2022 Winter Olympics: Free Dance

[moonvine]

Which is a natural reaction to seeing Bing Dwen Dwen.

Indeed it is.

 

[moonvine]

. Looks like Canada is not winning a medal in skating unless Valieva is dq'd

Don't worry! Phil Hersch already awarded the pairs gold medal to James and Radford.

 

[moonvine]

I wonder if there is a certain Russian style that my sister and I and V/M don’t respond to. It’s kind of a circus-y thing, palms facing up, (tah-dah) Mishin style (except Kolyada doesn’t do it but he didn’t develop his style under Mishin). I feel the same way about the Russian pairs team who are the favorites. It’s that same style I don’t care for. But I love, love, love Tarasova and Mozalev (and I know I’m in the minority there! And I always seem to pick ppl with inconsistency, not on purpose, lol).

YES! It is the same Russian style I don't respond to! I call it "angsty Russian skating."

 

[moonvine]

I don´t agree that C/B´s free dance is so innovative. Maybe regarding the music choice and the costumes, but not regarding the movement/choreography. It could be any old love story in my opinion.
My heart breaks for Piper and Paul , but sadly they couldn´t bring their programs to perfection this season.

I loved C/B's movement/choreography. It seemed very creepy/alien to me.

 

[DancingCactus]

I finally finished watching and there are at least two programs that I have to watch again in like five minutes, because I loved them so much.

Impressions:

- That afwul rendition of Bad Romance was just awful.
- The Canadian team with the bird theme was very interesting, although she was overacting a bit imo.
- Smart/Diaz: That program is so cool, the choreo, the dress, the powerful lifts and the drama. One of my two favourite long programs of the season and they performed it really well this time.
-G/F: They might have good skating skills, but I can't appreciate them. Bland costumes, bland choreo, bland everything.
- S/B: that mistake was unfortunate. This really is the one pair where I can't help but ignore the lady because the guy is just so much more impressive. The color of her dress doesn't help.
- Piper and Paul....this really is unfortunate. I love them, I love this program, but that damn fudged lift...ugh. They were still lowballed in PCS I believe. Also, the blue costumes worked better, I think.
- S/K have no business being on that podium. Boring lifts, boring choreo, cheesy acting and Nikita's movemerns look very stiff. Compare him to Bukin, it's like night an day. And that tacked on fast part at the end...No, just no.
- H/D: still not my favourite pair but their skating is great, the choreo feels interesting and innovative and exactly on point and they should have been second.
- P/C: also not my faves, but they ARE the best atm. Don't like the music, loved her dress.
- Chock/Bates: This program has really grown on me and I can now say that it is definitely one of my favourite programs of all time. The lifts and choreo elements are so beautiful, the whole atmosphere with her movements combined with that music just make for an eerie, wonderful program with a fantastic climax. I wish they would have medalled. Go aliens!

 

[yelyoh]

S/K had the worse lifts of all the skaters. Easier and not all that well executed and since lifts are a big part of the score they should not have been anywhere near the podium. And the PCS were a joke!! It should have been P/C of course then H/D and then C/B. What the #^@^#*# was on the judges minds? That silver was a gift but for what I don't know.

 

[Ladskater]

I watched our Canadian team of course. Very proud of all of them for their hard work and participation in a very high level competitive field. Really disappointed for Piper and Paul, I feel they got undermarked. Even Scott Moir said they should have been closer to the Russian team. They should have been in 4th place in my opinion. I saw quite a few teams make errors. The Spanish team have the best choreography.

 

[Ladskater]

S/K had the worse lifts of all the skaters. Easier and not all that well executed and since lifts are a big part of the score they should not have been anywhere near the podium. And the PCS were a joke!! It should have been P/C of course then H/D and then C/B. What the #^@^#*# was on the judges minds? That silver was a gift but for what I don't know.

I agree with most of what you say here except Piper and Paul should have been on the podium. Not crazy about P/C but it was a given they would win.

 

[yelyoh]

I agree with most of what you say here except Piper and Paul should have been on the podium. Not crazy about P/C but it was a given they would win.

Piper and Paul's programs were indeed terrific and earlier in the season I though they were a real possibility for the podium but they were not at their best at these Olympics sad to say.

