How will history view Sasha?

[lisadotdash]

I guess it depends on who is doing the remembering. The general public, if they remember her at all, will remember a very pretty and flexible skater who could not put it together when it counted. Sorry, but we live in a very competitive society and unfortunately people are known more for their losses than their successes. If people call Michelle Kwan a choker, they will call Sasha a choker x 100. The general public would have voted her off the island a long time ago.

Skating fans will remember Sasha for her line, technique and beautiful spins and spirals. They will feel badly that she never (at least up to now) could win the big ones.

I personally would never call Sasha an artist. Her presentation on the ice is amazing, but an artist is someone like Sandu, Browning, and Kwan (in her earlier years) who choose unique music and tried to interpret it for the audience. An artist (to me) does not continually incorporate the same moves into very overused music. An artist creates. Just my opinion.

IMO she is an artist if there ever was one. It seemed to me like Kwan had one expression on her face through the program all the way through the K&C unless she got a 6 and then she flailed her arms in those silly adolescent waves. Look at OJ Simpson. There are sports jocks who said there will never be a "running back, quarterback or whatever the tight end he was" was the best, there will never be anybody greater than OJ' yet he made himself famous w/ Hertz commercials running through the airport even before he did or did not do the deed he is most famous for so in that respect, it's a nonissue, one reason because she is so DARN PRETTY and that opens so many doors. She also interviews well without embarassing herself a la Weir. Poor little Texan, not so fortunate in that regard, and Yamaguchi, well she was guilty of being too Japanese at the very wrong time in USA economic history. Tanish Belbin, on the other hand, that girl could be a respected stateswoman some day. So, it's just such a non-issue what she will be famous for.

A little off topic but while I'm at it, I think Kimmie Meissner is going to have to think seriously about dropping Kimmie in favor of Kim if she wants to really grow up. Sorry but I look at everything.

 

[Mathman]

But if she really wants respect, she will have to be Kimberly.

Plus, Gayle Sayers was the best running back. :agree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

On Golden skate, I read that there are equal number of 'haters' of Sasha and Michelle. The 'haters' usually have nothing to contribute to the forum. Their messages do not have to be repeated.

The praising of Sasha, from what I read, is less than that of Michelle because Michelle has more fans in the United States than Sasha has. But Sasha has many many fans so she continues to be a very popular skater on GS.

The two will continue to be praised, debased, and defended until the time they disappear from the eligible scene. that's the way it is in Skateland.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

I would think that it should be much harder for Kwan fans to bash Sasha and for Cohen fans to bash Michelle, because many of the reasons applicable to Sasha also applied to MK in '02:

(1) Both were America's best hope for the OGM, against a Russian (MK in '02) and neither delivered as hoped, "losing the gold" by falling, but keeping a place on the podium by refusing to let the error ruin the rest of the program;

(2) Both made decisions that may (or may not) have contributed to disappointing results in major competitions;

(3) Both got upset by someone not favored to win;

(4) Both got a certain amount of media bashing, reduced only by the grace they both showed in handling defeat. and

(5) Both failed to win Worlds after the disappointing Olys.

I don't see how anyone can bash the one without opening the door to a flood of similar criticism for the other.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I would think that it should be much harder for Kwan fans to bash Sasha and for Cohen fans to bash Michelle, because many of the reasons applicable to Sasha also applied to MK in '02:

From reading many many posts, I have found a few Kwanfans who can not control the debasing of Sasha. Most Kwanfans add Sasha to their list of favorites (not exactly adoreher but enjoy her skating). Others definitely respect her. I find similar feelings with Sasa fans about Michelle.

(1) Both were America's best hope for the OGM, against a Russian (MK in '02) and neither delivered as hoped, "losing the gold" by falling, but keeping a place on the podium by refusing to let the error ruin the rest of the program;

But an American did win the OGM, just not the two favorites.

(2) Both made decisions that may (or may not) have contributed to disappointing results in major competitions;

(3) Both got upset by someone not favored to win;

(4) Both got a certain amount of media bashing, reduced only by the grace they both showed in handling defeat. and

(5) Both failed to win Worlds after the disappointing Olys.

I don't see how anyone can bash the one without opening the door to a flood of similar criticism for the other.

