How so? Would you revise the scoring system so that Jason could medal?
2024 Worlds: Men's thoughts and comments
- Thread starter gsk8
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But I think that there is another consideration. A sport has to have rules. It has to have well-defined procedures for determining the winner. Fugure skating is a strange sport if it solemnly declares that the rules forbid backflips. but if you do one anyway, we'll just grin along with the audience and give you a bronze medal.
Sort of like hockey. Fighting is against the rules, but we hope you do it anyway. The crowd loves it.
I spoke to Jason after men's free ( saw him on the street and approached). He confirmed he is definitely coming back next year.
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I'll say something that will be dismissed by those who want to be dismissive as the words of a Jason fangirl (to which I happily admit) but here goes:
I am just as impressed by Jason as I am by Ilia.
Not because of artistry vs. jumps, whatever. Everyone knows where I will fall on that.
Rather, because Jason is doing something that no other skater is currently doing. Jason finished FIFTH at Worlds this year and FIFTH at Worlds last year. Fifth. International judges. International crowd.
He is 29 years old. He skates only shows, at US Nats, and this year, one low level comp. (Is Japan Open a show? a comp?)
Yet, his competetive mindset is so finely tuned, his athleticism so impressive, that he shows up at Worlds and finished higher than 35 skaters who were training and competing all year. As Tracy Wilson said, he is an outlier, carving his own path.
To me, that is the very definition of sport. Is it the same accomplishment as Ilia reeling off every known jump to man, and some that aren't? No, of course not
. But if others decide to "pull a Jason" at the end of their career, it may affect the skating world in its own way just as much.
I am just as impressed by Jason as I am by Ilia.
Not because of artistry vs. jumps, whatever. Everyone knows where I will fall on that.
Rather, because Jason is doing something that no other skater is currently doing. Jason finished FIFTH at Worlds this year and FIFTH at Worlds last year. Fifth. International judges. International crowd.
He is 29 years old. He skates only shows, at US Nats, and this year, one low level comp. (Is Japan Open a show? a comp?)
Yet, his competetive mindset is so finely tuned, his athleticism so impressive, that he shows up at Worlds and finished higher than 35 skaters who were training and competing all year. As Tracy Wilson said, he is an outlier, carving his own path.
To me, that is the very definition of sport. Is it the same accomplishment as Ilia reeling off every known jump to man, and some that aren't? No, of course not
. But if others decide to "pull a Jason" at the end of their career, it may affect the skating world in its own way just as much.
Mark Hanretty addressed that very issue on air and would disagree with you. And above all else - learn about PCS.
ISU Program Components
Nowhere in the above document will you see "congratulating the ice with the butt" as grounds for wiping out ISU criteria for scoring components.
Ever taken the MBTI? I'm an ENTJ. I require logic in a debate. I agree a sport needs rules. But what you posted afterwards does not logically follow. It's a personal value judgment.
The rules state that Adam receive a deduction of two points for performing an illegal movement at 2024 Worlds, just as the rules state that Shoma receive a deduction of two points at the 2017 GP Final for sliding off his blade, hitting the ground, and later on ending his program too late. Using your "logic" I should perhaps think less of Shoma's skating and question his Silver Medal for being tardy? I think not. All of us were scratching our heads trying to figure out why Shoma got a second deduction. Then Shoma later explained in an interview he screwed up.
The ISU list of deductions is merely just that - a list. It's objective and I like it that way. Did both men receive their proper deductions? Yes. In that list does it state I should pass value judgments on either one of them them after they receive their deductions? No.
By the way, you might be interested in the front page of ISU's Instagram:
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Some reading for those who read French or will bother using a translator..
Media is talking about the quad Axel and about Deanna's historic win but the title of the article and its focus is
Adam Siao Him Fa ' s crazy day... Which is in French La folle journée d Adam SHF... Which refers to ferris bueller's.day off.
ici.radio-canada.ca
Media is talking about the quad Axel and about Deanna's historic win but the title of the article and its focus is
Adam Siao Him Fa ' s crazy day... Which is in French La folle journée d Adam SHF... Which refers to ferris bueller's.day off.
La folle journée d’Adam Siao Him Fa
Le jeune patineur français a conquis la foule montréalaise avec une remontée époustouflante samedi lors du programme libre aux mondiaux de patinage artistique.
ici.radio-canada.ca
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Keegan Messing Backflips Into 2023 4CC Medal Ceremony
2023 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships Silver Medalist!Congrats Keegan!
www.youtube.com
Some reading for those who read French or will bother using a translator..
