As for Ladies' v. Women's... yeah... but I'm more bothered by the negative impacts of feminism on women. And men. We could use more "ladies" in the world these days, IMO.
Gosh, what a lovely example of liberal tolerance of other viewpoints. This thread is a hymn to feminist achievements but one small word of dissent is unbearable to you. Must absolutely everyone see things exactly the way you do?
I would appreciate your not putting opinions in my mouth, Dragonlady.
This thread began as a comment about the term "ladies" in skating. That is not an issue I get steamed up about. I think contemporary society's rejection of the idea of "ladies" and "gentlemen" is symptomatic of larger social changes. I don't like the coarsening of male-female relationships, the sacrifice of the idea of sexual difference, the default feminist suspicion of masculinity, the rise in female violence, the decline of marriage and rise of single-parenthood, the declining birth rate, or the normalization of prostitution and of abortion or child-murder, as earlier feminists quaintly called it (http://www.feministsforlife.org/history/foremoth.htm#sbanthony).
I am grateful for and have benefited from the battles fought by earlier feminists including the ones you mentioned, and there are places in the world where those battles are still being, or to be, fought. Feminism is a term/phenomenon/philosophy with various phases and many definitions, some of which I am more sympathetic to than others.
Actually I did grow up in the 60s and 70s and was enormously influenced by second-wave feminism (Germaine Greer was a big revelation in my teens). It wasn't until much later (at least one wave later) that I came to see feminism's shadow side. I don't see this as a simple moral question. There are gains and costs, and their ratio changes in different contexts and periods. But there are certainly reasons why the term feminism is so unpopular outside academic circles.
Gosh, what a lovely example of liberal tolerance of other viewpoints. This thread is a hymn to feminist achievements but one small word of dissent is unbearable to you. Must absolutely everyone see things exactly the way you do?
I would appreciate your not putting opinions in my mouth, Dragonlady.
This thread began as a comment about the term "ladies" in skating. That is not an issue I get steamed up about. I think contemporary society's rejection of the idea of "ladies" and "gentlemen" is symptomatic of larger social changes. I don't like the coarsening of male-female relationships, the sacrifice of the idea of sexual difference, the default feminist suspicion of masculinity, the rise in female violence, the decline of marriage and rise of single-parenthood, the declining birth rate, or the normalization of prostitution and of abortion or child-murder, as earlier feminists quaintly called it (http://www.feministsforlife.org/history/foremoth.htm#sbanthony).
I am grateful for and have benefited from the battles fought by earlier feminists including the ones you mentioned, and there are places in the world where those battles are still being, or to be, fought. Feminism is a term/phenomenon/philosophy with various phases and many definitions, some of which I am more sympathetic to than others.
Actually I did grow up in the 60s and 70s and was enormously influenced by second-wave feminism (Germaine Greer was a big revelation in my teens). It wasn't until much later (at least one wave later) that I came to see feminism's shadow side. I don't see this as a simple moral question. There are gains and costs, and their ratio changes in different contexts and periods. But there are certainly reasons why the term feminism is so unpopular outside academic circles.
Gosh, what a lovely example of liberal tolerance of other viewpoints. This thread is a hymn to feminist achievements but one small word of dissent is unbearable to you. Must absolutely everyone see things exactly the way you do?
I would appreciate your not putting opinions in my mouth, Dragonlady.
This thread began as a comment about the term "ladies" in skating. That is not an issue I get steamed up about. I think contemporary society's rejection of the idea of "ladies" and "gentlemen" is symptomatic of larger social changes. I don't like the coarsening of male-female relationships, the sacrifice of the idea of sexual difference, the default feminist suspicion of masculinity, the rise in female violence, the decline of marriage and rise of single-parenthood, the declining birth rate, or the normalization of prostitution and of abortion or child-murder, as earlier feminists quaintly called it (http://www.feministsforlife.org/history/foremoth.htm#sbanthony).
I am grateful for and have benefited from the battles fought by earlier feminists including the ones you mentioned, and there are places in the world where those battles are still being, or to be, fought. Feminism is a term/phenomenon/philosophy with various phases and many definitions, some of which I am more sympathetic to than others.
Actually I did grow up in the 60s and 70s and was enormously influenced by second-wave feminism (Germaine Greer was a big revelation in my teens). It wasn't until much later (at least one wave later) that I came to see feminism's shadow side. I don't see this as a simple moral question. There are gains and costs, and their ratio changes in different contexts and periods. But there are certainly reasons why the term feminism is so unpopular outside academic circles.
And I think that one of the consequences or the "shadow side" of this continuing fighting for feminism is one of the reasons contributed in the rising of homosexuality.
I'm sorry, but this image is too tempting to keep to myself. Does this imply that if women weren't allowed to hold certain jobs, Johnny Weir would be straight?
I don't mean to laugh at you, Bluebonnet. But it seems unlikely that there's a connection between feminism and any change in the incidence of homosexuality. I'm sure there was always the same percentage of gay men and women, but they kept quiet at the cost of their careers and sometimes their lives. In any case, I hope that men aren't that malleable, and that whatever their natural instincts are, they're not so easily transformed.
In fact it is, it is дама or леди in Russian for the English "lady". In Japanese I assume it is 婦人(fuijin=lady, adult female). But these words are not used in sports. The neutral 男子(males) and 女子(females) are used instead. As for "Ladies" in FS, it's all the matter of historical usage that took place much earlier than the American feminism showed up. The whole topic of this thread seems like an innocent trolling to me, or much ado about nothing.That's an interesting and important point, let's talk, about the fact that the distinction between "ladies" and "women" is not present in other languages.
And on men: the tendency is- the most discriminated person in the modern north american society is a white heterosexual 30yo male without special needs. To be fair, feminism is not the only reason of such an outcome.I'm more bothered by the negative impacts of feminism on women. And men.
There are certain people who were born with it. I won't deny them. But I believe that there are quite a lot of people, especially men, who choose to live certain life style because of their environment in which they grow up lead them or pushed them to.
You are both "right". Because nobody knows the clear answer on the question what causes sexual orientation. Too many ongoing researches, and most of them are based on too low numbers of subjects being researched. But that's not the point I am making here, as a straight female and specially for you. If someone tells me "You chose to be straight when you found out that the alternative exists". Fine, I did! Or, if someone tells me "You didn't choose it, you were born like that." Fine, I didn't! The point is- I don't care, because I see nothing shameful in what and who I am. You may try to do that too.How many people have to suffer and die before people realize being gay is NOT a choice.
The whole topic of this thread seems like an innocent trolling to me, or much ado about nothing.
The point is- I don't care, because I see nothing shameful in what and who I am. You may try to do that too.