Did the ISU make an anti stuffie rule?

[el henry]

can we really have all we want?
Free streaming, scoreboxes that work properly (i know you don't want the scorebox but most people like them, especially the new fans), good judging, great programs and costumes (no einaudi experience and Poto please) ?

I bet that if backflips were allowed, it would bring more new fans than plushies

I realize every one else loves a tech box, I concede

I'm not saying I don't understand the issues, I do. It's just the cost-benefit analysis is different for me.

But I think we should all have our dream lists, and I like yours.

 

[yesterday]

Please forgive me for going off topic. But when I read the title "Let's knit again" it brought to mind a song of my youth: Let's twist again—https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxQZQ86jJHg.

Spoiler

Come on everybody grab your yarn
Ah, you're looking good
I'm gonna sing my song and you won't take long
We're gonna do the knits and it goes like this
Come on let's knit again like we did last winter
Yeah, let's knit again like we did last year
Do you remember when things were really hummin'?
Yeah, let's knit again, knittin' time is here
Knit 'n purl 'n left 'n right we go again
Oh baby make me know you love me so and then
Knit again like we did last winter
Come on knit again, like we did last year
(Knit, yow)
Who's that, flyin' up there?
Is it a bird? No
Is it a plane? No
Is it the knitter? Yeah
Yeah, knit again like we did last winter
Come on let's knit again, like we did last year
Do you remember when things were really hummin'?
Come on let's knit again, knittin' time is here
Knit 'n purl 'n left 'n right we go again
Oh baby make me know you love me so and then
Come on knit again like we did last winter
Girl, let's knit again, like we did last year
Come on knit again, knittin' time is here

^^
following this, another song came to my mind that should be twistable (eheheh) to another craft. It's about glass bead making.
(can you guess it? )

for those not familiar with the term, it's basically this:


and the new lyrics, enjoy:

Spoiler

They told him, "Don't you ever come with cheap beads"
"Don't wanna see this crap, you better disappear"
The fire's in their eyes and their words are really clear
So bead it, just bead it
You better run, you better do what you can
Don't wanna see cheap beads, don't be a quitter man
You wanna be crafty, better do what you can
So bead it, but you better be good
Just bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)
No one wants to be so beadless
Showin' how funky and fab is your beads
It doesn't matter who's needs it meets
Just bead it (bead it)
Just bead it (bead it)
Just bead it (bead it)
Just bead it (bead it, uh)
They're out to get beads, better make 'em while you can
Don't wanna be a cheater, wanna be a fan
You wanna stay on top, better do what you can
So bead it, just bead it
You have to show them that you're really not scared
You're playin' with the torch, this ain't no truth or dare
They'll find you, then they'll love you
Then they'll tell you it's fair
So bead it, but you better be good
Just bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)
No one wants to be so beadless
Showin' how funky and fab is your beads
It doesn't matter who's needs it meets
Just bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)
No one wants to be so beadless
Showin' how funky and fab is your beads
It doesn't matter who's needs it meets
Just bead it (bead it, bead it, bead it)
bead it (bead it, bead it)
bead it (bead it, bead it)
bead it (bead it, bead it)
bead it (bead it, bead it)
bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)
No one wants to be so beadless
Showin' how funky and fab is your beads
It doesn't matter who's needs it meets (who's needs)
Just bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)
No one wants to be so beadless (no one)
Showin' how funky and fab is your beads
It doesn't matter who's needs it meets
Just bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)
No one wants to be so beadless (oh, no)
Showin' how funky and fab is your beads
It doesn't matter who's needs it meets
Just bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)
No one wants to be so beadless
Showin' how funky and fab is your beads
It doesn't matter who's needs it meets
Just bead it (bead it), bead it (bead it)

(sorry for continued OT, but this thread went into so many directions that I feel it somehow fits)

 

[TallyT]

I very much doubt that clearing the number of stuffies currently being thrown figures greatly in the financial statements, you know... and the Japanese and other fans that threw the big rains? They, and the star(s) they were throwing them for, made the venues way way more money than they cost for that indulgence.

