How will history view Sasha?

[krenseby]

Re: Nancy

I watched Nancy live on an exhibition sometime in 1993 and I enjoyed her performance... she had the speed, the jumps.. it was exciting... In all fairness, Nancy retained her skating ability far more than Oksana has in their post Olympic years. While Oksana gave up her triples and even had trouble with doubles, Nancy did some interesting exhibition programs and kept her triples.

I just want to say that I meet lots of casual fans at the rink who only skate around in a circle and the only thing they say about Sasha is that she is beautiful and rave about her spirals. I see hockey dads on the ice with their daughters who are taking figure skating lessons and when the girl did a spiral, dad told her to get her leg higher like that girl on TV. I see a lot of little girls who have been skating for a few years emulating Sasha's legless spin (ie the one where she lifted her leg), the I spin and Sasha's spiral (in addition to the horrible Butt spin).

In the end, Sasha will be remembered for her stretch and elegance. There are girls (and adults like myself) who are striving to achieve that look on the ice. There are skaters like Nancy Kerrigan who had that one good LP in the Olympics in 1994 and in spite of that, other than her costumes, no one was striving to skate like Nancy. In fact, the only thing that Nancy is remembered for is the whack, and not for anything that she has done on the ice.

While having a title is a memorable thing, I think a skater is even more memorable if they can influence the next generation.

 

[ladysarahchatto]

I realize you were responding to someone else, but since I also mentioned Janet's name.... I didn't mean that I would remember Sasha years from now for the same qualities that I remember Janet Lynn for (and the qualities you mention are the Janet qualities I had in mind). Sasha has different special qualities for me. Janet's "nemesis" was also different. For Janet it was figures that kept her from more Gold. For Sasha it is (so far) LP mistakes that have kept her from more Gold. But I do believe Sasha will still be remembered for her special stuff, as Janet is for her special stuff.

DG

Speaking of Janet's "nemesis" which were indeed the school figures I read that the ISU came up with the SP (wasn't it called something else in 1973?) just for skaters like Janet. And unfortunately Janet who seems to have been Sashaesque in her day bombed the SP at the 1973 Worlds and Canada's Karen Magnussen (the 1972 Olympic Silver medallist) took the title.

There are many many athletes in all sports who just never found the way to win the biggest titles in their sports. It doesn't mean they weren't great IMO. Just not on the night it counted most. Heck most of us never get beyond high school sports.

 

[lulu]

I forgot to mention --

Ogre Mage, your opening post on this thread was a great bit of writing. It was better written than the article, LOL.

MM

I agree. A very well written post and eloquent overview of Sasha's career.

 

[orchid]

I too agree with Sasha, I think sometimes people focus on the negative to make themselves feel superior or feel better in some way. It's like looking at the glass as half empty rather than half full.What good does it do.

Every athlete {any competitive sport] faces this question, when they do not win, or perform as "expected".
For Sasha to expect some special consideration is ridiculous and probably contributes in large to her competition performance problem.

"...Focusing on the negative HAS nothing to do with the interviewer's self-esteem:

 

[orchid]

Although their records may be similar, I don't think Bobek was in the same league as Cohen.

I don't have anything against Sasha. When I first saw her compete (at Junior level?) I was absolutely wow'd, couldn't wait to see her mature. But she hit a wall and it's a shame. As far as the "it" factor, her skating is exquisite and she has displayed moments of skating genius. But it goes beyond the rink, it is something deeper, that I can't articulate. She isn't alone, not all top skaters have "it". Just one person's opinion...others feel differently and that's okay.

Mp post did not make a career comparison to Bobek -> Cohen, just the spiral.

 

[MKFSfan]

I don't know...I think many elite skaters have an impact on the skating world in some way. It's easy to look right now and say Sasha has more influence over today's skaters than Nancy does, today. But in the mid-90's, Nancy probably was seen as an influence on some skaters-Jenny Kirk for one comes to mind. She was credited with "sharing" that hand on the knee spiral, for one thing.

I think many skater's emulate other skaters, kind of reinvent old styles and make it their own. By that I mean Sasha reminds me of Nicole Bobek, who reminded me of Oksana Baul, who reminded me of Caryn Kadavy. But you wouldn't say,"Oh, Alissa is just like Oksana with those positions!"

