Hawayek and Baker to Train in Montreal
- Thread starter ximianK
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Names?
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- Feb 25, 2006
The whole probable Nationals podium (if the Shibutanis retire) probably in one spot, exciting!
Chock & Bates asked to train in Montreal, according to this credible source, which I am just puzzled as to why they think it would be a good idea to train with direct rivals and competitors H/D. This just would not do them good, IMO.
https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/986983162453680128
I do not know, but I would not be surprised at all if Dubreuil turned them down, given her priority to H/D.
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- Jul 3, 2017
V/M did it too, and it worked, no?
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- Dec 22, 2010
Very different they are from different countries
Wow! Lotta info to digest here. I think Kaitlin and Jean-Luc needed a change. Their lifts need technical help with their height being so similiar. Kaitlin has made some technical strides over the last few years. Jean-Luc is a magnificent skater and really has a flare for ice dance. They need a coach to help them click as a couple on ice. Certainly Romeo and Juliet and Liebestraum showed signs that this is possible. I think Jean-Luc will flourish in the Montreal environment. I just wonder if Kaitlin will be overwhelmed with so many high level female dancers. I really hope she will use the opportunity to grow and develop internally rather than being intimidated by Gaby and Madison. Personally, I think Hubbell and Donahue have hit their peak and may last another 2 years. I also don't see Chock and Bates lasting much longer wherever they end up. I wonder if anyone is considering the Washington team. They have groomed so many good young ice dance teams in the last few years. We certainly haven't seen the full product as they are just emerging into seniors but that's a school that I think focuses on excellence. Can't wait for next season!
H/D have already stated that they are aiming for 2022 one second after coming off the PyeongChang ice.
I would understand why you'd think that about C/B but why H/D ? The coast seems clearer for them now. Because of their age maybe ? They were already miles better at Worlds (and a clear second).
H/B have some friends in Montreal, they'll definitely feel more comfortable right away. It was needed anyway, and almost predictable. I can't wait to see not their FD but their tango.
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- Jul 2, 2014
Different situation. V/M were going to Gadbois because their trusted mentors D/L were there. They went to Montreal sometime after Sochi but before P/C got there to arrange training in case they came back. They also got the choreography from 2 or 3 exhibitions from Gadbois adjacent choreographers.
Washington does a good job with the skaters that they groomed from childhood but they have not done anything good with anybody who was not there from the start. I am not sure why but their records with outsiders are not good at all.
I feel that Hubbell and Donahue found a unique niche with their sexy/steamy performances in the past couple years which lead to great success. But I think their appeal is one dimensional and not backed by exceptional technical skills or versatility. Their ages are also an issue although obviously skaters can compete into their 30s but injury, especially with the daring lifts ice dancers now perform, can be a risk. Obviously it's their call as to how long and far they take their career. I, too, look forward to seeing what Montreal can do with Kaitlin and Jean-Luc's tango and FD. I guess Carmelengo will focus on choreography and whatever teams he has left while Anjelika goes to Mother Russia to renew a calling. I hope on a personal level they can work this out.
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I doubt Chock and Bates are actively shopping for a new coach for a while yet. Maddy is recently out of surgery and just posted a photo of her on her new leg scooter.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh62TPOhRSH/?taken-by=chockolate02
She is not even walking yet.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh62TPOhRSH/?taken-by=chockolate02
She is not even walking yet.
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- Feb 25, 2006
Who are the Washington coaches?
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- Jan 9, 2017
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Alexei Kiliakov, Elena Novak, Dmitri Ilin
C/B are different only because they are American as is H/D, and the main distinction is that C/B are trying to leapfrog past H/D to be US champions (which is very unlikely but that is for another topic in another thread). Going to Montreal seems desperate but that is fine though if they want to. I am just puzzled as to why they would want to do that given H/D are there. But desperate people do desperate things. C/B want to beat H/D and so they wish to train with H/D's coaches to beat them. Seems very unlikely that Dubreuil will take them. I am not surprised that she turns them down.