 

[4everchan]

I very much doubt that clearing the number of stuffies currently being thrown figures greatly in the financial statements, you know... and the Japanese and other fans that threw the big rains? They, and the star(s) they were throwing them for, made the venues way way more money than they cost for that indulgence.

It depends where. ACI for instance, very small venue... pretty much always busy, no matter who comes. Having a rain of plushies, requires staff, so there, it is an extra expense, an extra worry, extra logistics. It becomes quickly a burden on small venues. Anyways, as you say, if big venues in Japan want to spend that money because they can, they surely are welcome to do so. i have absolutely no issue with that, but if a smaller venue cannot or doesn't want to deal with that, it's their prerogative, and it really is because they even took the time to announce that throwing ANYTHING on the ice was strictly forbidden. Hate it or not, it's not for fans to decide what gets done at a competition.

 

[TallyT]

It depends where. ACI for instance, very small venue... pretty much always busy, no matter who comes. Having a rain of plushies, requires staff, so there, it is an extra expense, an extra worry, extra logistics. It becomes quickly a burden on small venues. Anyways, as you say, if big venues in Japan want to spend that money because they can, they surely are welcome to do so. i have absolutely no issue with that, but if a smaller venue cannot or doesn't want to deal with that, it's their prerogative, and it really is because they even took the time to announce that throwing ANYTHING on the ice was strictly forbidden. Hate it or not, it's not for fans to decide what gets done at a competition.

No one is saying it's not their prerogative? I doubt anyone refused to go to a competition because 'no stuffies!' But people are however allowed to be disappointed by, even dislike, officialdom's ukases, that's their prerogative. The idea does seem to be among officialdom that fans should shut up, put up and stop asking to have fun for their money.

(The Japanese haven't yet, asaik, relaxed the covid-driven rule on plushie banning but then they only relaxed the one on yelling and screaming last year. The pandemic changed a lot of things, this may be one of them.)

 

[4everchan]

No one is saying it's not their prerogative? I doubt anyone refused to go to a competition because 'no stuffies!' But people are however allowed to be disappointed by, even dislike, officialdom's ukases, that's their prerogative. The idea does seem to be among officialdom that fans should shut up, put up and stop asking to have fun for their money.

(The Japanese haven't yet, asaik, relaxed the covid-driven rule on plushie banning but then they only relaxed the one on yelling and screaming last year. The pandemic changed a lot of things, this may be one of them.)

Well, as a long time figure skating fan, I definitely have priorities other than plushies. There are tons of ways for fans to cheer on their faves that are less intrusive like flags and banners, both of which were in full display at ACI. YMMV

 

[TallyT]

Well, as a long time figure skating fan, I definitely have priorities other than plushies. There are tons of ways for fans to cheer on their faves that are less intrusive like flags and banners, both of which were in full display at ACI. YMMV

Some people like them. Their prerogative.

 

[4everchan]

Some people like them. Their prerogative.

yeah... you have said that before. Repeating it doesn't really make the point stronger, and in that sense, i have made my point and won't bother repeating it

 

[TallyT]

yeah... you have said that before. Repeating it doesn't really make the point stronger, and in that sense, i have made my point and won't bother repeating it

We do seem to be talking in a circle... I think it gets messy when fans disapprove of the ways other fans enjoy their passion, whether with good reason or not (been there, done that, it was years ago but oh god was it messy, I still wince at the memory).

Anyway, at least @moonvine has her answer and in less than 20 pages!

 

[throw_triple_flip]

My brother is a collector of stuffies, every kind from thrift shop rescues ("Never make eye contact with them," he says, "or you're lost") to pricey OOAK artist-made bears. He gets very indignant when he sees them thrown down from the stands onto the ice. Stuffy Abuse!

I was a bit like that at jumble sales as a kid.. any pocket money i had would go on second hand cuddly toys. Couldn't resist them. I slept under a mountain of the things.