 

[sarahmistral]

One of the things I'll remember Sasha for is her exquisite interpretation and execution of beautiful choreography in the choreographically-blah era of COP, i.e. '06 Oly R&J Matt Savoie is another one, but this thread's about Sasha. Give her a beautiful program, well put together moves in the field, in short, a true program, not a list of items to tick off, and she put her gifts to the task and delivered. Why she couldn't land all the jumps every time? at least once? when it counted? For reasons similar to many, many great (and perhaps less gifted) skaters who have come before her (Olympic champions Kristi Yamaguchi and Scott Hamilton come to mind), who have been luckier in competing for their big titles against a lesser field in terms of jump consistency. It's made out to be a big deal in Sasha's case because her talent is so striking and unique; the eye demands perfection in every respect when it sees what her obvious natural gifts are. And sometimes a preponderance of natural gifts actually gets in the way of developing grit and perseverance as qualities in a person, because you're taught that you're worthy because of what you were born with, not what you work hard to do; you expect your talent to carry you through, and you don't learn to push through as effectively when it doesn't, as effectively as your less talented but more persevering peers may have learned to do. I know of this firsthand because I've had that experience time and time again in my professional life; this doesn't make the person who's brought up to feel that way a bad person or arrogant in any way, but some will beg to differ.

Anywhoo, them's the breaks; I, for one, have enjoyed many of her performances, and would have liked to see a flawless one, but the most human and beautiful performance of hers, for me, was her R&J Olympic program. Others I've enjoyed: '06 Oly SP to Dark Eyes, '02 Oly SP (made me a fan; I found her so flowing, so musical - probably the most effortless, connected program I've seen her do - I found it magical), '02 Oly Exhibition to Hernando's Hideaway.

Hope to see her perform again; maybe the pressure shifting onto the new generation will help her competitive chances, who knows?

I wish her the best.

Cheers,
Sarah m.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Every athlete {any competitive sport] faces this question, when they do not win, or perform as "expected".
For Sasha to expect some special consideration is ridiculous and probably contributes in large to her competition performance problem.

"...Focusing on the negative HAS nothing to do with the interviewer's self-esteem:

I had promised myself that I wouldn't comment anymore, but this statement is so true that I had to second Orchid's opinion...

Skating is a sport and in sports if you don't deliver, you don't win. Period. I'm sure Sasha understands this, hence her frustration about her skating. I'm sure she'd rather be remembered for wins vs. accolades for her elegance on ice. Winning might not be everything, but you show me one athlete who can honestly say: winning isn't important and I'll show you an athlete that is lacking something... whether that's competitive fire, the ability to win the big prize, lack of access to training, or something.... or they've won absolutely EVERTHING and still aren't totally fulfilled.

In my professional life, I've seen it too many times. All athletes want to win or else they'd be doing something else...

 

[MKFSfan]

...skaters who have come before her (Olympic champions Kristi Yamaguchi and Scott Hamilton come to mind), who have been luckier in competing for their big titles against a lesser field in terms of jump consistency. It's made out to be a big deal in Sasha's case because her talent is so striking and unique; the eye demands perfection in every respect when it sees what her obvious natural gifts are.

And sometimes a preponderance of natural gifts actually gets in the way of developing grit and perseverance as qualities in a person, because you're taught that you're worthy because of what you were born with, not what you work hard to do; you expect your talent to carry you through, and you don't learn to push through as effectively when it doesn't, as effectively as your less talented but more persevering peers may have learned to do.

Thing is, I think too many fans and even commentators make a big deal out of the whole "we expect Sasha to be perfect" like we think Sasha is so above and beyond the rest of the field, she is perfection or something. IMO, it's more that her major competitors know how to deliver, how to reach that extra gear to give a performance of a lifetime. It's not that I expect SASHA to be perfect everytime out, but I expect her to be the competitor her peers are, and that is unfair of me. To me, that is what seperates her from the field of great champions, that she has yet to seize the moment and throw down her best when it counts.


I agree with the 2nd part. Sasha's team has very obviously told her over and over if she stands up, noone can touch her. That makes pressure and expectations enormous. I think one of the best things Frank did for Michelle was keep her humble: he told her Tara deserved to win in 1998, no matter what anyone else thinks or says. Nicks tells Sasha and the press:

"Sasha's the number 1 US lady."
"When you skate like that, noone can beat you."
"If Sasha skates up to her potential, she will win, everyone knows that."

I agree a coach needs to motivate and build confidence, but I think in Sasha's case, she probably feels so overwhelmed by such statements. JMO!