That was my point. It really isn't necessary to continue any kind of bashing. However, I do find the defending of a favorite a bit boring after a while. The competitions are over and in these last instances: Arakwawa and Meissner are the winners. Over and Out.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

To me, it's really not necessary to step in to "defend" a skater unless she is TRULY being dumped on by many posters. Plus, you always run the risk of being written off as a fan of that skater

 

[Dee4707]

I'd never seen anyone make Sasha look bad in a costume until Wagner. With the high turtleneck and low-hipped "tu tu" style feathered skirt, it made Sasha, who is naturally long-torsoed, look as if her five-foot frame was four-feet of head and torso and one foot of legs. And the choreography was as god-awful as I have ever seen.

Rgirl, I hope you know that costume was designed by Badgley Mischka. I agree it was not one of her best, especially the feathers floating and falling behind her.

Rgirl, thanks for your wonderful posts, I love reading them.

Dee

 

[#1Kerryfan]

I will always view Sasha as a graceful, strong skater who can do things others don't even try, and I hope you all do the same.

 

[azsk8fan]

A bit of reiteration on what other have so sagely pointed out:

For every-four-years watchers, Sasha won't be remembered at all. For twice-a-year watchers, she'll be remembered as having freakish flexibility.

As far as spirals - Nichole took them to a place they had not heretofore been. Michelle went a step further with a change of edge spiral. Sasha added uncommon flexibility. It is pretty much universally agreed that Nichole and Michelle created a thing of beauty. It isn't necessarily agreed that Sasha did the same. I've always found it to be more contortionist that pretty, but that's just me.

As far as skating with joy - Janet Lynn did that. Sasha did not. She will not be remembered for skating with joy.

All this hinges on whether or not she retires now from eligible competition. Then there is her post-eligible career.

There are no pro championships anymore. Perhaps, with a recent influx of recently retired from eligible skaters, these could be revived. If not, Sasha will certainly not have the opportunity to make her mark as a pro champion (like, for example, Elena Leonova and Andre Khvalko did as pro pairs - they had no eligible record).

As far as show skating, as time goes by, the skaters with the best basics are the ones who can do this, night after night, year after year. The jumps eventually fail them all, but the edging, the stroking and the connection with the audience last long. Sasha has thus far demonstrated none of these, at least not on the level with Yuka or Kurt or Kristi. So, I'm not a fortune teller, but I doubt she'll make her mark this way, either.

So much for that! Sorry Sasha, have a good life. Perhaps she will have another career that doesn't involve cameras or performance, out of the lime light, quietly working and finding her own personal success like the rest of us.

Linny

All I can add is AMEN - you've summed it up beautifully.

 

[azsk8fan]

I don't see how you can say that about Sasha,anyone who has seen her skate when she is really on...like her performance of Dark Eyes at the Olys and several other performances...can see she really loved what she was doing! You can't expect people to look over joyed when they don't do well.

As far as skating around just doing spirals etc...if it's an exhibition..isn't it HER decision what elements she does??If it were me and I didn't HAVE to jump and i just wanted to have fun,i wouldn't add jumps either.

I respectfully disagree. Janet Lynn showed her love of skating through-out her entire performance. Sasha only shows joy/happiness after the fact and only if she's performed well. During the course of Sasha's skate I have yet to see the pure love of skating come through. JMHO

 

[Tinika]

My two cents: Sasha always skates (or skated) with precision and grace, when she doesn't fall down. She loves to win---but not necessarily to skate. She doesn't skate for the joy of skating (like Michelle Kwan; sorry to compare, but there it is). I don't really see joy in her on the ice. I can admire her technique, but she has never touched me in the way that other skaters have.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

My two cents: Sasha always skates (or skated) with precision and grace, when she doesn't fall down. She loves to win---but not necessarily to skate. She doesn't skate for the joy of skating (like Michelle Kwan; sorry to compare, but there it is). I don't really see joy in her on the ice. I can admire her technique, but she has never touched me in the way that other skaters have.

This is interesting because last night while watching the replay of Worlds during Kimmie's interview, when asked why she felt she competed so well, she said "I love skating." and it got me to thinking... the majority of the true competitiors always start off with "I love skating" in the most sincere way & it shows.

I've heard Sasha say she loves a lot of things from food to performing to clothes but never skating (I don't hold the love of attention remark against her because I assume that's true of all skaters / athletes) ... I also think its interesting that she will say performing but not skating... I could be splitting hairs here, but then it is the off season and one must say engaged somehow...

