Classical music that I'm surprised hasn't been used for skating?

[janetfan]

Tonichelle, I tend to agree. It comes off as condescending cronyism and renders debate irrelevant.

First off, you asked the question and all I did was answer it. Sorry if toni or others took it personally as it was not meant that way.

FYI, I hear constant criticism about 6,0 and the "old days" much of it from fans who only started watching skating a couple of years ago.

I don't complain about them - I discuss/argue with them because I enjoy their passion.

I never forget that many here say, " I see no difference bewteen 6,0 and CoP skating."
I know they don't because they didn't live through the era. Watching some clips on YouTube is great - but not the same as having watched some of the legends skate Live in their prime and having seen memorable competitions on TV as they infolded Live back in '68, 72, 76, 80, 84, 88, 92, 94, 98, 2002, and 2006.

I do tend to defend Scott because I remember how much he did for skating for so many years. To me he is not an old announcer to make fun of but a skater I saw win 4 WC's and an OGM.

And all I said was that Akiko's skating moved me and the other's didn't.
That is just my opinion and I understand that.

I love skating but not the way it is trending. If my opinions differ then it might be because I have watched skating longer. Through the era of school figures and after figures. Now after 6.0.

I think it would be pretty strange if I didn't see skating through a much different lens than much younger fans.

Pogue, you asked a question about Midori but didn't know she was so deficient in school figures. Was it really so "condescending for me to point it out to you?

 

[Tonichelle]

I know they don't because they didn't live through the era. Watching some clips on YouTube is great - but not the same as having watched some of the legends skate Live in their prime and having seen memorable competitions on TV as they infolded Live back in '68, 72, 76, 80, 84, 88, 92, 94, 98, 2002, and 2006.

so once again their opinion of not much has changed is negated because they weren't alive to watch Janet Lynn and the like. Right, that's not condescending at all.

Scott gets critisized because he was one of the experts calling for change in 2002, then he refused to even try to learn the new system just flat out calling it wrong before he even saw it go into effect. HE and Sandra were counting technical "points" in SLC and saying judges needed a better way to show what they were looking at. He got it in CoP... now he wants to know where it came from... DUH!

I am a huge fan of Scott the skater, and I wouldn't boot him off the commentary team for anything, but I will call him on the carpet for his boneheaded moments (which aren't as many as others would say). He did go back in 2002 and apologise for letting his personal bias get the better of him the night of the pairs LP. NBC tried to tone it down, Bob Costas trying to get Scott to backtrack was frustratingly hysterical, but Scott knew he'd crossed a line.

He still lets his personal bias in far more than others, but I prefer him to that of Dick Button (who's hypocrasy drives me nuts) or Peggy (who is/was scripted most of the time, and buckled under any argument Dick gave). Scott follow teh tone of those around him in the booth. NBC has always had a more negative/overly biased way of doing things, so it doesn't surprise me he sounds so different than when he was with Verne Lundquist at CBS.


Yes, I was born AFTER Scott won his gold... and YES I can't remember the night of the Battle of the Brians (though I have watched the tape)... YES I grew up during the golden era of skating when it was on every weekend with every cheesey pro program you can imagine...

and yes I like the CoP. It's not perfect, you're not getting that until you get rid of all subjective parts of teh sport - which would kill it all together, and it truly would be a jumping contest - I've been watching a lot of tapes from the 'golden era' up to right before CoP and there's just as many splatfests, wonky choreography ridden programs that made me go "huh" when they landed on the podium. In teh US... in the international competitions...

I love looking through rose colored glasses... Kurt and Scott never have a miscue in my world... but that's not what really happened.



if that makes me less than an "expert" or a "fan" or someone who doesn't just get to have their opinion because they don't have an AARP card, so be it. I wouldn't want to live in that kind of cranky kind of world anyway.

 

[janetfan]

so once again their opinion of not much has changed is negated because they weren't alive to watch Janet Lynn and the like. Right, that's not condescending at all.

Scott gets critisized because he was one of the experts calling for change in 2002, then he refused to even try to learn the new system just flat out calling it wrong before he even saw it go into effect. HE and Sandra were counting technical "points" in SLC and saying judges needed a better way to show what they were looking at. He got it in CoP... now he wants to know where it came from... DUH!

I am a huge fan of Scott the skater, and I wouldn't boot him off the commentary team for anything, but I will call him on the carpet for his boneheaded moments (which aren't as many as others would say). He did go back in 2002 and apologise for letting his personal bias get the better of him the night of the pairs LP. NBC tried to tone it down, Bob Costas trying to get Scott to backtrack was frustratingly hysterical, but Scott knew he'd crossed a line.

