerk speculation as soon as a team experiences difficulties, is unfair. Unfortunately, plenty of fans resort to this type of jumping to conclusions, and it's probably best not to join in. Unbelievably, I've seen someone suggest that Brian should dump Jessica, which is head-shaking when they are so well matched, and they both have issues with confidence on their sbs jumps. They just need to find steadiness and confidence on their jumps at the same time, and more consistently.

Sadly though a lot of stuff happens in this sport, especially in terms of partnerships, that isn't exactly fair.

 

[ice coverage]

... Now that Spencer is in Boston, maybe he should try out with Cate Fleming, who recently split with Jedidiah Isbell. Cate is still in juniors, but could probably make a switch to seniors easily. ...

But has Spencer ever been in a scenario of relocating with an existing partner who then immediately proceeds to try out with someone else who is based in the new location?

That's the only thing that would be equivalent to the fate that you are proposing for Emily.

I am not 'proposing' any particular fate for Emily either. That's in your head, apparently.

It's my turn to say, "Huh?"
What is in my head is what you yourself said.

I have re-quoted your original comments that prompted my first response.
If you were not proposing a tryout for Emily's partner Spencer within weeks of their partnership moving to Boston, then you could have fooled me.

---

... ETA: You mention Emily uprooting from Dallas to Boston. But Spencer's been everywhere, hasn't he, in pursuit of pairs, including Montreal, California, Texas, and now Boston? Where was Spencer born in the U.S.? Is his mother Japanese-American? ...

... Huh? As an afterthought I simply asked a question in my previous post concerning Spencer. My reason for asking had nothing to do with any intention of unfavorably comparing his relocation experiences with Emily's uprooting from Dallas. Plus, I wasn't justifying a partner switch either simply by asking questions about Spencer's background and wanderings in pursuit of his competitive passions.

... I suppose you really like Chan/Howe and are rooting for them. You seem so offended by my comments and by my harmless question regarding Spencer's travels. ...

If your intent was simply to ask a harmless question -- and was not to make a comparison between Emily's relocation to Boston and Spencer's series of relocations -- then I do not understand why your phrasing was (emphasis added), "... You mention Emily ... But Spencer ...."
You chose the wording of "But," which made the question seem provocative to me.
Words matter to me.

Yes, I do like the Chan/Howe partnership.
You're telling me now that your question was intended to be harmless. But it had come across quite differently to me, and I reacted accordingly.

I am ready for this conversation to come to an end, and I will try to leave it there.

 

[jersey1302]

Which teams are you referencing in your above comments though? Are you saying that you see K/F as a team who is better (as a newer pair) than Ash&Tim and K/O? If that's what you're saying, I don't argue that K/F already have better throws, jumps, 3-twist, lifts and fp costumes than C-G/L, and better speed, throws, jumps, and 3-twist than K/O.

Yeah thats pretty much exactly what I am saying. Ashley and Tim forsure have a pretty good connection aswell but I just feel a different feeling with Alexa and Brandon. If I have this feeling already after they have only been together for a few months, I can imagine a year or more. I still feel theres something the other i mentioned is missing.

 

[RoyThree]

Check out the latest TSL broadcast, and try to ignore Dave's worst qualities, but listen to what he says (albeit with debatable opinions of his own) about the state of U.S. fed politics which impacts the scoring. I don't think Dave is right about everything, but he makes some worthwhile, if overly embellished, points that he's probably focusing on largely for the snark and the drama. I agree with you that most often judges are doing their best and the outcomes aren't always correct. But politics and subjectivity and behind-the-scenes relationships and incidents are always factors that we aren't privy to.

I was really intrigued by Dave's comments about the personal connections between some of the judges, tech callers, and coaches. He has much more insight and knowledge of this than a lay person like me. I also found their anaylsis of the scoring for Skate America interesting as well. I guess the bottom line is that you need to know how to play the politics of the sport.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ Yes @RoyThree, I think behind-the-scenes politics is a huge factor in figure skating, but talent, training strategies, the right coaches, timing and luck are also important factors.

Dave seems to overly delight in all the insider and backstage gossip in a rather snarky way, even though he sometimes makes interesting observations.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Yeah thats pretty much exactly what I am saying. Ashley and Tim forsure have a pretty good connection aswell but I just feel a different feeling with Alexa and Brandon. If I have this feeling already after they have only been together for a few months, I can imagine a year or more. I still feel theres something the other i mentioned is missing.

Yes, I think it's obvious that K/F are a top quality team. But C-G/L have excellent qualities and competitiveness too. They just need to get through some hurdles and regain confidence, in addition to repairing weaknesses. K/O's biggest issues are their relative slowness and lack of power and pop on the money elements. It must not be easy for Tarah to correct and improve her blade skills, which would help them gain more speed. I wonder if the ability to gain speed in figure skating has ever been researched and measured. It would be a fascinating topic of study.

 

[jersey1302]

wonder if the ability to gain speed in figure skating has ever been researched and measured. It would be a fascinating topic of study.

I bet you there is if you searched for it, I'm almost positive its been done for hockey. There was a study I read from a student at the University of Manitoba that talked about jumps, angels, how to scientifically get the most height and distance in a jump off the ice etc. Was very interesting. Almost too complex haha.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I am ready for this conversation to come to an end, and I will try to leave it there.

LOL. Great, cuz I already thought the conversation had been ended, so I had to jog my memory when I just noticed your, hopefully, final post on the topic.

Good luck to Chan/Howe, and to Kate Fleming in her partner search.