 

[Ladskater]

Piper and Paul's programs were indeed terrific and earlier in the season I though they were a real possibility for the podium but they were not at their best at these Olympics sad to say.

I'm not so sure. Maybe not, but the judging was also pretty harsh (for some) while not for others...typical

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

- Chock/Bates: This program has really grown on me and I can now say that it is definitely one of my favourite programs of all time. The lifts and choreo elements are so beautiful, the whole atmosphere with her movements combined with that music just make for an eerie, wonderful program with a fantastic climax. I wish they would have medalled. Go aliens!

Same here. It's just so iconic and I love how it's grown this season. Interestingly even though they're a couple off-ice, this program expresses a different kind of love from what we usually see in ice dance programs, where romance tends to be contrived and a bit literal — more like, two different beings (human and non-human) meeting each other and developing a wordless connection (through their skating and mutual movements, really)... it's such an avant garde and beautiful message. It kinda reminds me of The Shape of Water. Daft Punk is just so beautiful and haunting, especially middle section with "Within". The highlights are boundless in this program(I mean that sliding move is EVERYTHING, and love that move where he spins her into that forward lunge). The judges/world perhaps weren't ready for this kind of program which is so unusual, but they really brought it to life and absolutely nailed the concept and interpretation (I mean, Madison is just perfect and literally the most versatile ice dancer in terms of playing characters).

 

[discodisco]

Challenge to all of us: Rather than this thread (like most ice dance threads) turning into 'wuzrobbed' and 'such and such a team was clearly better' or 'so and so had the least innovative choreography/best expression/worst program' etc., it might be more insightful to back up your reasoning.

Way back in 2002, I was part of the "Sale and Pelletier were robbed!" team, until one poster patiently went through and explained, step by step (literally!) why B&S had the superior program. The poster explained what the (then) presentation score was about, and that it wasn't purely subjective. It was a lengthy explanation, but at the end, I had to begrudgingly admit that there things I had not appreciated about the two programs, and I reluctantly came to admit that my response had more to do with me liking Sale and Pelletier's program than actually being able to justify why it was superior.

This poster analysed literally every step. Ie "after starting pose, 3 cross-overs in a counter clockwise direction, then turn, change of hold position, counter, rocker...' etc. I didn't understand half of it, but it's the first time I really began to understand complex choreography.

So, prove to me why the Russians didn't deserve their silver medal - beyond saying that you hate the program, or the music doesn't mesh, or their lifts are clearly simpler. I'm not saying I think they should have medaled (although in ice dance, as always speed is king, and C&B were noticeably slower), but people need to look beyond the costumes, music, and Captain-Obvious things like twizzles and unison, and break down the entire program to be able to see why some programs and some skaters are superior.

For example, look how Patrick Chan rides the blade and generates speed and generates speed vs. Nathan Chen. Or the difference between twizzles and loops, or ice coverage and pattern size. That sort of thing.

Otherwise, this will just continue to be like almost all other dance threads, where people vociferously defend their favourite teams but nobody ends up the wiser.

Anyhoo, just an idea.

 

[discodisco]

I'm not so sure. Maybe not, but the judging was also pretty harsh (for some) while not for others...typical

Carol Lane should be fired. The Canadians' programs were weak. Both should have been trashed. And the neon orange costumes shouted: "We are desperate and need mandarin orange costumes to be noticed". If anything, they made people look at their programs too closely and see the deficiencies. An updated version of Vincent would have been great to see.

Personally, I think the weakness was in the cover of The Long and Winding Road. The original was boring, and this version, while nice to listen to, didn't have anything verve until the instrumental section. If you took out the lyrics, the first 2 minutes or more was just muzak, based on a few chords. Needed to be something epic OR something pretty. It was neither.

 

[discodisco]

S/K had the worse lifts of all the skaters. Easier and not all that well executed and since lifts are a big part of the score they should not have been anywhere near the podium. And the PCS were a joke!! It should have been P/C of course then H/D and then C/B. What the #^@^#*# was on the judges minds? That silver was a gift but for what I don't know.