BTW, TSL has generally been credible in the facts (beyond just rumours) of secrets/information of professional lives of skaters that they disclose. It was only through them that all learned of V/M's FD music even when many chose to wrongly disbelieve them and then later, P/C's music Moonlight Sonata. I believe what they announced, that C/B are asking to go to Montreal, was true.
It makes total sense that C/B would ask about training in Montreal now. Waiting another month would mean a definite no given the spaces filling up. H/B were smart to do it now rather than later. Now, other interested potential teams will be rejected because there is no more room to take new people. It is a business for both coaches and skaters. Coach shopping is a business and skaters have a business mindset. These skaters are not deluded nor are they naive. This is a results-oriented business. Otherwise, V/M would have stayed with Marina and won silver in Pyeongchang, H/D would have stayed with Pasquale and had been 2018 US bronze medalists, and etc. etc. H/B had their best results ever at the senior level with Camerlengo yet chose to leave anyways. Skaters are always thinking about their own interests and rightly so. No one is indebted to Igor/Pasquale/Marina/Washington forever.
I just do not get why C/B would want to go to Montreal, mainly, because of H/D there.
This post by blue_idealist, and subsequent post by Garry12 demonstrates all there is to know about the Washington school of ice dancing hype in this forum. This reminds me of that husband-wife coaching duo in Detroit that coached ice dancers Samuelson/Bates and how those two coaches were the greatest coaches for junior teams who could propel junior teams to the top of the world and that Samuelson/Bates were a great example of this, and etc. etc. etc.
I have no idea who the Washington coaches are and when I tried to research them I had trouble doing that since there was so little information about them or the supposed star teams that they have groomed or coached. Why would H/B or any up and coming team want to go there?
They coached (and are still coaching) the 2015/2016 and 2016/2017 season World junior champions - Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter and Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons. They were stars in juniors, but then they had their first senior season, and now they are just two young, talented teams with potential who finished 5th and 6th at US Nationals. Of course you would not know about them if you don't watch juniors or senior B competitions/GPs/anyone who is not in their country's world team.
But, when two of H/D, Shibutanis and C/B retire, it is very possible that one of those teams will be in that US top 3 along with Hawayek/Baker. Or even two, if the relocation to Montreal does not go as great as hoped for H/B and both M/C and Parsons manage to pass them. Not very likely, and it could also be Carreira/Ponomarenko (another talented US junior team who finished second at the last junior Worlds) who manage to pass H/B instead of the two previously mentioned teams, but still not impossible.
I started paying attention to juniors and also lower ranked senior teams some years ago for that reason. "Emerging" top teams almost never (or actually never) come out of nowhere. Including Papadakis/Cizeron who were junior GP Final and junior Worlds silver medalists in the 2012/2013 season and already looked like future stars.
Before putting a crown on the heads of the "Washington coaches", maybe it is better to see what results they produce at the senior level (you know, the level that actually counts) with their presumably Golden Skate-approved talented junior teams. After all, skaters don't decide to become competitive ice dancers only to compete at the Junior level and stagnate or drop off at the senior level.
Other than the Washington coaches, it may be best to see how the combination of skaters and Igor's coaching can produce results before putting crowns on the heads of Carreira/Ponomarenko. After all, what happened to that Detroit husband-wife coaching duo that Golden Skate raved of, the couple who coached Samuelson/Bates? I am sure that Samuelson/Bates had no intention of just being Junior prodigies and then doing badly at senior competitions. Same with Morgan Matthews who dropped off and was nowhere to be seen after her and her partner's Junior debut.
A team who has been brought up successfully in the junior rankings by a coach they've had since age 8 but continue to drop off and stagnate and lose at the senior level under the same coaches, is just wasting time. It may be hard to believe for some, but skaters actually dream of competing at senior World championships and Olympic Games, not some JGPF or Junior Worlds.
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