Media is talking about the quad Axel and about Deanna's historic win but the title of the article and its focus is
Adam Siao Him Fa ' s crazy day... Which is in French La folle journée d Adam SHF... Which refers to ferris bueller's.day off.
La folle journée d’Adam Siao Him Fa
Le jeune patineur français a conquis la foule montréalaise avec une remontée époustouflante samedi lors du programme libre aux mondiaux de patinage artistique.
Thanks for posting that.
"But the journey of Frenchman Adam Siao Him Fa is worthy of a film script."
I use Firefox so it automatically translates French to English. Man, the French can really eat their own! Then look at the 180-degree turn in the media after the FS.
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Is this a debate? I thought I was just giving my opinion. Which I defend by saying, "Of course this is my opinion. I wouldn't say it if it were not my opinion." My opinion remains that "figure skating is a strange sport"
Cool picture of Fa upside down. I have no axe to grind.By the way, you might be interested in the front page of ISU's Instagram:
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Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.
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Three amazing and historic feats.
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I love that. Do you know the French for "crazypants?"Some reading for those who read French or will bother using a translator..
Media is talking about the quad Axel and about Deanna's historic win but the title of the article and its focus is
Adam Siao Him Fa ' s crazy day... Which is in French La folle journée d Adam SHF... Which refers to ferris bueller's.day off.
La folle journée d’Adam Siao Him Fa
Le jeune patineur français a conquis la foule montréalaise avec une remontée époustouflante samedi lors du programme libre aux mondiaux de patinage artistique.
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When talking about someone I'd say simply fou or cinglé... Capoté might be used in Québec. Fêlé is probably my favorite.
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And I disagree with Hanretty and my understanding of PCS is just fine. Siao Him Fa’s presentation of his short program was very poor. The mistakes he made, to include, “congratulating the ice with his butt” were highly distracting and negatively affected the entire program. He was so off-axis on his last jump that the crowd gasped. The entire first half of his program was very messy (the second wasn’t that good either. But the step sequence was. I will give him that) and those mistakes were improperly reflected in the PCS. He nearly got the PCS that he gets when he’s clean, which is ridiculous.
Fortunately it's Mark calling the events. We all know Adam didn't do well in the SP, but what happened in the FS made ISU history - achieving the greatest leap to the podium from a short program ever. That story is worth 100 times the benefit to him in the long run, even better leading into the 2026 Olympics. People want to be inspired. And rising up from the ashes to begin anew after being left for dead, is a story that inspires others like no other.
I'm always debating whether the other person realizes it or not. It's just me. The only thing I find strange about skating is what the ISU does every year - changes the rules. Do you know what would happen if they did that nonsense in the NFL?
"So, we decided this year that a touchdown isn't worth 6 points, it's now worth 10." They just ruined all the data that could be used since the scores won't be able to be compared to any other year. I've never seen a sport like this. The people running it are nuts.
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Québécois media use to be quite intense back then. Albertville, 1992.
Pairs short program. Brasseur and Eisler are entering the competition with high hopes... They previously won silver at words... Isabelle fall on the 2axel. In the front page of the paper : A big photo of Isabelle sitting on the ice with this title in big letters.
LA CHUTE
They won the bronze medal nevertheless... but yeah... Thankfully, there was no social media back then. I still have this image engraved in my head because when I was a kid, I was a paper boy
and i delivered that photo to my entire run that morning... There was a lot of talk back then about how too much was indeed too much. The year after, they won Worlds.
The year after in 1994, it was Lillehammer... but then, they knew they couldn't win it... Pros were reinstated and Gordeeva Grinkov were heavy favourites... and if not them, Mishkutenok/Dmitriev would also be ahead of them.
They skated quite well if I recall properly but not well enough to get higher than another bronze... It was still better than Shishkova Naumov who finished 4th... so the media were quite delighted this time around and much more respectful.
Media nowadays in Québec tends to be quite supportive of olympic athletes... a bit less when it comes to the Habs
Interesting fact : Josée Picard was Brasseur and Eisler's coach. So 31 years ago, Josée trained Brasseur/Eisler to WC gold... and now, Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps. Talk about excellence and longevity...
