2023-24 Federation Cup Final

[katymay]

Just my very, VERY personal opinion but USA hasn't presented a wonderful skater since the Michelle Kwan/Sasha Cohen era, so not even worth mentioning.
A very distant 2nd place in level is from here Japan, but as you said above @Arwen17 now that they don't need to compete with Russians, they are the very best even if the seniors/juniors are very, very below to what we're watching this moment.

The truth is the Russian skaters made everyone else better. Having said that, I do believe Mao Shimada is competitive with the Russian girls.

 

[Skating91]

When you've got this many girls doing quads in Juniors, some of them will make it to Seniors with quads.
Japan and Korea don't have this many doing quads or really trying that hard. They've "relaxed" since the Russians are gone.
USA is doomed for the next 50 years probably.

The USA is a great skating nation but have reduced themselves to winning medals and manipulating the competition via courtrooms and the ISU congress.

There was an assumption I believe that a ban would 'clean up' Russian skating (whatever that means I'm not alluding to anything I have heard that phrase thrown around), the skaters would lose their motivation, eventually they revert to triples and doubles. But as we see it's not just Eteri skaters jumping quads they are doing it in all camps now. The Russian girls are simply better, better techniques, more competitive dynamic. The Russians are instead powering ahead into the future.

They're already talking about only 6 jump elements and repeating the same jump three times. It is a race to the bottom.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

Even tho USA is a joke for medals, they're always within the Top Ten. It's not like they're last place. They just can't get on the podium without Japan, Korea, and Russia missing from the competition. USA has become like Canada now. It's a "second class" system instead of "first class" like Japan/Korea/Russia, with Russia being "ultra class" league of its own at the moment because Japan/Korea don't feel the pressure to try harder right now because I think they could do better.

ADDED:
That is such a gorgeous purple dress

Yes. Podium for them is only if any of the JP ladies makes a devastating mistake (can happen to anyone).. or simply missing.
Yes, I think the potential here is amazing, you see in Kansai's Kinoshita Academy, Hamada Mie does beautiful work and she has VERY talented skaters there. Even at my home rink here at Tokyo with coaches who were present in past Olympics and/or ISU grand prix (my own coach included), some great talent practicing every day but then when you know you don't have very threatening competition (when the Russians were present) and what you do now wins you medals, it just makes you complacent, sadly. I agree that they can definitely push harder. Maybe they will, hopefully.

And yes, another lovely program even with the little mishap touch on the ice, beautiful purple dress.

These junior ladies are in an ultra class of their own, not even close to having somethign similar in any other federation.

 

[katymay]

Usually large arenas have an issue with soft ice, but the ice is still rock hard here, I can't see a single gouge.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

The USA is a great skating nation

*WAS*

have reduced themselves to winning medals and manipulating the competition via courtrooms and the ISU congress.

Wholeheartedly agree. The level of entitlement is incredible to compensate for the lack of skating quality (just see post Beijing Olympics developments).

 

[Arwen17]

The truth is the Russian skaters made everyone else better. Having said that, I do believe Mao Shimada is competitive with the Russian girls.

yeah Mao is great and she has a quad that she would do more often if she was up against Russians.
I also love Jia Shin even more.
3A has become much more common among the Japanese and Korean ladies as they fight for the top amongst themselves. But until Russians come back, they don't have any pressure to go for quads.
If someone can do a 3A, there's no reason they aren't capable of rotating a 4T or 4S. It's the same amount of rotation.

 

[Skating91]

I wonder whether the ban has actually fuelled competition in Russia especially among juniors?

If you go to a regional GP stage and there are multiple girls jumping quads, even girls like Petrova with no ultra-c skating at a high level (she would get much higher than 61 PCS at an international competition), maybe that simply fuels the girls to improve.

Whereas if they were going to a GP stage in Armenia and can win with three falls and they are watching competitors from small nations barely crack 100 in a free skate, maybe they develop a complacency?

 

[Skating91]

The level of these girls is so high Petrova with her brilliant skate will probably end up 11th.

 

[AlexBreeze]

I wonder whether the ban has actually fuelled competition in Russia especially among juniors?

It's not the ban but 2014 and 2018 Olympics. We will learn about the impact of the ban in a few generations.

 

[Arwen17]

I wonder whether the ban has actually fuelled competition in Russia especially among juniors?

If you go to a regional GP stage and there are multiple girls jumping quads, even girls like Petrova with no ultra-c skating at a high level (she would get much higher than 61 PCS at an international competition), maybe that simply fuels the girls to improve.

Whereas if they were going to a GP stage in Armenia and can win with three falls and they are watching competitors from small nations barely crack 100 in a free skate, maybe they develop a complacency?