 

[76olympics]

OK, I have had a hard week and so this may color my commentary here, but I can't consider Sasha to be a tragic figure. She doesn't have a World or Olympic gold and I don't think she will be heralded as the most memorable person to ever grace the sport. However, who is going to quibble about a national title, World Silver, Olympic Silver and numerous other medals; she is more successful than most people in the sport. She is still very young with her whole life ahead of her. She brought some distinctive features to her skating- beautiful positions, flexibility and musicality at her best.

As I struggle with a disabled child's issues where the answers are more important and less easy to find, I wish that I could step into Sasha's skates at times (or her size O jeans!).

 

[orchid]

OK, I have had a hard week and so this may color my commentary here, but I can't consider Sasha to be a tragic figure. She doesn't have a World or Olympic gold and I don't think she will be heralded as the most memorable person to ever grace the sport. However, who is going to quibble about a national title, World Silver, Olympic Silver and numerous other medals; she is more successful than most people in the sport. She is still very young with her whole life ahead of her. She brought some distinctive features to her skating- beautiful positions, flexibility and musicality at her best.

As I struggle with a disabled child's issues where the answers are more important and less easy to find, I wish that I could step into Sasha's skates at times (or her size O jeans!).

Anyone dare to top this? I hope not. This is this the clue to close this thread.
Best wishes 76

 

[Rgirl]

Trying to top or even compare "tragedies" is a fool's errand by any standard and not what this thread is about anyway. [EDIT: This is not a reference to anything 76Olympics posted, but rather my feelings in general.] Of course all my hopes and best wishes go to 76Olympics and her child.

As for whether or not to continue posting on this thread, ie, Orchid's reply to 76Olympics, I only saw this thread for the first time on 4-1-06. A few people may want to say something, repetitious though things may be. Naturally nobody has to read them, especially mine.

First of all, I think I'm the third person who wishes to tell Ogre Mage that her Post #1 was superb. Not only was it better than the article, but as I was reading it I thought for a moment, "I'm guess Ogre Mage had to copy more of the article onto the board because of some glitch. Wow, this is the most well-written article on figure skating I've ever read," which immediately made me realize that what I was reading on OM's post couldn't possibly be an AP, USFSA, or any standard figure skating writer's article. It had to be Ogre Mage's writing. It was too good to be by any of the "pros."

Ogre Mage's post:

One thing I'm particularly glad you mentioned was the unusual lack of luck Cohen had in terms of Worlds and to a lesser extent, the Olympics. As I watched Cohen's career, often her best skates were early in the season, during the GPS. I've talked before about Tarasova's black and white "Swan Lake" as being "the one that got away" program. In fall of '03, as I saw Sasha skate Tarasova's B/W "Swan Lake," I thought, "If she can't win Worlds with this [against what I knew would be her competition] she either doesn't want it or she's jinxed." One could argue, "Well Sasha fired Tarasova," but as far as I know, who knows? One version of the story says it was Sasha's mother, another version is that Tarasova dropped Sasha because she disobeyed her and fulfilled her contract to do the ISU December cheezefest. Cohen was sick and TAT didn't want her to skate Cheeze so she could rest and recover to win the GPF. But if Cohen didn't skate the cheezefest, she'd be in trouble with the ISU, which Tarasova couldn't understand because "Is better to win important international competition."

So Sasha skates both Cheeze and GPF, doing poorly at Cheeze and coming in 2nd at GPF. But more importantly, which no one could know at the time, Cohen (whether if was Mom or Sasha, it doesn't really matter) leaving Tarasova made her available for Arakawa, whom Tarasova transformed during the three weeks they worked together before Worlds from a steady jumper with under-rotated 3/3s, gorgeous edges, great beauty, and not much else into an all-around champion threat who Sasha had always easily beaten before.

Meanwhile, Sasha's mother chose Robin "I'm just going to make a few minor music changes to 'Swan Lake'" Wagner for her daughter's coach. I do think Sasha's jump technique improved with Wagner and improved quickly, it's too rude to say what I think Wagner did to Tarasova's "Swan." Also, aside from Sasha herself with her '03 blue and yellow majorette costume, I'd never seen anyone make Sasha look bad in a costume until Wagner. With the high turtleneck and low-hipped "tu tu" style feathered skirt, it made Sasha, who is naturally long-torsoed, look as if her five-foot frame was four-feet of head and torso and one foot of legs. And the choreography was as god-awful as I have ever seen.