However, In 2022, Julianne Séguin, who also trained under Josée and had retired due to severe concussions, published a book....and there were a lot of complaints about Picard being too demanding, not giving them enough time to rest or to heal properly from injuries as she is a champion maker etc... Picard resigned from some board of directors related to coaches with Patinage Québec (not too sure exactly what it was)... but she is still allowed to coach, and seeing the recent successes she's had, I guess retirement will come before her controversial training methods lead her to be excluded from the sport...
Sorry for the segue into pairs... you guys can go back on topic with men.. My point was just that the media here too were very harsh (maybe it's a French cultural thing) until enough was enough... I was surprised at how tame they were this time around.
Regarding Adam : why not speak French for the crowd at the gala ? His English was approximate and there were so many local kids at the gala.. it would have been very inspirational for them to hear what he had to say about his comeback.
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Some reading for those who read French or will bother using a translator..
Media is talking about the quad Axel and about Deanna's historic win but the title of the article and it's focus is
Adam Siao Him Fa ' s crazy day... Which is inf French La fille journée d Adam SHF... Which refers to ferris bueller's.day off.
La folle journée d’Adam Siao Him Fa
Le jeune patineur français a conquis la foule montréalaise avec une remontée époustouflante samedi lors du programme libre aux mondiaux de patinage artistique.
This was well worth the read. They are not kidding about the unflattering photos the French media used for Adam
But I had to laugh when they referred to l’analyste Alain Goldberg, qui n’est pas reconnu pour sa retenue/Alain Goldberg who is not known for his restraint.
(For those who may not know, Alain was the "excited French guy" you could hear during Mark Hanretty's commentary. The whole skating world is now aware that he is not known for his restraint)
I am also
as to why Adam did not speak French at the gala. His English is not on the level of Anthony Paradis, for example, (no reason it should be, just a comparison) and he was in a French speaking city.
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This was well worth the read. They are not kidding about the unflattering photos the French media used for Adam
But I had to laugh when they referred to l’analyste Alain Goldberg, qui n’est pas reconnu pour sa retenue/Alain Goldberg who is not known for his restraint.
(For those who may not know, Alain was the "excited French guy" you could hear during Mark Hanretty's commentary. The whole skating world is now aware that he is not known for his restraint)
I mentioned this in another thread but I could hear Mark when I watched the French CBC broadcast .. the difference is really that Goldberg gets very excited... Sometimes I worry my neighbours will freak out when I watch figure skating and he is the analyst.
I am also
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We waited 4 long years to get our chance to go to Montreal. It definitely did not disappoint. The men's event was epic!
ILIA -- I think my ears still hurt. Glad I had my ear plugs. I was worried for Ilia, because at practice, he seemed like he would bounce and test his foot / ankle, then talk to his father, repeat. Plus he had mentioned that he had an injury. (I think they're all injured by this time of year!). Anyway, with a Base Value like his, no one was going to beat that, especially with the kind of delivery he did! His 4A was so high off the ground that it was like a magic string must have pulled him up in the air! Unbelievable. Please Ilia, stay well! When he comes down on his landing leg, supposedly he lands with 800 pounds of pressure. Hurts me just thinking about it. I always worry about indestructible teenagers! So fun to witness the history-making event. The crowd went bonkers.
YUMA -- He is supported by a great team, between his father, Carolina, and Lori Nichol. I'm so happy to see they didn't rush him into adding a lot of quads right away and re-injuring him. His 4F was a beauty. He still seems a little bland to me on the ice, and I hope he can develop a little more personality.
ADAM -- Quite a come back. I'm a little annoyed about the back flip...I have been asking all season and hoping someone would explain the significance of the typewriter in his FS.
SHOMA -- I will remember his beautiful, seamless, sublime SP and probably won't rewatch the FS too many times. When he started out with a fall, a "q", and a 4-2 instead of a 4-3, I figured things weren't looking too good! Very happy he got a small medal for his SP. This was the 13th time I've seen him compete live, and I hadn't seen him off the podium since Worlds 2016, so it was a bit of a shock. I am hoping he will come back next year. LOVED his "Come Together" at the gala, and congratulations for being voted as one of the favorite gala programs.
JASON -- I STILL love his Impossible Dream program. I understand he has already committed to doing another season, which makes me very happy. Ah, those split jumps, catch foot spin. Now if I can just get him to stop stalking the 3A!