 

[4everchan]

We do seem to be talking in a circle... I think it gets messy when fans disapprove of the ways other fans enjoy their passion, whether with good reason or not (been there, done that, it was years ago but oh god was it messy, I still wince at the memory).

Anyway, at least @moonvine has her answer and in less than 20 pages!

You know, i don't care personally how other fans enjoy or not their figure skating passion, just to clarify here. You do you . I am simply stating that I couldn't care less about plushies and sharing why that is. The points I have raised are more in line with explaining why some venues like ACI in Pierrefonds do not allow them.
I see quite the opposite here, some fans being upset because of that, though there are valid reasons why plushies can be a nuisance for event hosts. I guess some fans need more processing than others, because I think I did answer @moonvine that it was a venue's policy right in the first couple posts of this thread. Discussion is bound to happen of course as this is a figure skating forum bringing together a bunch of very different fans.

 

[moonvine]

It depends where. ACI for instance, very small venue... pretty much always busy, no matter who comes. Having a rain of plushies, requires staff, so there, it is an extra expense, an extra worry, extra logistics. It becomes quickly a burden on small venues. Anyways, as you say, if big venues in Japan want to spend that money because they can, they surely are welcome to do so. i have absolutely no issue with that, but if a smaller venue cannot or doesn't want to deal with that, it's their prerogative, and it really is because they even took the time to announce that throwing ANYTHING on the ice was strictly forbidden. Hate it or not, it's not for fans to decide what gets done at a competition.

I don't know where y'all get your sweepers in Canada, but in the US they are volunteer children from local skating clubs. They have to try out for it, and it's a big deal to get selected.

 

[4everchan]

I don't know where y'all get your sweepers in Canada, but in the US they are volunteer children from local skating clubs. They have to try out for it, and it's a big deal to get selected.

Of course. But who coordinates them ? Another volunteer? And who coordinates volunteers? I do event organizing and managing volunteers is not easy and not free. The venue's organizers do not want plushies. Just a question, if you had to pick, what would you prefer, that plushies are allowed or that livestreaming is available? I am not saying that these are necessarily inter-related, but trust me, nothing is free.
BTW : nobody mentioned this but in the past ACI events, the victory ceremony wasn't on the ice. It was done in the atrium upstairs. Now, I am sure that some people liked the ceremony to be in the atrium better because fans could talk to skaters afterwards... and I bet that some fans, especially those streaming preferred to have it on the ice. All these decisions have pros and cons. I am sorry that for you and some fans here, plushies are a plus but I am presenting another side of the figure skating fandom. I find them absolutely wasteful and dangerous.

 

[moonvine]

Of course. But who coordinates them ? Another volunteer? And who coordinates volunteers? I do event organizing and managing volunteers is not easy and not free. The venue's organizers do not want plushies. Just a question, if you had to pick, what would you prefer, that plushies are allowed or that livestreaming is available? I am not saying that these are necessarily inter-related, but trust me, nothing is free.
BTW : nobody mentioned this but in the past ACI events, the victory ceremony wasn't on the ice. It was done in the atrium upstairs. Now, I am sure that some people liked the ceremony to be in the atrium better because fans could talk to skaters afterwards... and I bet that some fans, especially those streaming preferred to have it on the ice. All these decisions have pros and cons. I am sorry that for you and some fans here, plushies are a plus but I am presenting another side of the figure skating fandom. I find them absolutely wasteful and dangerous.

I don't care where they have the victory ceremony. If I had to pick of course I would pick streaming. It would make me less likely to attend in person though. I have had to organize and manage volunteers and no it isn't easy, it is a super big pain. But there is no money so some volunteer, typically myself, has to herd the volunteers. Even though the organizing isn't free, I believe some skating events would not take place without volunteers. That's why they give bennies to volunteers such as free parking, volunteer lounge, food, free tickets & etc (all benefits not available at all comps)

 

[Arriba627]

Well, as a long time figure skating fan, I definitely have priorities other than plushies. There are tons of ways for fans to cheer on their faves that are less intrusive like flags and banners, both of which were in full display at ACI. YMMV

The boxes for skaters' gifts worked out great at last year's Skate Canada. No disruption. Just a chance to give my favorite a gift and a card.