 

[Lonewolf]

...I've heard Sasha say she loves a lot of things from food to performing to clothes but never skating (I don't hold the love of attention remark against her because I assume that's true of all skaters / athletes) ... I also think its interesting that she will say performing but not skating... I could be splitting hairs here, but then it is the off season and one must say engaged somehow...

Although, I think Sasha is a beautiful skater, I think you and Tinika have some interesting points - she loves to perform and skating is the medium of her choice.

 

[R.D.]

I think PERFORM is the key word here. not COMPETE. I think she does like skating. But I doubt she likes competing. Also, I get the feeling she's losing interest and would like to do something different. There doesn't appear to be that inherent love of skating that you see in MK or Irina when they skate. You can just tell they live for skating.

Could be wrong, though.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

There doesn't appear to be that inherent love of skating that you see in MK or Irina when they skate. You can just tell they live for skating.

Totally off topic, but I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of Michelle's & Irina's success (or lack thereof ) at the Olympics... They live to skate and the olympics is just too big in their heads... obsessions are not good things.

 

[R.D.]

Let me raise this quote by the thread subject again:

“Hopefully … a good impact,” she said, tearing up on the press conference podium. “Of course, I know I won't be remembered for winning a lot of championships but hopefully more than that, for the skating. I have learned it's about the journey, not about the destination, to enjoy each day. I'm still learning to be able to give it my all to get lost in the moment. I still haven't found that automatic robot to be able to pump up for performances. That's something I'm still searching for.”

Now, is it just me or did she REALLY want to be remembered for "winning a lot of championships"? Before you lay into me about reading too much into the comment, consider what she's said in the past. I think she might believe she'll make a bigger impact if she wins a big title (or several) than she would by just doing what she does now. Do you agree with that?

And also, the other part of the quote got me thinking. I really do believe that she's trying to figure out what to do in order to have that clean skate. I think she's trying many different methods. The latest may have been to tone down the warming up (?) and if that was a tactic by her (rather than just her being tired) it certainly backfired.

Also, is that "automatic robot" she's referring to...something that someone can teach you? I don't think so...I think it's one of those things that you either have or you don't. Now, even the best competitors rarely give the performance of their lives, but I think in Cohen's case it's all about just getting through the routine with one or so minor mistakes (or none). It's a lot of pressure to put on yourself, to want to be perfect. So I think this further cements my claim that she's not made to be a champion. In a skater's case, aside from seeing a shrink or something, it's really something that IMO has to come from within...no one can teach it to you.

Stepping back now...

 

[chuckm]

That Sasha is still looking for a magic bullet (to skating clean) says it all. She knows she has to skate clean to win, and really, for her, winning is what it is all about. She doesn't love to compete, she loves to win, and not skating clean keeps her from getting what she wants most: all those championships to be remembered by.

In short: she wants to be a legend like (you know who). And she knows now it's not going to happen, even with (you know who) no longer in the game, so yes, she is losing interest and she wants to go on to something else.

 

[R.D.]

That Sasha is still looking for a magic bullet (to skating clean) says it all. She knows she has to skate clean to win, and really, for her, winning is what it is all about. She doesn't love to compete, she loves to win, and not skating clean keeps her from getting what she wants most: all those championships to be remembered by.

I think you're onto something, but just to be fair: when you're constantly second, and are constantly in a position to win (and the only thing preventing you from winning is you not skating clean), wouldn't you feel the same way? The only step up from 2nd is 1st. It's easy for us to sit here and dream up possibilities and scenarios, but we can never know what's actually going on through the skater's mind. All our comments are simply conjectures.

 

[chuckm]

I think Sasha doesn't get "into the zone" in her FS at major competitions because she's too focused on winning, and that's what is her undoing.

She has done it (get in the zone) in the SP at Worlds 2004 and the Torino Olympics, and in the FS at a couple of cheesefests (2003 Campbell's and 2004 Marshall's) but never when it really counted.

Shizuka did it at 2004 Worlds and 2006 Olympics FSs, and Kwan has done it many, many times. Tara did it at 1998 Olympics, and so did Sarah, just once, at SLC.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's true about the zone. Her legendary Quali Round in Dortmund was the first time, I saw her as wanting to win - and she did in that Round.

The second time I saw her in the zone was at Torino Olys LP. After making two big boo boos, she picked herself up skated her best ever. However, she already knew she lost the gold so for the rest of the program she skated a terrific exhibition and garnered the silver - not bad with those boo boos.

If she could think about the LP in a competition as the opening night of a show, she might skate in that zone. Just a guess.

Joe