DENISS -- He is a sentimental favorite of mine. Enjoyed his new Lion King program. I love his speed and power and am glad he dropped the 4S in favor of going clean. Wish I had been able to attend the Meet & Greet his fans held with him Sunday. It sounded like fun.
KAO -- I've seen him live 3 times and each time am wondering what that blur was that just went by. Oh, it was Kao! Give him a speeding ticket! He is so young and I look forward to watching him grow. He needs to control his energy better. Seems with that speed the programs can start getting away from him. I felt sorry for him that he looked so discouraged in the K & C. 8th for his first Worlds isn't a bad showing!
For a few others -- I hope Junhwan Cha can come back with a renewed energy and free from injuries. Was amazed at Donovan's improvement in his jumps. I know his former coach, Gregorio, was heartbroken when he switched coaches, but I think it is already bringing results. I'm so puzzled about Roman. I can't quite decide if he really is serious about skating, although I know his season had a lot of odd mishaps. I think Camden is finding out how difficult it is to go to school and to skate at the same time.
Honorable mention to @4everchan for being incredibly helpful (and patient!) in answering the many questions we all asked him. It was so helpful to have someone who was able to tell us so much info about the Bell Centre, etc. I lost count of how many times you answered the practice ticket question! LOL. Thank you for your help. Much appreciated.
ILIA -- I think my ears still hurt. Glad I had my ear plugs. I was worried for Ilia, because at practice, he seemed like he would bounce and test his foot / ankle, then talk to his father, repeat. Plus he had mentioned that he had an injury. (I think they're all injured by this time of year!). Anyway, with a Base Value like his, no one was going to beat that, especially with the kind of delivery he did! His 4A was so high off the ground that it was like a magic string must have pulled him up in the air! Unbelievable. Please Ilia, stay well! When he comes down on his landing leg, supposedly he lands with 800 pounds of pressure. Hurts me just thinking about it. I always worry about indestructible teenagers! So fun to witness the history-making event. The crowd went bonkers.
YUMA -- He is supported by a great team, between his father, Carolina, and Lori Nichol. I'm so happy to see they didn't rush him into adding a lot of quads right away and re-injuring him. His 4F was a beauty. He still seems a little bland to me on the ice, and I hope he can develop a little more personality.
ADAM -- Quite a come back. I'm a little annoyed about the back flip...I have been asking all season and hoping someone would explain the significance of the typewriter in his FS.
SHOMA -- I will remember his beautiful, seamless, sublime SP and probably won't rewatch the FS too many times. When he started out with a fall, a "q", and a 4-2 instead of a 4-3, I figured things weren't looking too good! Very happy he got a small medal for his SP. This was the 13th time I've seen him compete live, and I hadn't seen him off the podium since Worlds 2016, so it was a bit of a shock. I am hoping he will come back next year. LOVED his "Come Together" at the gala, and congratulations for being voted as one of the favorite gala programs.
JASON -- I STILL love his Impossible Dream program. I understand he has already committed to doing another season, which makes me very happy. Ah, those split jumps, catch foot spin. Now if I can just get him to stop stalking the 3A!
DENISS -- He is a sentimental favorite of mine. Enjoyed his new Lion King program. I love his speed and power and am glad he dropped the 4S in favor of going clean. Wish I had been able to attend the Meet & Greet his fans held with him Sunday. It sounded like fun.
KAO -- I've seen him live 3 times and each time am wondering what that blur was that just went by. Oh, it was Kao! Give him a speeding ticket! He is so young and I look forward to watching him grow. He needs to control his energy better. Seems with that speed the programs can start getting away from him. I felt sorry for him that he looked so discouraged in the K & C. 8th for his first Worlds isn't a bad showing!
For a few others -- I hope Junhwan Cha can come back with a renewed energy and free from injuries. Was amazed at Donovan's improvement in his jumps. I know his former coach, Gregorio, was heartbroken when he switched coaches, but I think it is already bringing results. I'm so puzzled about Roman. I can't quite decide if he really is serious about skating, although I know his season had a lot of odd mishaps. I think Camden is finding out how difficult it is to go to school and to skate at the same time.
Honorable mention to @4everchan for being incredibly helpful (and patient!) in answering the many questions we all asked him. It was so helpful to have someone who was able to tell us so much info about the Bell Centre, etc. I lost count of how many times you answered the practice ticket question! LOL. Thank you for your help. Much appreciated.
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