Anyone thinking about leaving FS fandom?

[WeakAnkles]

Remember what I said about FS putting soap operas to shame in terms of entertainment and scandal?

I understated that. Immensely.

 

[Finley]

I don't really know where else to post this so I brought it here. I felt these words in my soul. I will watch the women's Olympic FS event for the last time for the sake of the athletes who gave everything they had to get there. And then never again. Not until the IOC fixes this.

I've accepted that corrupt judging, politicking from Federations will never go away. Nothing will ever be fair in a subjectively judged sport. There will always be cheating. There will always be abusive coaches, eating disorders and injuries. There will always be toxic fans and bullying. I can accept that there will always be monsters and sometimes they win.

I never thought it would be the IOC that would burn this sport to the ground for me.

From Charlie White -

To the 99% who fight and strive for the ideals of Olympic movement, we celebrate you.

To the women competing soon, not just against the pressure of expectation, but against the very system itself, we celebrate you. You're forced to carry too much, but you can do it.

All of our faith is now maintained by the will and perseverance of young people who've devoted their lives to a cause. And what do they get for their trouble? A confrontation with the lowest aspects of humanity; a world where the ends justify the means.

The constant abuse that our sport has endured is unforgiveable. Where is the leadership? Where is the integrity?? What exactly are we left with? Empty suits. Empty words. Empty promises. All of it resting atop a foundation of children's dreams. Just brutal.

IOC. WADA. You've got to get it right now or you've got nothing left.

https://twitter.com/CharlieaWhite/status/1493428359665233925

 

[RoundedBackCamel]

My thoughts are very well aligned with yours, as well as my longevity, though I might have a few years on you.
At the time of the Lake Placid Games, I was all for the USA chant, but the hockey players were amateurs. It was a special and unexpected moment. Gritty. But that chant has taken over in so many arenas and is used to drown out an opposing side. It's became virulent and aggressive.
Speaking of drowning out, the Sochi fans who were trying to drown out skaters' music so they couldn't hear it while skating their programs. Boorish, aggressive, unnecessary. So, I guess I hate the evolution of fandom. I have no wish to be at skating events any more. The intolerance makes me fearful.
There's no openness to others in that tactic, which is where we are right now.
On the other side, I also am fearful of fans projecting themselves onto the objects of their fandom, such that we see fans defining what specific skaters "need", "wish", "feel" even if they've never met them or have no personal knowledge. I would feel a lot more comfortable if the fans in question are aware they are confusing themselves with the objects of their admiration. Perhaps it's social media that has brought us to this. At any rate, the projections of fan fantasies onto skaters I find very troubling. It, too, lacks awareness and appreciation for "other".
IMO These two forces are combining right now into nationalistic fandom with fan assumptions that they know what's best for a skater. This opens the pathway to abuse, especially of abuse of young people, since they are in some ways blank slates as yet, and easy to project onto.

I won't be watching the remainder of the skating events of this Olympics. Really, I've had it, and it's been many decades that I've stuck with watching the sport.

On the question of the team competition, I wish there were more teams. For those nations that don't end up in the top 5 (and therefore allowed to move into the FS portion)... it's, like, the top 5 and everyone else. Supposing instead, there were more countries, and each country got to pick 3 disciplines, their choice. Strategy could be fun!
It would also be fun to have mixed groups, where maybe 3 skaters from a large geographical region formed a team. This would let some of the smaller federations get involved, too. Supposing, for instance, we had a Scandinavian team, or a Latin American team, or a Southeast Asian team not from the traditional powerhouses.

I love this post! Yes! Very much aligned! I remember trying to liken/rationalize the USA! chant (I was 18 at the time) to football/soccer fans in other countries. It didn’t sit well with me, but I wasn’t inured to the great story! I can name three of the players to this day. US eventually started sending the pros to the Games to compete with state-sponsored athletics, and then I was embarrassed by egos of the basketball “Dream Team.” Iirc they were humbled pretty quickly.

You are so right about the chant being abused. It’s sickening.

I had forgotten about the Sochi Games. That was terrible. I also remember a lot of hostility between Argentina and Brazil in Rio. (BTW, I’m also a tennis fan and I can’t stand the one-sided fans. I have controversial likes in that sport too, lol. Sure I l Iike Rafa and Fed, but can’t help but be charmed by Medvedev at the press conferences and I was the only person in my family who wanted Djok to win grand slam. But part of that is fans rooting against them. It was kind of expected at US Open back in the day as “oh that’s part of the New York ‘charm.’” But now it’s everywhere.)

I SO agree with you about fans’ entitlement. It’s scary! I keep a healthy distance, but I feel like I was too bummed about Kolyada being out (still feels fishy to me) and I had to check my own feelings.