He still lets his personal bias in far more than others, but I prefer him to that of Dick Button (who's hypocrasy drives me nuts) or Peggy (who is/was scripted most of the time, and buckled under any argument Dick gave). Scott follow teh tone of those around him in the booth. NBC has always had a more negative/overly biased way of doing things, so it doesn't surprise me he sounds so different than when he was with Verne Lundquist at CBS.


Yes, I was born AFTER Scott won his gold... and YES I can't remember the night of the Battle of the Brians (though I have watched the tape)... YES I grew up during the golden era of skating when it was on every weekend with every cheesey pro program you can imagine...

and yes I like the CoP. It's not perfect, you're not getting that until you get rid of all subjective parts of teh sport - which would kill it all together, and it truly would be a jumping contest - I've been watching a lot of tapes from the 'golden era' up to right before CoP and there's just as many splatfests, wonky choreography ridden programs that made me go "huh" when they landed on the podium. In teh US... in the international competitions...

I love looking through rose colored glasses... Kurt and Scott never have a miscue in my world... but that's not what really happened.



if that makes me less than an "expert" or a "fan" or someone who doesn't just get to have their opinion because they don't have an AARP card, so be it. I wouldn't want to live in that kind of cranky kind of world anyway.

Thanks for your comments toni.

I never said your opinion or anyone else's didn't matter. I never said mine was better only different.

I really try and make it clear that I am a "fan" and not an expert.
I am amazed by some of the posts that come from gkelly and many others at GS.

It makes me happy when I hear about younger fans watching the "Battle of the Brians" on YouTube or showing interest in school figures.

I barely know a thing about figures from a technical point but have a good memory about some of the skaters who lived and died with them at competitions.

I always think Kristi will remain as one of my favorite skaters. She is the last Olympic Champion to have really grown up with figures and I think it shows in her skating. Maybe that is something I just imagine (rosey glasses).

 

[Olympia]

Toni, you bring up a good point about something that benefits both older fans and younger ones: now we can see tapes and YouTube clips and enjoy the experience of great skaters of another time--and of the present day, too! (Since I keep missing the Grand Prix stuff that's been televised.) You sound as if you've used it to study the entire body of skating pretty thoroughly. Very commendable.

To me, YouTube is an amazing time machine, especially for skating, though I even found some opera music recorded by Caruso from almost a hundred years ago--that gave me chills, I can tell you! On YouTube, even skaters one thinks one remembers can be a revelation: like Toller Cranston skating Tybalt's death scene in a televised production of Romeo and Juliet using Prokofiev's music, or Curry performing his long program in the 1976 Olympics. (These were probably the first skaters I followed seriously. Like you, I hopped the YouTube time machine to investigate Janet Lynn and Peggy Fleming.)

Several things strike me about skating: first, what you call a "lights-out" program can't easily be quantified, no matter how precise the CoP gets, and second, that kind of program is as rare as, say, a pink diamond anyway. And third, items one and two are perfectly fine! Skating is a competitive sport, and they're obligated to figure out a ranking system, even if all of us at one time or another wail that someone wuzrobbed. (Prime example: Stojko in 1994.) I'm happy to wait for the pink diamonds (while re-watching the existing ones on YouTube) and to enjoy the other good skating while I wait. For my money, it's still a better sport than whatever is in second place. Hope it flourishes today, tomorrow, and into the next century, when the center of skating excellence might be Paraguay or Malaysia--or, finally, Turkey. (Go, Tugba!)

Since I brought up the Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet, why isn't someone (or some pair) skating the Balcony Scene as a competitive program? Talk about torrid! It gives Ravel's Bolero a run for its money.

Here's Nureyev and Fonteyn dancing it. Watch or just listen--you'll be equally enthralled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oc_GvdFen0

 

[Nadine]

I've always wanted someone to skate to Fur Elise. I think it would make wonderful music for a short program. I made a montage to it once and thought it worked well. As far as I know no skaters have used it.

For your viewing pleasure, BravesSkateFan, I give you the lovely Josee Chouinard: ENJOY!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0fCHRoj0sw



ps: my favorite version of Josee skating to this haunting piece is not on youtube, but rather on my own personal skating tapes (which I am unable to transfer to youtube btw). It was exceptional, made me cry that first time. In it she's wearing a different dress & her skating was more as one with the music. Btw, this particular competition back then was broken up into 3 or 4 mini competitions that eventually concluded into ONE huge one (i.e. elimination rounds, like Wimbledon, lol).

 

[Wicked]

I would love to see someone skate to the Bach suites for solo cello. I think solo cello has been used as part of a program but never for an entire program. It seems that piano and maybe violin are the only solo instruments that can be skated to.