The reason I wrote kind of a map of what happened, ie, but for the change from Tarasova to Wagner, Sasha would have had an incredible program that she did, at least in the fall, extremely well and Shizuka would not have been able to go to Tarasova as a coach, who, quite literally turned Shizza from a beautiful also-ran into a 3/3/2, fully dropped arch Ina Bauer jaw-dropper. Lest we forget, Shizza won Japanese Nationals in the late '90s, went to Worlds once, then was replaced by Fumie and thus Shizza didn't go to Worlds for five years. I can't help but wonder if she hadn't had those three weeks with Tarasova in '04 how her story might have turned out. That's another thread.

Anyway, '04 Worlds is one example that Ogre Mage brought up in which Sasha skated very well, at least well enough to have probably won Worlds with a well-trained version of Tarasova's b/w "Swan Lake." But ironically, Team Sasha's own choices set in motion a series of events that prevented her from even having a chance at winning Worlds, ie, getting Wagner's awful and COMPLETELY redone "Swan Lake" and giving Shizuka the opportunity to have Tarasova as her coach, which enabled her to skate at a whole new level.

And that's just a detailed example of what seemed to happen throughout Sasha's career, thus far. Some might say it's a more expanded version of what's happened to Michelle with the Olympics. Or if you want to get into a really hard luck case, Angela Nikodinov.

Having had tragedy in my own family and loved ones and having worked with head injury and spinal cord para- and quadriplegics, plus those afflicted with other devastating diseases, of course I wouldn't call any athlete's career that includes an Olympic silver medal a "tragedy" by any means. She's met with frustrating and bitter disappointment made worse by the constant drumbeat of the media: Failed again, failed again. All the other "baby ballerinas" that came on the scene with Sasha have either stopped skating or been taken out of skating by injury. Naomi Nari Nam is perhaps, and I hope, the exception if she can find success in pairs. Sasha's situation is only "tragic" in the rarefied and relatively small world of athletes with great physical gifts who failed to live up to their potential. But tragic in terms of the real world--nope. She's just another young person who got smacked in the face with the disillusions of misfortune despite exceptional talent and hard work.

Still I feel badly for Sasha because I know she's not old enough to really believe that life is truly chaos, and certainly not nearly old enough to understand it. Both her love of skating and her love for her family have taken hits. But Jenny Kirk and Angela Nikodinov, to name just two, certainly have had to endure much worse. Sasha's plight seems big right now because of the Olympics and Worlds, and because this was the season when it seemed as if things would actually come together for her and all her work and experience would finally pay off.

I also think some people are reacting differently to Sasha than they have in the past because, especially after Worlds, I think the exhaustion made it so she couldn't hold up her armor in front of the media and we saw the genuinely vulnerable side of Sasha, which clearly she has not wanted the public to see. Also, IMO, Sasha's heart is being broken over her first grapplings with the reality of family collapse and the false aspects of "the American dream." ie, "They tell you that if you work hard and are a good person that you will succeed. What they don't tell you is that you can do all that and just as easily fail." The only reason we're talking about Cohen is that the life lessons she's learning, which millions of people in the US learn every day, if not every minute, is that Sasha's happened on the world stage with the media and figure skating commentators examining it.

Another thing that occurred to me while watching the "Season Review" of skating of ESPN is how the same color medal at the same event can be vastly different in value. Belbin and Agosto's Olympic silver and World bronze medals are considered triumphs by the media and themselves. Sasha's Olympic silver and World bronze are considered failures by same. I wrote in another post about how GSer BronzeisGolden's name is representative of the difference between the actual medal and what it represents to the skater's fans and, hopefully, the skater. I said in the post that I hoped someday Sasha would be able to see that, under the circumstances, her Olympic silver medal personally represents gold. Why? Because after collapsing on her first jump pass, an intended 3/2/2, and awkwardly putting both hands down on her second jump pass--literally the worst first 20 seconds of a program I have ever seen--she fought for the rest of her performance of "Romeo and Juliet," making it, for me, absolutely the most beautifully skated, the more gorgeously choreographed, the most effectively musically interpreted, the most striking costumed, and imbued with the most moving and genuine characterization I've ever seen in ladies singles skating.

However, the reality is that the world of figure skating and its fans see Sasha's Olympic and World results as flops. Speaking only for myself, I find it sad to watch someone, no matter who it is, go through these kinds of things, eg, my heart ached even more for Irina. Of course Sasha's "flops" aren't even in anywhere near the same category as watching the many other horrible things I've seen happen to loved ones, friends, patients, and the world in general. But as Oscar Wilde said, "There are two tragedies in life. One is gaining your heart's desire. The other is losing it."