And so agree about teams. I’ve found myself watching the little- known skaters from countries without big skating programs and enjoying it immensely.

We are six hours away from the short program, and I’m not sure I can watch. This HAS to be a day of reckoning. The age limit MUST be raised. And the rules NEED to followed. It is pathetic how a country can place its national pride and identity on the slim shoulders of a figure skater. (Don’t get me started about NBC coverage. I think they backed off some of their hype machine when people like Mikaela Shiffrin didn’t follow their narrative and they ended up filming her sitting in the snow for 20 minutes along with interminable commercials instead of the rest of the competition. It was abusive and intrusive. Media are part of the problem too.)

Anyway, rambling again. Thank you so much for expressing many of my thoughts way better than I did!

 

[TontoK]

I am. I think I'm done, after watching skating for over 30 years. I wrote a post about it in the Kamila thread and someone left a "laughing" emoji reaction. I'm tired of encountering ageism and sexism, and I'm not just talking about that thread. Sorry to say this, because I really have enjoyed this forum, but after catching covid last spring and almost dying from it, I have almost no patience anymore, and don't want to spend my time with doping apologists. If I didn't have respect for a lot of the posters here, I would just let go and post what I really feel, but as Eliza Doolittle said, I'm too lady-like to do so.

Please don't. We "old timers" have to stick around. We provide much-needed historical viewpoints.

I've watched every aspect of every Olympic competition since 1976, even the scant footage of figures that was provided on American TV.

I've been thrilled by Dorothy Hamill, John Curry, Irina Rodnina, Alexei Yagudin, Plushenko, Torvill and Dean, Brian Boitano, Davis and White, Virtue and Moir, Gordeeva and Grinkov... more than I can mention as they've lifted the spirits of the world with their Olympic performances,

I've been on my feet at the unexpected glory of Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Paul Wylie, Liz Manley, and many others as they won medals that nobody but themselves believed they could win.

I've felt the agony of Linda Fratiane, Brian Orser, Kurt Browning, Patrick Chan, Usova and Zhulin, and others... who came up just shy of the ultimate prize. But they lived to fight another day, and live a better life, and left the sport better because they were part of it.

I've marveled with pride at skaters who are just happy to be at the Olympics, a prize in itself. Just this week, who can forget Donovan Carillo and Nikolj Majorov and their obvious joy to skate on Olympic ice? In the face of unbelievable adversity, they made it!

Yes, it hurts that for the first time, I will not watch an Olympic event. I'll get over it, and I'm sure the participants won't miss me. But I must take a personal stand. I will not intentionally watch a dirty event.

But this, too, will pass. I'm already looking forward to the pairs event and Worlds. I hope you'll be watching, too.

 

[viennaskater]

I've marveled with pride at skaters who are just happy to be at the Olympics, a prize in itself. Just this week, who can forget Donovan Carillo and Nikolj Majorov and their obvious joy to skate on Olympic ice? In the face of unbelievable adversity, they made it!

It was a joy for me too to see those guys, but what sort of adversity did they face? I know it's been difficult for Donovan to train (using a shopping mall ice rink) but ... enlighten me!

 

[anonymoose_au]

It was a joy for me too to see those guys, but what sort of adversity did they face? I know it's been difficult for Donovan to train (using a shopping mall ice rink) but ... enlighten me!

Nikolaj was almost left at home by the rules of the Swedish Olympic Committee. They only wanted skaters who could finish in the top 5 (?). They used this to keep Nikolaj's older brother, Alexander, out of the 2018 Olympics even after he got a spot at Nebelhorn!

Fortunately, the Swedish Olympic Committee changed their mind - they also have a promising young athletes clause I think? So they let Nikolaj go based on that.

 

[decafjava]

Speaking of the skaters themselves, I noticed that Guillaume Cizeron's post waking up with his gold medal was liked by many skaters I follow including many Russians. Some fans have outright lied about some skaters unfollowing others or making their profiles private or whatever...

 

[viennaskater]

Nikolaj was almost left at home by the rules of the Swedish Olympic Committee. They only wanted skaters who could finish in the top 5 (?). They used this to keep Nikolaj's older brother, Alexander, out of the 2018 Olympics even after he got a spot at Nebelhorn!

Fortunately, the Swedish Olympic Committee changed their mind - they also have a promising young athletes clause I think? So they let Nikolaj go based on that.

Ah that I did not know about Nikolaj. I DID know about Alexander though, and was shocked that he did not go to 2018.

 

[lavender]

I've been a fan for 40 years. What might make me walk away is the emphasis on tech over pcs. The judging is the problem.
Jackie Wong put it so well on yesterday's episode of "Olympic Ice" (which is a fabulous show by the way). It's on Peacock.

I certainly can't explain it with the same expertise as Jackie, but I think when they took away the school figures is when the concentration on jumps started.
What happened to the "figure" in figure skating?
When did the judging change to awarding high pcs just because of high tech.
Why is the score ceiling limit for tech so much higher than the score ceiling limit for pcs?

Thank god for Jason Brown trying to keep what I consider real figure skating alive.
While I think Nathan's gold was well deserved, he is a prime example of super points for tech giving high pcs. Nathans pcs (imho) should not be near Jasons. I just don't get how the judges can see the same pcs, especially when it comes to flow, glide out of jumps, smoothness, transitions and complicated choreography in Jason and Nathan. To me, there is a world of difference.

It's so disheartening for me to see the quad become the main deal. It's "jump skating" not figure skating anymore.
And again, I just don't understand how the judging doesn't see this.

I had pretty much decided not to bother with the ladies event this olympics because the quad has just ruined the field in my opinion.
How horrible it is to so many of the ladies skaters to realize there is no road to the medals because of the quads. You could say they just didn't keep up with the sport which is moving forward .....?? But maybe the sport is moving forward too fast to the point it's become unfair.

The recent doping allegations have brought forward another troubling factor with ladies figure skating. Weight control and delay of puberty.
Perhaps they really do need to up the age limit in an attempt to keep this from happening.

Here is a link to Jackie Wong on "Olympic Ice. He starts at about 10 min. into it.

Unavailable In Your Region

www.peacocktv.com

Pretty much how I feel. I feel like I'm just more of a semi casual viewer now. I use to post year around but that has changed drastically.

 

[lariko]

I dunno, I looked at skating scores, and how the judges placed the skaters, and what surprised me that I didn’t see the obvious corruption. 8/9 judges put Valieva first. On the Sakomoto vs Sherbakova and Trusova vs Higuchi it was half and half. Same happened with the block of You, Liu and Hendrixx. What I see is judges trying to stay objective in a situation that sucks and they have preferences or opinions. To be honest, I feel that I had seen worse and more obvious block-judging in men’s.

 

[4everchan]

I haven't watched the women SP... will not watch the LP. I will watch the pairs, probably not live though. I cannot directly comment on the judging of the women's SPs but I think that the judges are sort of screwed though... The 3 ROC athletes have had generous PCS and GOES all year. Why would that be different suddenly? They cannot dare to reward other skaters who are cleaner in every sense of the word as their scores would probably be out of the ballpark and then be scrutinized. They are lucky I am not a judge. I would have asked to be dismissed of my functions. Forgive me but I am at my lowest point of my love/hate relationship with skating.

 

[Weathergal]

Please don't. We "old timers" have to stick around. We provide much-needed historical viewpoints.

I've watched every aspect of every Olympic competition since 1976, even the scant footage of figures that was provided on American TV.

I've been thrilled by Dorothy Hamill, John Curry, Irina Rodnina, Alexei Yagudin, Plushenko, Torvill and Dean, Brian Boitano, Davis and White, Virtue and Moir, Gordeeva and Grinkov... more than I can mention as they've lifted the spirits of the world with their Olympic performances,

I've been on my feet at the unexpected glory of Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Paul Wylie, Liz Manley, and many others as they won medals that nobody but themselves believed they could win.

I've felt the agony of Linda Fratiane, Brian Orser, Kurt Browning, Patrick Chan, Usova and Zhulin, and others... who came up just shy of the ultimate prize. But they lived to fight another day, and live a better life, and left the sport better because they were part of it.

I've marveled with pride at skaters who are just happy to be at the Olympics, a prize in itself. Just this week, who can forget Donovan Carillo and Nikolj Majorov and their obvious joy to skate on Olympic ice? In the face of unbelievable adversity, they made it!

Yes, it hurts that for the first time, I will not watch an Olympic event. I'll get over it, and I'm sure the participants won't miss me. But I must take a personal stand. I will not intentionally watch a dirty event.

But this, too, will pass. I'm already looking forward to the pairs event and Worlds. I hope you'll be watching, too.

 

[TT_Fin]

I haven't watched the women SP... will not watch the LP. I will watch the pairs, probably not live though. I cannot directly comment on the judging of the women's SPs but I think that the judges are sort of screwed though... The 3 ROC athletes have had generous PCS and GOES all year. Why would that be different suddenly? They cannot dare to reward other skaters who are cleaner in every sense of the word as their scores would probably be out of the ballpark and then be scrutinized. They are lucky I am not a judge. I would have asked to be dismissed of my functions. Forgive me but I am at my lowest point of my love/hate relationship with skating.

