I think so too. But Igor want see them and Davice-White in leder not in Vancuver, but in 2014 OG. Only coach can distrub ti this team take ther medals at high level (i remebering brilliant Jamie Silverstiein in 1999-2000 - she had a greate talent, much more, then Tanith, but Igor prefer Tanith and Ben....)
Davis and White
- Thread starter dutchherder
- Start date
I forget about NHK and TEB - at NHK all teams have higher marks, than at TEB - i mean overall level . In men competition they have marks near to record level. It was last GP competitions - maybe judges was very relaxing
When you see Cup Russia resukts and TEB you wll see, that Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE had 159.77 overall result, and in Russia - 149.53 - 10 poins!
Tessa and Scott have one advantage - if Debruel-Luazon will stop there skating in next season - they will team number one in there country. And they have more texture
When you see Cup Russia resukts and TEB you wll see, that Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE had 159.77 overall result, and in Russia - 149.53 - 10 poins! Tessa and Scott have one advantage - if Debruel-Luazon will stop there skating in next season - they will team number one in there country. And they have more texture
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Its very sad...We never can say, what can happened in our life in future.... I want to beleave, that Maril and Charlt and Tessa with Scott all will have a good future in FS
Remember though that V/M's free dance skate might have been lowballed at TEB since they did not skate out of the final flight for the FD. Yes it is possible to move up with COP but judges will still hold some marks back in the earlier flights.
Another factor was that the TEB scoring in dance was rather low. Check the difference in scores between SA and TEB for Denkova/S.
BTW , I thought D/W's OD score at Skate Canada was low for similar reasons. They did have a low CD score there.
I like both V/M and D/W. These two teams have always been close at the junior level and so far it continues at senior level. Remember that D/W has beaten V/M on the technical score at times both in juniors and seniors when they have competed against each other. V/M comes out ahead mainly on the PCS scores.
So right now the judges prefer D/W's technique but V/M's presentation. It will be interesting to see how these couples develop.
D/W got lowballed in Canada and V/M got WAY overscored. The TEB scoring for V/M was much closer to reality than SC was.
I will agree that the JAPANESE got way overscored at NHK, but I didn't see that spreading down to the non-Japanese skaters. Gregory/Petukhov got much lower scores than they got at Skate America (which was on home ice and therefore overscored), or possibly they were underscored a bit and Khokhlova/Novitski overscored, by dint of having three judges from former SSRs on the Ice Dance panel. The SSR judges sure weren't out to promote US skaters.
If you check my post #19 above, you will see that the judges scored D/W higher in both TES and PCS, comparing the OD and FD scores from TEB and NHK.
Just because V/M regularly beat D/W in Juniors doesn't mean that has to continue to happen in Seniors. Remember that last season, Charlie was coming off a year where he was out of action with a broken leg.
I will agree that the JAPANESE got way overscored at NHK, but I didn't see that spreading down to the non-Japanese skaters. Gregory/Petukhov got much lower scores than they got at Skate America (which was on home ice and therefore overscored), or possibly they were underscored a bit and Khokhlova/Novitski overscored, by dint of having three judges from former SSRs on the Ice Dance panel. The SSR judges sure weren't out to promote US skaters.
If you check my post #19 above, you will see that the judges scored D/W higher in both TES and PCS, comparing the OD and FD scores from TEB and NHK.
Just because V/M regularly beat D/W in Juniors doesn't mean that has to continue to happen in Seniors. Remember that last season, Charlie was coming off a year where he was out of action with a broken leg.
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Davis/White fell in the CD at Skate Canada, and were eighth going into the OD. However, because of the way the groups are mixed for the OD, they skated second to last in the OD. They beat V/M on TES, but were few points below V/M's PCS in the tango. (In my opinion, V/M skated the best tango of the competition.)
V/M won silver because Faiella/Scali fell in the OD; F/S edged out V/M in the FD.
My comparisons of D/W and V/M are based on competitions where they competed against each other both at junior and senior level. Consistently ( even at Skate Canada OD where V/M had home ice advantage), D/W has had the higher technical score and V/M the higher presentation.
It is entirely possible that D/W can beat V/M. I also did say in my first post that D/W was lowballed in the OD in Skate Canada ( mainly due to the low CD score they got at SC)
The proper score for V/M 's FD is probably somewhere between SC's score ( which I agree was inflated) and TEB's score. I still say that TEB was scored fairly low compared to other ice dance events this year due to the overall lowness of scores. As well V/M did not skate in the final flight for the FD ( due to a poorly skated OD) which would also have a lowering effect on the score ( no matter how well they skated).
BTW I don't like comparing scores from different competitions directly because having different callers and judges does affect the scores ( even though in theory it should not). Although at times it is the only thing we can judge by.
Given all this information, it is clear that these two couples at this moment will be close in the marks and either couple could come out ahead the next time they meet.
I just enjoy watching these 2 young couples with so much talent.