Why? Ie, prove why their lifts were poor, and why their PCS were a joke. I'm not saying I agree or disagree. But was it their carriage? Use of the blade? Depth of edges? Lack of speed? What about position over the blade and generation of speed? Too much on the toe-picks? Were their twizzles real twizzles or more like loops?

I'm no ice dance expert, and I totally believe in politiking... but I'll admit I don't see the Russians as weak as everyone else does. They're super fast, and while Nikita's posture is poor, what specifically are the other weaknesses people are always talking about?

I'm interested in being enlightened, really

 

[yelyoh]

Super fast? Where you there? How could you tell? Comparing what I was actually able to see on my screen, their lifts were not as original as the other skaters nor did they appear to be especially challenging going into the lifts and exiting. Twizzles, edges, no better than anyone else's and yet deemed superior. Their composition was also uninventive which in my opinion should also effect the performance score. That's it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Why? Ie, prove why their lifts were poor, and why their PCS were a joke. I'm not saying I agree or disagree. But was it their carriage? Use of the blade? Depth of edges? Lack of speed? What about position over the blade and generation of speed? Too much on the toe-picks? Were their twizzles real twizzles or more like loops?

I'm no ice dance expert, and I totally believe in politiking... but I'll admit I don't see the Russians as weak as everyone else does. They're super fast, and while Nikita's posture is poor, what specifically are the other weaknesses people are always talking about?

I'm interested in being enlightened, really

Trying to find an example of S/K video from the Olympics (anyone have it from Twitter or anything? I can see it on CBC but it isn't available outside that) to break it down more (not that I actually really care to see their dance again compared to the rest of the top 5), but I remember seeing this opening lift and every time being like augh the entry always looks so clunky and awkward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drlP7g1yGTM (around the :54 mark)

Their Olympic FD I watched to see if they had cleaned up the entrance, and they hadn't.

S/K's fast section at the end is just completely purposeless other than showing energy and ending with a crescendo, but it totally has no relation or cohesion to the first 2/3 of the dance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drlP7g1yGTM (around the 3:50 mark). It is a pure cheesefest that lacks any sophistication and even the energy isn't all there (like Nikita's half-hearted butterfly). The IN is just so subpar, switching to classic Russian histrionics instead of anything authentic or drawn from the music.

This is different from say, Smart/Diaz's final end to their FD where they actually increase the intensity and do very difficult footwork to build to a final pose after pretty much lighting the ice on fire. THAT is a good example of having a high-intensity final minute, and an inspired end to that program.

The fact that H/D's first lift (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_iYqgnIKZU#t=1m2s - this example is from Nationals) and S/K's first lift got the same GOE scores from the judges is absolute insanity. If you have access to the actual FD video you should compare the two - there's no way in hell that even Nikita in his prime would have been able to execute that lift.

 

[moonvine]

Super fast? Where you there? How could you tell? Comparing what I was actually able to see on my screen, their lifts were not as original as the other skaters nor did they appear to be especially challenging going into the lifts and exiting. Twizzles, edges, no better than anyone else's and yet deemed superior. Their composition was also uninventive which in my opinion should also effect the performance score. That's it.

I don’t really understand the fast business. What if it’s a slow song?

 

[bramweld]

S/K had the worse lifts of all the skaters. Easier and not all that well executed and since lifts are a big part of the score they should not have been anywhere near the podium. And the PCS were a joke!! It should have been P/C of course then H/D and then C/B. What the #^@^#*# was on the judges minds? That silver was a gift but for what I don't know.

To ensure that they retire happy, fake news IDK.

I just know that H/D are the Silver medalists. Every aspect of that skate was better than what S/K did. I'm a little disturbed by that. I try not to re-watch it often to not upset myself.

 

[discodisco]

The IN is just so subpar, switching to classic Russian histrionics instead of anything authentic or drawn from the music.

Haha - love this. 'Classic Russian histrionics'. Perfect

 

[discodisco]

The fact that H/D's first lift (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_iYqgnIKZU#t=1m2s - this example is from Nationals) and S/K's first lift got the same GOE scores from the judges is absolute insanity. If you have access to the actual FD video you should compare the two - there's no way in hell that even Nikita in his prime would have been able to execute that lift.

Good example - thanks for providing it!