 

[4everchan]

I don't care where they have the victory ceremony. If I had to pick of course I would pick streaming. It would make me less likely to attend in person though. I have had to organize and manage volunteers and no it isn't easy, it is a super big pain. But there is no money so some volunteer, typically myself, has to herd the volunteers. Even though the organizing isn't free, I believe some skating events would not take place without volunteers. That's why they give bennies to volunteers such as free parking, volunteer lounge, food, free tickets & etc (all benefits not available at all comps)

exactly and all of this means $$$$

 

[gkelly]

Even though the organizing isn't free, I believe some skating events would not take place without volunteers. That's why they give bennies to volunteers such as free parking, volunteer lounge, food, free tickets & etc (all benefits not available at all comps)

As far as I know, all competitions rely on volunteers for some tasks.

Big important competitions will have paid staff involved in the organizing and actually running some aspects of the event, and of course the rink/arena staff are paid by the venue.

I volunteered at Worlds once. I got lunch and a vest to identify me as a volunteer, but that's all.

I was thinking that professional competitions, like the ones organized by Dick Button in the US through the 1990s, might have been primarily professional operations. But even so, I did volunteer at one of those also, so they did use some volunteers. (IIRC, my assignments allowed me to stand somewhere that I could watch the skating, but not exactly free tickets.)

Although a small handful of elite skaters are able to make good livings as eligible skaters, and others can at least cover their expenses through federation and Olympic committee funding, in general it's a money-losing pursuit even for most international competitors, let alone anyone below that level.

The federations need to earn money to fund their activities -- both the elite championships and the lower-level developmental events/activities that don't draw fans. And most of those activities, including the championships, rely heavily on volunteers. Including the officials.

So even though skating hasn't been a strictly "amateur" sport for over 30 years, it's probably reasonable to think of it in those terms than as a professional entertainment product.

 

[TontoK]

Considering the challenges figure skating faces, managing the collection of stuffies can't be in the Top 100 Problems.

It's like banning children's birthday cake candles to combat global warming. Whatever miniscule good might be achieved is completely offset by the happiness that is squashed.

Diminishing the fan experience (few as we are), even in a minor fashion, is just institutionally stupid.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I don't know where y'all get your sweepers in Canada, but in the US they are volunteer children from local skating clubs. They have to try out for it, and it's a big deal to get selected.

I don't know how it's done these days. I skate now at a social club that has a rink and two coaches who give private and group lessons, but isn't part of Skate Canada and has no test or competition program. When I was a kid, a group of little girls (always) was just told we were going to do the job if our club was holding an event. Since at that time only bouquets were thrown on the ice, and those only for the top competitors, we were called flower girls. Autre temps, autres moeuers.

 

[TallyT]

I don't care where they have the victory ceremony. If I had to pick of course I would pick streaming. It would make me less likely to attend in person though. I have had to organize and manage volunteers and no it isn't easy, it is a super big pain. But there is no money so some volunteer, typically myself, has to herd the volunteers. Even though the organizing isn't free, I believe some skating events would not take place without volunteers. That's why they give bennies to volunteers such as free parking, volunteer lounge, food, free tickets & etc (all benefits not available at all comps)

I was going to give this a bye but from genuine bafflement, can someone tell me how anyone in venue management would get the idea that the cost of organising volunteer sweepers for a now fairly small number of plushies somehow is a threat to paying for streams? Or what the two enormously disparate costs even have to do with each other???? As for stuffies being wasteful and dangerous, well so is figure skating by definition when you think about it. I'm a fan so I accept this, but the irony is pretty blatant.

(Please note, I have no intention, even if I ever get to a competition or show, of throwing the small number of precious skater souvenirs I have anywhere. at. all.)