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Agreed , but the fact that D/W were eighth going into the OD would have created a negative bias in the judges's minds and they can use the PCS to show that bias.
Not saying that D/W deserved to beat V/M in the tango, but clearly their PCS marks were low for that segment.
Guys, i think, that D/W had better qualitaty of technik elements, but there overall skating qualitaty is less, than Tessa and Scott have, Tessa and Scott have better lines, musicality and expression. And they look more preferable like dance team - D/W are shoter and have junior skating. But when i saw Tessa in this yaer i cant beleive, thart she is 17. I think, that difference between them - like between Denkova/Staviisky and Navka-Kostomarov - both teams was on higherst level.. And Tessa and Scott have very good technik too
It's a matter of taste and opinion. I do not think D/W are more juniorish or lower in quality than V/M and the judges' marks agree with me. As for D/W being "shorter", I think not. According to the USFS/Skate Canada bios, Charlie White is 5'9" / Meryl Davis 5'2", while Scott Moir is 5'6" / Tessa Virtue 5'2". Charlie is a LOT taller than Scott.
When it comes to talent and potential, they are essentially equal at this point and only time will tell which one will move ahead.
When it comes to talent and potential, they are essentially equal at this point and only time will tell which one will move ahead.
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- Joined
- Mar 28, 2004
Since when have D&W overtaken M&Z? Excuse me, but that won't be decided until US NATIONALS in January.
Also, we really won't know until 4CCs or Worlds if D&W will overtake V&M. It hasn't happened before so I don't know why it would happen this season.
What you failed to post is that V&M fell in the OD at TEB and had a botched dance spin that cost them GOE and 2 levels. Also, don't you remember that you're not supposed to compare scores between competitions when depth of fields and judging panels are different.
V&M placed a very respectable 4th at TEB in a VERY tough field, whereas D&W finished 4th at NHK in a weak field.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2004
Again I ask, why are you comparing scores between competitions? Different technical callers, different judging panels. It's completely irrelevant and pointless to compare scores between competitions. Talk to us again after WORLDS when they'll be head to head at the same event.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2004
V&M's PCS score for the FD was only 3 marks lower at TEB than it was at SC. That is not WAY overscored, cmartel/chuckm.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2004
WRONG! Skate Canada's bio of V&M is out of date. Tessa Virtue is 5'4" and Scott Moir is 5'8" (if not taller). See http://www.virtue-moir.com/profile.htm
V&M are definitely taller than D&W. Proof?
http://www.ice-dance.com/davis-white/photos/06JW-office/ts-mc-igor.jpg
V&M are also leaner than D&W which gives the look of being taller on the ice.
I'm sorry, but while Scott and Charlie may be comparable in ability, you can not compare Tessa and Meryl. Tessa Virtue has pointed toes and extended free legs ALL of the time, while Meryl doesn't. Tessa also has better posture through her back.
171.92 54.12 88.29 V/M, Skate Canada
160.12 45.08 83.75 V/M, TEB
Unless I am mistaken, 88.29 - 83.75 is 4.54 points difference not 3 points, and in ice dance that is a huge gap. In fact, even 3 points is a significant difference.
Yes, V/M fell in the OD at TEB, but the fall should have cost them about 5 points. Their OD at SC was just as overscored as their FD.
Pictures can be deceiving. It is my understanding that Scott Moir has lifts in his boot heels.
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- Joined
- Mar 28, 2004
At SC, V&M gained 11.7 points total for their dance spin and diagonal step. At TEB, they gained 6.8 points. That's a 4.9 point difference lost right there plus a 1.00 deduction. Then you've got the fact that their PCS would have been dropped a bit for a fall. So they lost at least 6 points right there.
It will be interesting to see if Shpilband changes any of V&M's FD choreography to try and get all the levels up to Level 4.
So what? That doesn't change the fact that Tessa Virtue is a lot taller than Meryl Davis and that V&M have a much taller, leaner, longer-legged look on the ice than D&W. V&M also have better leg-line and extension than D&W. Like it or not, V&M are a taller team than D&W.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2004
If Dubreuil & Lauzon retire at the end of this season like some think, then V&M are Canada #1. Unless B&A retire, D&W will not be USA #1 for quite some time. This too (being Canada #1), will help V&M in the years leading up to 2010 and beyond. Canada team #1 will not lose to USA team #2 or #3.
D&L have said they want to stay in until 2010. All of the teams might as well be resigned to being placed below DomShabs anyway.
And excuse me, but a 5'6" skater with lifts in his skates is not taller with better lines than a 5'9" skater who is still growing. Charlie has long legs. Scott doesn't.
It's all a matter of opinion, and of taste. I prefer D/W, you prefer V/M.
And excuse me, but a 5'6" skater with lifts in his skates is not taller with better lines than a 5'9" skater who is still growing. Charlie has long legs. Scott doesn't.
It's all a matter of opinion, and of taste. I prefer D/W, you prefer V/M.
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