Anyway, even if Sasha's competitive career is over, it doesn't necessarily mean her skating career is over. I think the only international medal Paul Wylie ever won, at age 27, was his Olympic silver; yet Paul is one of the most beloved skaters today, still remembered for his rich professional career, not his eligible one. However, Paul was fortunate in that he won his Olympic silver and turned pro at a time when pro skating was just starting perhaps its one and only Golden Age. Same for Kurt Browning, who, despite having won four World titles, couldn't even get on the podium at either the '92 or '94 Olympics.

If Sasha does stos competing and just continues skating with COI, I can't see her being satisfied with one solo and one group program on tour every spring and summer. And although SOI offers a far more challenging and intense artistic and technical skating experience than COI, if SOI offered Sasha a contract and she did join now, she would have to give up her Olympic eligibility, which I also can't see her being satisfied with. OTOH, the years between 20 and 25 are when women especially go from being able to fairly easily recover from their injuries, if they even have them, to becoming less and less able to recover from injury. Since Sasha already seems to have had a somewhat chronic back injury since her teens, her body may ultimately be the thing that decides what she'll do in the future. But, at least right now, I think the "How will history remember Sasha?" question is a bit premature.

(OFF-TOPIC: I think the five years from about age 17-18 to 22-23 when Shizuka was off the Japanese World team was the best thing that ever happened to her in terms of having a body health enough to enable her to become Olympic champion at age 25.)

At least up until now, what I'll remember Sasha for are how she skated and who she was at two events: (a) The little red hummingbird of a thing who skated at '00 Nationals; and (b) her Torino Olympic LP skate, which I described earlier.

If I had to give Sasha a name to characterize her skating thus far, it would be "Flawed Perfection." An oxymoron, which is, of course, the combination of two incongruous or contradictory terms. But for me, that's the equation for Sasha, at least so far. It's much of what makes Sasha's skating exciting to watch and also much of what makes her skating maddening to watch.

If Sasha's body holds up and she is able to continue to compete but cannot solve her consistency problems, of course she'll lose out on championships. However, we, the audience--at least those who like Sasha or could like a consistent Sasha--will also lose. We will lose out on being able to watch what might have been one of the most stunningly beautiful skaters ever to grace the sport. Sasha's loss is our loss, too.

Interesting thread topic, Ogre Mage. Thanks for starting the thread, and doing so with such a beautiful and beautifully written post. Wish I'd seen it sooner.

Rgirl

 

[anything_for_skating]

I was reading this article over at the USFSA web site and noticed this quote:



Which got me thinking, if Sasha retires now, how WILL her skating be viewed 4 or 8 years from now? Her career has been one of the most interesting, perplexing and controversial in skating.

She made a breathtaking debut on the scene in 2000, already fully formed artistically but lacking in other areas. The American media raved about her and predicted she would be the next big ladies skating star. For all her grace on the ice, however, her programs usually had mistakes. Strangely, there was no pattern to them. Sometimes it would be one move, sometimes another at the beginning, middle or end of the program.

She made several coaching changes and over the years improved in nearly every area of her skating. Her spins and spirals were good even in her early days, before long they were signature moves. Her basic skating, once a weakness, became respectable and her flexibility, line and extension remained unmatched. Yet for all her improvements, the inconsistency remained. Skating insiders didn't get it. The debate over the reason for her problems was an ubiquitous topic among skating fans for many, many years. The "killer instinct" that others possessed (Michelle, Sarah, Kimmie) just did not seem to be a part of her genetic makeup.

Over the course of her career, she won a U.S. Nats title, an Olympic Silver, 2 World Silvers, a World Bronze and a GPF gold. That wasn't as good as she had hoped or equal to the American media hype. Yet it was an extremely impressive record by any standard. In some ways, Sasha was unlucky. Sometimes it takes a great performance to win a championship, sometimes only a good one. She never seemed to be able to pull together a truly great performance in major event and on the several occasions that she was good, someone else was great.

Ultimately, I think Sasha will be remembered as a superb artistic skater who came very close to realizing her full potential. The gifts she possessed, no one can teach. You could see it in her spectacular spiral and layback positions, the gorgeous split in her Charlotte and Russian Split Jump, the great extension in her camel spin and the natural dance ability in the footwork of her Dark Eyes and Malaguena SPs. Those are the things I'll remember about her skating.