 

[gkelly]

I would love to see someone skate to the Bach suites for solo cello. I think solo cello has been used as part of a program but never for an entire program.

Not a competitition program, not even a skating show program, but try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g-uf81SUko

ETA:

Not Bach, and not completely solo cello, but here's a whole competitive long program:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bWLt0q5Qx0

 

[Tonichelle]

Toni, you bring up a good point about something that benefits both older fans and younger ones: now we can see tapes and YouTube clips and enjoy the experience of great skaters of another time--and of the present day, too! (Since I keep missing the Grand Prix stuff that's been televised.) You sound as if you've used it to study the entire body of skating pretty thoroughly. Very commendable.

actually I have quite a few skating tapes, I don't youtube to study... I have the "worlds greatest" tapes... and there are tape trades that I hold dear to get some of the good stuff...

and mainly I go from memory. I've followed the sport since 1989.

 

[Olympia]

I envy you, Toni! Most of the homemade tapes I have are ones I've made, from the days when I had no cable but just a rabbit-ears. Impressionist paintings have nothing on these hazy creations. To me, YouTube is a step up! I do have some of the commercial tapes, and they're great by comparison. But I am beholden to people with better collections than mine who put them on YouTube--including some of the performance programs, like that great Romeo and Juliet I mentioned earlier. The Boitano-Witt-Orser Carmen is probably somewhere out there, too.

But, as you say, memory is pretty grand, too. The neat thing for me is that if I get to see a skate again, I realize that my memory didn't do it justice. It's like the first time I heard an early Joan Baez recording after a hiatus of some years. The voice in my recollection was nothing compared to the once-in-a-century voice on the CD. The real thing can often be, as Mark Twain said, the difference between a lightning bug and lightning.

Since 1989? Just in time to get a front-row seat for Browning, Wylie, and Underhill/Martini. I call that good timing!

 

[Tonichelle]

I enjoyed Wylie, but the love of Browning came way later... I was "encouraged" by one of my family members to cheer only for the US team...

with the exception of Katia and Sergei

 

[Olympia]

Yay, Katia and Sergei! I think they were the exceptions on everyone's list. Watching them skate was and will forever be a delight. I will always believe that they contributed to the end of the Cold War.

Wicked, I was thinking of solo instruments that could carry a piece of music for skating. How about guitar? And also harp. They're both pretty richly textured. I think probably they'd work better for a short program or an exhibition, not a long program. (For one thing, the skater might not be able to hear the music over the cheers of the audience if things are going well!) But I like your idea of the Bach. Actually, Torvill and Dean skated to one of the Bach cello pieces--played by Yo-Yo Ma, as I recall, on a PBS program once.

Hey, what about organ? One of the Bach Fugues, maybe....

 

[bogie]

I had some spare time over the weekend, and watched some of the Regionals coverage on Ice Network. Imagine my surprise when an Intermediate lady (I think it was Southwesterns) began skating to Dvorak's Symphony No. 8! The 9th has been done to death, but the 8th is simply gorgeous, with lush strings and lyrical phrases in all the movements. I have been hoping someone would skate to this for years - now let's hope that a Senior may give it a try someday!

First Movement on Youtube

The other movements are also well worth hearing!

 

[Olympia]

I'm with you, Bogie! I love Dvorak's Eighth. How nice to hear that someone's using it. His Sixth is also something I'd love to see explored by skaters.

 

[Wicked]

Not a competitition program, not even a skating show program, but try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g-uf81SUko

ETA:

Not Bach, and not completely solo cello, but here's a whole competitive long program:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bWLt0q5Qx0

I'm at work right now and can't watch but I will watch these as soon as I get home. Thanks, Gkelly!

Wicked, I was thinking of solo instruments that could carry a piece of music for skating. How about guitar? And also harp. They're both pretty richly textured. I think probably they'd work better for a short program or an exhibition, not a long program. (For one thing, the skater might not be able to hear the music over the cheers of the audience if things are going well!) But I like your idea of the Bach. Actually, Torvill and Dean skated to one of the Bach cello pieces--played by Yo-Yo Ma, as I recall, on a PBS program once.

Hey, what about organ? One of the Bach Fugues, maybe....

You know, I thought of solo guitar but not harp. What piece for solo harp do you think would be good? I'm not familiar with harp music at all.

That PBS program you mentioned was a series about all 6 of Bach's cello suites. You better believe I watched that from start to finish. Torvill and Dean were lovely, which got me wondering why are cello based pieces so underused in competition.

 

[gkelly]

I'm at work right now and can't watch but I will watch these as soon as I get home. Thanks, Gkelly!

The first link was the Torvill & Dean piece that you're already familiar with.

The second is Jeff Buttle's 2003 long program.