I have about same thoughts about ladies but I think I am going to watch the group where Loena and Wakaba skated. Pairs free I probably watch live, because it starts 13. on Saturday local time and pairs is my favourite. I have often before skipped the ladies in big competitions if I have no opportunity to watch live. I could have watched the last group live yesterday, but I did not want to. I was very excited when I heard EC will be in Finland 2023 and was obvious I am going to arrange my work so I can go. Now I am not sure at all, if I want to go. But i have time to think about it and change my mind.

 

[decafjava]

Now I changed my mind. I WILL stick around after watching some ice dance. I am still a fan of the Russian skaters but also others including my own country. I have my own thoughts about the scandal but will no longer participate in that as everyone is arguing without evidence following their own biases.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

I haven't watched the women SP... will not watch the LP. I will watch the pairs, probably not live though. I cannot directly comment on the judging of the women's SPs but I think that the judges are sort of screwed though... The 3 ROC athletes have had generous PCS and GOES all year. Why would that be different suddenly? They cannot dare to reward other skaters who are cleaner in every sense of the word as their scores would probably be out of the ballpark and then be scrutinized. They are lucky I am not a judge. I would have asked to be dismissed of my functions. Forgive me but I am at my lowest point of my love/hate relationship with skating.

Between now and Worlds, I should cleanse by reminiscing about Patrick. Has it really been FOUR YEARS?!?! Stick to that Fan Fest thread at least.

 

[radkat]

Yeah, after today I'm very much thinking about leaving the fandom lol, and particularly about not watching the women anymore. Growing up, as a girl, I always loved the ladies' discipline the most but at this point it just feels unethical to validate its existence even just by watching the spectacle unfold. Freaking dark and I don't see it getting better any time soon.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I waited a few hours after the Ladies FS to post this to see if I felt the same. And, I do.

Right now, yes.

What I witnessed at the end of the skating, both on the TV screen and on the computer screen, was horrible.

People need to remember that the person they are talking about could see what is being written about them. And I am not just talking about on social media - I am talking about on here too.

I know of two current skaters who regularly compete at international events that are members of the Golden Skate forum. One of them is a veteran skater who is retiring this season (there hasn't been an official announcement yet, but they have made no secret that this is their swansong year); and the other is a much younger skater currently competing at Novice level. Neither have posted anything publically, but both are regular visitors. And I know this because they have contacted me privately about things I have written about them.

With the older skater, I had written a post that was quite critical of them in relation to something that had happened, and they sent me a PM to explain that there was much more to the story than what we saw play out in public. With the younger skater, I had written a post about how their programme went at a competition, and they joined the forum because they were surprised and delighted that somebody had noticed them.

Skaters are human beings. They have feelings too. They get hurt when people say not nice things about them. And I think a lot of people have forgotten that during this current controversy.

Seeing those three children in pieces after the Free Skate today was heartbreaking. And yet there were still people laying into them. I don't condone doping, and I do think that there will be fallout from this. But taking pleasure out of the youngest falling apart under the intense pressure of being in the media spotlight. That's not right. And I don't think I can get past that easily.

I know the Pairs start tomorrow, and a couple of my kids are competing in it. But, I'm just not in the mood right now. (Not that I am ever in the mood for the Olympics!)

I'm sure I'll come around quickly enough, as I am too invested in a lot of lower ranked and Small Fed skaters. But, the atmosphere is just too toxic at the moment.

And people wonder why I don't like the Olympics...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[dorispulaski]

I know. I am ready for Ted Barton and next year's Junior Grand Prix, with all this Olympic drama over .

 

[cheerknithanson]

I agree Caro Liza. Anyone praising the downfall is scum. Sure, there are still questions if Kamila should have been allowed to skate, but it’s just SAD how she faltered. She’s only 15. And with everything happening in the past 8 days, my gosh, I don’t know how she was even able to skate. I hope it gets resolved and she can skate again in the future. I love figure skating and always will. I can’t wait for pairs. And see what the next Olympic cycle will bring. Maybe Ilia Malinin will be at the top or in the top 5 for men. Maybe we’ll see more ladies do quads (I know not everyone is a fan of that, but I like seeing if women can push the technical envelope) and there be no controversy. Another thing that keeps me going is me creating figure skating programs in my head. Even though the only thing I can do on the ice is skate around the rink.....lol. But having a cheerleading and dance background helps with music. Yes

 

[luvsasha]

I love skating and enjoy it, but the absolute batcrazy insanity of people's comments all over social media has greatly diminished my enjoyment of it. This week has been especially bad and yes, makes me want to leave. So watching skating? No. Fandom? Yes.

There seems to be such a lack of joy these days about ANYBODY and it's really disheartening. I don't think skating is dead at all.