....:disapp: I wouldn't say so.....
Maybe you Americans will remember her a something really special, but here in Europe...:no:
The only thing that people will remember her is her famous total split sparrow, but only until someone with better sparrows comes-and it will be soon.
Nothing else. For example, I never liked American style of skating, but still I like Michelle better than Sasha.:frown2:

 

[76olympics]

Actually, I was not trying to close the thread or compare tragedies. I don't think Sasha's skating results represent a tragedy, to tell you the truth. Perhaps, a disappointment. I was just taken aback by the number of people on many boards and in the media who seemed to feel that Sasha should be devastated or ashamed about her flaws in the long programs. I was merely making the point that if you look at Sasha's career, it is a very worthy one. I would hope that Sasha would look at her achievements and not the negative media or blogs or internet rambles. She is a very young person with a very good resume and a great deal of life to go....

That was all I meant to say and I was not looking for sympathy, empathy or any related emotion. To search for such on an internet board would be folly at best. In fact, Sasha is already looking outside the world of skating in many respects (see her charitable work in an Olympic Ice segment).

Bravo to Sasha in whatever she chooses to do!

 

[anniemg]

....:disapp: I wouldn't say so.....
Maybe you Americans will remember her a something really special, but here in Europe...:no:
The only thing that people will remember her is her famous total split sparrow, but only until someone with better sparrows comes-and it will be soon.
Nothing else. For example, I never liked American style of skating, but still I like Michelle better than Sasha.:frown2:

Ehm...I'm from Europe and I will always remember her as the most special skater there is...don't generalise things....

 

[R.D.]

10 years later, we can dig this up and then we'll know for sure. Yawn :sheesh:

 

[slutskayafan21]

As somebody that was on the podium alot at big events, but never on top, and won only one U.S title. Similar to Nancy Kerrigan but without the extra attention due to an off-ice incident.

 

[Rgirl]

Actually, I was not trying to close the thread or compare tragedies. I don't think Sasha's skating results represent a tragedy, to tell you the truth. Perhaps, a disappointment. I was just taken aback by the number of people on many boards and in the media who seemed to feel that Sasha should be devastated or ashamed about her flaws in the long programs. I was merely making the point that if you look at Sasha's career, it is a very worthy one. I would hope that Sasha would look at her achievements and not the negative media or blogs or internet rambles. She is a very young person with a very good resume and a great deal of life to go....

That was all I meant to say and I was not looking for sympathy, empathy or any related emotion. To search for such on an internet board would be folly at best. In fact, Sasha is already looking outside the world of skating in many respects (see her charitable work in an Olympic Ice segment).

Bravo to Sasha in whatever she chooses to do!

ITA with not only this post, but also your previous post. I realize now that I didn't make it clear in yet another one of my magnum posts that I wasn't referring to anything you posted when I said, "But if people still want to post about Sasha, last time I looked, closing a thread was a mod's decision." My reference, at least in my head, was to Orchid's response to your post,

Anyone dare to top this? I hope not. This is this the clue to close this thread. Best wishes 76.

But I see now that the way the first few sentences are organized, it looks as if I'm talking about you. Sorry about that. I'll edit and try to fix it.

Nor was I referring to you when I said, "Trying to top or even compare 'tragedies' is a fool's errand by any standard and not what this thread is about anyway." Again, sorry I was unclear about that and again, I'll try to repair it.

Later in the thread I said a couple of more things about tragedy and how Sasha's "flops" certainly were not in that category. Those are not references to you either. They were just my general feelings on how much a skater is defined by winning the the "wrong" medal at the Olympics, especially, but also at Worlds. I didn't include this in my post--it certainly didn't need any more, lol--but I can't count the number of articles I read that focused on how much money Sasha lost by winning silver instead of gold, as if to say, "You're worthless now, babe."

Which brings me to a couple of specific points I especially loved about this post, in addition to loving the whole thing--and your previous post, too, Specifically, I really loved the sentence: [qroup]I was just taken aback by the number of people on many boards and in the media who seemed to feel that Sasha should be devastated or ashamed about her flaws in the long programs. I was merely making the point that if you look at Sasha's career, it is a very worthy one.[/quote] I couldn't agree more. From the time Sasha first came on the scene in 2000 until she won her first World silver in '04, the general consensus, at least on GS, was that Sasha was just a "circus monkey"; that all she did was "acrobatics on ice"; and that she had no conception of what "real" skating was. The implication by many, and stated outright by some, was that Sasha should just hang up her skates and quit ruining the sport.

After she won two World silvers, beating some very stiff competition in the process, then the consensus was, "See? She can't even win a World championship because she's so inconsistent. She could easily win World gold if she could just stay on her feet. She falls so much she could Zamboni the ice with her butt, har har!"

At the time, I was Sasha neutral. I was enchanted by her senior USN debut in 2000, but for a long while after that, I'd go back and forth. Yes, I did want her to work more on her basics and Tarasova didn't seem to be the right coach to help her do that. OTOH, I was annoyed by the intensity of the animosity towards her.

For example, a couple of years ago, someone on this board made it her mission to bash Sasha every day. After about a year of this, several people, including me and one of the mods, posted something to her. She stopped the outright bashing but still got in little digs, such as how Sasha had "the ugliest hair" and "Once again, Sasha has ruined one of my favorite pieces of music for me by skating to it." It was so absurd it was funny, actually.

OTOH, there was another poster, now banned, who wrote obscene PMs to three posters who had disagreed with him about Sasha. I know how obscene they were because I was one of the honored three who got one. Believe me, The Seven Dirty Words don't make me bat an eyelash, but the whole reason this poster had for attacking we three posters was not funny at all, just pathetic--especially given that this now-banned poster is a physician. These are extreme examples, but there was also a general climate of hatred toward Sasha on GS and at least one other general forum, which is now defunct, which made me wonder, "What is it about Sasha that generates such outrageous hatred for her in certain people?"

I also really liked these two sentences:

I would hope that Sasha would look at her achievements and not the negative media or blogs or internet rambles. She is a very young person with a very good resume and a great deal of life to go....

Very true and a very understanding point of view.

And:

...In fact, Sasha is already looking outside the world of skating in many respects (see her charitable work in an Olympic Ice segment).

I'm glad you brought this up. This aspect of Sasha's character is so often overlooked. But let her go to an Oscar party between the Olympics and Worlds and at least one poster wrote (am quoting from memory, so it may not be exact), "Maybe if she hadn't been off gallivanting around, she'd be World Champion!" Puh-lease.

Anyway, I appreciate your perspective and hope I was able to clarify any misunderstandings due to the poor writing in my previous post.

Bravo to you, 76Olympics.

Rgirl

 

[R.D.]

but there was also a general climate of hatred toward Sasha on GS and at least one other general forum, which is now defunct, which made me wonder, "What is it about Sasha that generates such outrageous hatred for her in certain people?"

I agree that the climate towards Cohen USED to be somewhat negative. But it's gotten a lot more neutral now (I think the Sasha fans now balance out the non-Cohen fans. You can tell in the discussions.) because now I'm noticing such comments about Cohen are put in check by some posters (hope you don't get offended when I say you're one of them). IIRC this never used to happen here. How times change.

To get at your last point though...you may disagree with me but FROM HER PERSONA, I don't think she's likeable at all. I've explained why in other posts and I won't rehash them. However, this does not translate into hatred of her on my end. But I do like her honesty and willingness to say things that most other skaters would rather keep to themselves. Therefore, I can see why people would not like her at all. But it's not like she's been winning anything. I think the hatred of her would be that much greater if she had won more competitions. JMO

But let her go to an Oscar party between the Olympics and Worlds and at least one poster wrote (am quoting from memory, so it may not be exact), "Maybe if she hadn't been off gallivanting around, she'd be World Champion!" Puh-lease.

We know that's a bunch of crap, and that's putting it nicely. She was clearly tired from the Oly season and IMO she should have just skipped it. Emily and Kimmie would have kept the US' 3 World spots anyway. Cohen didn't NEED to be there. And if she WAS pressured by outside forces to go, I do feel sorry for her.

 

[76olympics]

Thanks, Rgirl, I truly appreciate your taking all the time and effort to clarify that! It means a good bit to me and I understand where you are coming from too now. Friday was a "Jonah" day for me ( to steal from "Anne of Green Gables")-but I had been growing tired of the Sasha bashing since the Olympics (not here in particular but on many boards and media outlets). Sasha is not my favorite skater , but it troubled me to think about any talented young skater who had accomplished a good bit taking some of the vitriol I have been reading to heart. Here's hoping for a good week for everybody!