You know, I thought of solo guitar but not harp. What piece for solo harp do you think would be good? I'm not familiar with harp music at all.

I'll let Olympia suggest pieces not yet skated to.

Here's Lucinda Ruh's 1999 LP to a harp concerto by Gliere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0fvU4wnp34

And of course Michelle Kwan's Lyra Angelica is legendary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI45Qm3YoDw

 

[janetfan]

Has anyone skated to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUsGh2xYYQg


I stumbled upon this clip with the composer of one of my favorite works playing it himself - so I posted this version.

For skaters the orchestral version would probably be better........

I picture Kristi skating to this.......or maybe Alissa or Mao.

 

[Olympia]

Man, I love it when this thread heats up! The Gliere harp concerto is a great idea. A few years ago, by the way, Moskvina used parts of Gliere's Concerto for Coloratura and Orchestra. I guess it was allowed because the singer didn't sing any words but just vocalized (ravishingly).

Also, there's a meltingly lovely harp piece by Gabriel Pierne, the Concertstück for Harp, here in two sections:

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy-i0k2JBXU
part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij0ZHeGX2VA&feature=related

As for solo harp: It's one of the few instruments that can carry an entire composition without accompaniment because you can play chords and harmony at the same time on it. Some harp pieces are transcriptions from piano pieces--for example, I've heard "Clair de Lune" on harp.

Something written for harp is Gabriel Faure's "Une Chatelaine en sa Tour" (A Chatelaine in Her Tower):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-svXP5Nqr8

For a more full-bodied sound, two other pieces with harp and small chamber ensemble, also French, are the Ravel "Introduction and Allegro":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHYKv5zNRHY

...and the Debussy "Danses Sacree et Profane":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpb99jXRqEw

By the way, here's the first movement (or part thereof) of one of the rare melodic, traditional symphonies from the twentieth century, Howard Hanson's Symphony No. 2, called "The Romantic."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGgznzG5Ygc&feature=related

 

[Wicked]

Has anyone skated to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUsGh2xYYQg


I stumbled upon this clip with the composer of one of my favorite works playing it himself - so I posted this version.

For skaters the orchestral version would probably be better........

I picture Kristi skating to this.......or maybe Alissa or Mao.

I love Fauré. But you know who I'd like to see skate to this? Johnny. And I want this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHhtSm5bfmM&annotation_id=annotation_884581&feature=iv for Stéphane. I'm sure they'll both get right on it!

Jeff Buttle skating to Elgar was glorious and that Lucinda Ruh program just amazing. Watching Lucinda Ruh and hearing Dick Button's commentary made me really, really miss him. I love the way he says, "marvelous."

 

[Olympia]

I just watched the Lucinda Ruh tape. Thanks, gkelly! She's such a phenomenal spinner. There's no one like her now, and maybe there hasn't been anyone ever. I used to watch her in pro competitions, where she could really concentrate on spins and other moves. I think that while her family lived in Japan, she trained with Nobuo Sato, Yuka's father, and she and Yuka became friends. She seems so nice. Apparently she's about 5 foot 9, which must have added to her difficulty with jumps.

I gather she's now a spin coach. Who better?

And the Gliere harp concerto suits her perfectly.

 

[Nadine]

For your viewing pleasure, BravesSkateFan, I give you the lovely Josee Chouinard: ENJOY!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0fCHRoj0sw



ps: my favorite version of Josee skating to this haunting piece is not on youtube, but rather on my own personal skating tapes (which I am unable to transfer to youtube btw). It was exceptional, made me cry that first time. In it she's wearing a different dress & her skating was more as one with the music. Btw, this particular competition back then was broken up into 3 or 4 mini competitions that eventually concluded into ONE huge one (i.e. elimination rounds, like Wimbledon, lol).

Oops, meant to add the always lovely Rosalynn Sumners, as she skated to Fur Elise at said competition back in 1996.

Rosalynn truly embodied the character of the program, from the dress, french braid, to the very tips of her fingers to the expression & demeanor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHX6aJBh3Vs

IMHO Rosalynn was a much better professional skater than competitive one. All her programs were a joy to watch! She could do anything ~ from Beethoven to Carol Channing ~ her "Hello Dolly" is one of my favs!

If only she hadn't missed that one jump in her 1984 Olympic LP, because in my humble opinion she has always been a better skater than Katarina Witt (though I admire Katarina's tenacity & mental toughness), Rosalynn had the better figure for skating. Katarina's aesthetic line has always been unpleasing to me; the short arms & big boobs do not make for a great line. Still, I got to hand it to her ~ Katarina had "the look", the mental toughness, the drama, and the confidence! No wonder she's a two-time Olympic Champion!:thumbsup: