ISU Communication No. 2474 - Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for marking Grade of Execution and Program Components, Season 2022/23

[lariko]

The judging will always be subjective and collegial, but this is progression of scrutiny over the quality of a jump.

I am curious if it will impact spins and step sequences visually

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This helps Kostornaia a lot, I think it also benefits Sasha relative to Kamila and Anna (most affected of the three). I think it will help prolong Valieva's career if policed properly.

This helps Kostornaia a lot, I think it also benefits Sasha relative to Kamila and Anna (most affected of the three). I think it will help prolong Valieva's career if policed properly.

Hmmm Kostornaia is the first skater I thought of for the change of edge in a triple toe combo. But Eteri’s girls adapt. They will train until they correct what the new technical parameters ascribe.

I am curious to see how the additional scrutiny to jumps will work out. It addresses a lot of complaints on the forums, so I hope it will satisfy at least someone.

Oh I doubt it. Some folks are never satisfied. If anything this gives the PR fanatics more ammunition.

I’m glad it doesn’t affect BV though because tech specialists could essentially determine outcomes.

I’m expecting some crazy GOE spreads next season as some judges do and don’t apply the rules.

 

[4everchan]

You are free to see whatever you want to see, you can even fully ignore why the name is a "sequence" and not a "combination".

semantics evolve... i love how the Russians use cascade. I also liked when, in the old times, some skaters would do a series (that's my favourite word for it) of multiple jumps, (3-4, even 5) with different tricks in them including what we would call combo, Eu, Seq. If the rules keep changing, you bet I will not get attached to semantics... if the SEQ is no longer discriminated, then it's no longer a SEQ but just a COMBO.

 

[halulupu]

What kind of new intresting layouts are possible with the A seq (mediocre non russian woman with no ultra c, shaky 3-3, but all the triples)?

And how could a Eteri Top woman improve her layout?

 

[kolyadafan2002]

What kind of new intresting layouts are possible with the A seq (mediocre non russian woman with no ultra c, shaky 3-3, but all the triples)?

And how could a Eteri Top woman improve her layout?

Well, they can do +eu+3S, and 2 x 2A seq, then solo 3T and 3Lo instead of in combo.
That to me would be biggest advantage or something along that.

Tbh with the +SEQ debate, I will say this: rhythmically loads of people prefer +eu+3S to +2A seq. And both are easier than +3T/+3Lo combo. If they rediscriminate against +2A sequences, they should consider doing same for euler combos.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Well, they can do +eu+3S, and 2 x 2A seq, then solo 3T and 3Lo instead of in combo.
That to me would be biggest advantage or something along that.

But it won't work due to Zayak rule? With this layout you have to do a solo 2A, so you can't have two 2As in a combo. Look at Kurakova's layout, for example. It's +Eu+3F, not +Eu+3S, but still illustrates what I mean.
But it will be possible to do 3-2T-2(T/Lo) and two 2A SEQs.

 

[AxelLover]

I don't like the new rule regarding the 2A SEQ. Free skates of many (female) skaters contain at least one solo 2A and a combination like 3F+3T. With this new rule they are not really motivated to keep doing the relatively difficult 3F+3T because they can do 3F+2A SEQ and a solo 3T instead.

 

[TontoK]

I don't like the new rule regarding the 2A SEQ. Free skates of many (female) skaters contain at least one solo 2A and a combination like 3F+3T. With this new rule they are not really motivated to keep doing the relatively difficult 3F+3T because they can do 3F+2A SEQ and a solo 3T instead.

To some degree, I think, but I'm going to need others to chime in to confirm or refute....

I assume we're talking about women. The most competitive skaters are still going to need a 3/3 because of the SP requirements. A combination jump is required, not a sequence.

 

[4everchan]

But it won't work due to Zayak rule? With this layout you have to do a solo 2A, so you can't have two 2As in a combo. Look at Kurakova's layout, for example. It's +Eu+3F, not +Eu+3S, but still illustrates what I mean.
But it will be possible to do 3-2T-2(T/Lo) and two 2A SEQs.

not so sure about that.... i think what is required is to include an axel type jump... and it can be in any way or form. Veronik Mallet used to finish her LP with a 2a-2a sequence... I think that's possible.

 

[AlexBreeze]

not so sure about that.... i think what is required is to include an axel type jump... and it can be in any way or form. Veronik Mallet used to finish her LP with a 2a-2a sequence... I think that's possible.

I don't mean it's required to include a solo axel. I mean if you go 3+Eu+3S, 3 solo triples and two 3+2As, you have a free jumping pass, but you can't do one more triple jump or one more 2A because of Zayak rule.

Katya's layout illustrates it well

 

[4everchan]

I don't mean it's required to include a solo axel. I mean if you go 3+Eu+3S, 3 solo triples and two 3+2As, you have a free jumping pass, but you can't do one more triple jump or one more 2A because of Zayak rule.

Katya's layout illustrates it well

yes... that's correct. Sorry i misunderstood your post. In kurakova's layout, then her SEQ gets her more points... So in this case, it does help a skater who is not doing a +3t or + 3loop combo... but it could also help a skater who does a 3t-3t combo or a 3loop-3loop combo... or even one with a quad...

the Seq is useful to more than one kind of skater. It can be useful to a weaker skater who doesn't have a traditional +3 combo but it can be useful as well to a skater who has a quad in there as well and wants to avoid using a 2t or a euler combo

 

[kolyadafan2002]

But it won't work due to Zayak rule? With this layout you have to do a solo 2A, so you can't have two 2As in a combo. Look at Kurakova's layout, for example. It's +Eu+3F, not +Eu+3S, but still illustrates what I mean.
But it will be possible to do 3-2T-2(T/Lo) and two 2A SEQs.

I was thinking mostly for Tuktamysheva with the 3A, but yeah without an ultra-C I can't think of a layout that doesn't require a double jump.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I was thinking mostly for Tuktamysheva with the 3A, but yeah without an ultra-C I can't think of a layout that doesn't require a double jump.

Yes, without a 3A/quad they will be forced to do a double jump. Even a 3A however does alleviate that issue which really goes to show the huge advantage that it can give a skater not just in terms of BV vs a 2A.

 

[halulupu]

To sum up: The new seq rule would help: - -skater with weak 3-3,who want to avoid the risk in a fp
-skaters with 3t3t, 3l3l only
-quadsters can avoid 2t and gain points
-more 3t as single jumps, many more 3x2a jumps in the second half
-of no use for 3lz/3f-3t + 3lz/3f-eu-3s skaters, this layout would be relatively less interesting

Is it fair though to push as easier consider combinations/sequence for the sake of more attractiveness and more divers layouts? Difficult questions

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Yes, without a 3A/quad they will be forced to do a double jump. Even a 3A however does alleviate that issue which really goes to show the huge advantage that it can give a skater not just in terms of BV vs a 2A.

yup. you can still keep the 2A in. In the FS it's less about a 3A vs a 2A, it's an extra jump to include instead of a 2T - so a 3A vs a 2T. (with SEQ the 3A replaces the 2A that replaces the 2T)

 

[cheerknithanson]

Are the euler combo jumps still legal?

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Are the euler combo jumps still legal?

Yup

 

[Tomadeur]

"Changes of edge in between jumps in a combo will now incur a -1 to -2 GOE reduction."

If I understand the rules correctly, there is only an change of edges if there is a change from the inside edge to the outside edge and vice versa and not to a flat edge - at least that's the rule for spins. How is this for jumps?

If that is the case, I don't think this rule will have any real effect on the scoring and if anything will extend the time to score. And even with slow motion or stills it's often not clear to judge if the camera perspective is not perfect - even more so if it's not a huge event. I'm curious how that will be handled.

 

[lariko]

Oh I doubt it. Some folks are never satisfied. If anything this gives the PR fanatics more ammunition.

We’ll see. But I hope at least peeps would be happy that there is a very distinctive acknowledgement of the issue. Even fall equals -1 rule is used with some discretion, so that’s business as usual, but now PR is spelled out as a mistake they will be looking at specifically.

 

[McBibus]

• Poor take-off: For example a toe-assisted jump is taken off from the full blade, Toe Loop is executed like a Toe Axel or there is excessive rotation on the ice at the take-off. The reduction in GOE is -1 to -3.

Good on the chart, but last year we saw a 4S scored as a 4Lz.
It was not a full blade assist on a pick jump it was plain and square a blade jump
Looks like one those things that will exist for everyone except someone