Ironically, kind of. It forces them to compete with the best every day, for every competition, rather than going to international competitions that are easier. They have to fight for every medal, instead of just fighting for enough medals to get permission to go to international competitions.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

If someone can do a 3A, there's no reason they aren't capable of rotating a 4T or 4S. It's the same amount of rotation.

Do you skate? Sure, technically it's around the same amount of rotation (a bit more for the quads, honestly), but definitely not the same way to generate rotational speed and height.
Empirical data shows quite well that post-puberty, women seem to have a much easier time with 3As than with quads, so there's clearly a difference here.

Whereas if they were going to a GP stage in Armenia and can win with three falls and they are watching competitors from small nations barely crack 100 in a free skate, maybe they develop a complacency?

No. Because they first have to even be selected for an international competition...

 

[AlexBreeze]

Do you skate? Sure, technically it's around the same amount of rotation (a bit more for the quads, honestly), but definitely not the same way to generate rotational speed and height.

Former skater and current Team Mishin coach Vladislav Sezganov talked about 4A and quints in the same way. If the skater could do the 4A then quints too.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

There is a VERY big fandom for Russian skaters around here, many, many JP accounts posting in JP language completely dedicated to a single Russian skater on X, specials on local television on Russian skaters are common and Russian skaters when mentioned in conversation at the rink are considered *the* highest standard of figure skating. Highly admired.

But the reality is, they are not in the world's competitions, and no matter how much you admire or look up to something/someone, if you real life competitors are below you by nature, it might sadly lead to complacency.
Mao Shimada is amazing, but could be pushed WAY harder (would need to), if she had any competitor like the ones we're watching now.
3A is national pride since Midori Ito and the ladies seek it, but as someone said above, technically if one rotates a 3A consistently and successfully, any quad jump shouldn't be an issue. But yet not enough people push themselves to do it because no Russians present.

 

[Arwen17]

It's not the ban but 2014 and 2018 Olympics. We will learn about the impact of the ban in a few generations.

That's true. I worry about the number of super young kids going into the sport. There may be less because of the ban, or it may remain unchanged if they think the ban will be gone by the time they grow up.

Do you skate? Sure, technically it's around the same amount of rotation (a bit more for the quads, honestly), but definitely not the same way to generate rotational speed and height.
Empirical data shows quite well that post-puberty, women seem to have a much easier time with 3As than with quads, so there's clearly a difference here.


No. Because they first have to even be selected for an international competition...

Yes, I skate. I think it depends? Some skaters are really good at axel and others love their salchows or toe loops. Some skaters get their triple sal or triple toe before they get their double axel.
What's so special about 3A that it is easier than 4S or 4T? when 3T or 3S sometimes happen before 2A.

 

[icewhite]

It's not the ban but 2014 and 2018 Olympics. We will learn about the impact of the ban in a few generations.

Really appreciate how you're able to strictly talk skating and remain a voice of reason.

 

[Skatelife]

The USA is a great skating nation but have reduced themselves to winning medals and manipulating the competition via courtrooms and the ISU congress.

There was an assumption I believe that a ban would 'clean up' Russian skating (whatever that means I'm not alluding to anything I have heard that phrase thrown around), the skaters would lose their motivation, eventually they revert to triples and doubles. But as we see it's not just Eteri skaters jumping quads they are doing it in all camps now. The Russian girls are simply better, better techniques, more competitive dynamic. The Russians are instead powering ahead into the future.

They're already talking about only 6 jump elements and repeating the same jump three times. It is a race to the bottom.

They are becoming better but no only the girl, we just watched the boys.

 

[Skating91]

No. Because they first have to even be selected for an international competition...

That's right, but you have to be better for longer throughout a season to get medals skating only in Russia. Whereas previously you could have a bad day and still take silver or bronze at an international comp. Have a bad day here you go home last.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Former skater and current Team Mishin coach Vladislav Sezganov talked about 4A and quints in the same way.

That has nothing to do with whether everyone who can do a 3A is also capable of a quad (nor the other way around) - Even among men, there are many who can only do either a quad or a 3A, or are clearly much more comfortable with one of the options.

I'm not saying a quad is impossible post-puberty for a woman, but just that it seems to be a lot harder than a 3A - Just like we've only seen 2 men land a 4A.

 

[Skating91]

It's not the ban but 2014 and 2018 Olympics. We will learn about the impact of the ban in a few generations.

I'm talking about the ban having an immediate effect on motivation levels since it is so much harder to stand out in each competition. There are no gifts for a Russian skater. Of course with juniors they aren't directly affected they can't skate until they are 17 and many are thinking 2030 which is a lifetime away at their age, and they assume they will be let back in by then (probably not).

 

[katymay]

Another hits 200. Well done.