It's not that simple. For example look at team Mozet: Volosozhar, Stolbova and Tarasova looks absolutely normal, all these pairs has high twist and throws. Or the opposite - Kawaguti is tiny but their thows aren't big and they has problem with twist. So for me it looks like some coaches know how to learn these elements wothiut making a skeleton from a girl and some coaches don't know this and make girls to lose weight more and more.
Julia Antipova seriously ill
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It's not that simple. For example look at team Mozet: Volosozhar, Stolbova and Tarasova looks absolutely normal, all these pairs has high twist and throws. Or the opposite - Kawaguti is tiny but their thows aren't big and they has problem with twist. So for me it looks like some coaches know how to learn these elements wothiut making a skeleton from a girl and some coaches don't know this and make girls to lose weight more and more.
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I think K/S problem with throw/twist has a lot to do with Sasha's health condition?
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It's not simple, but it's still easier.
And Tarasova doesn't look absolutely normal in my opinion. Did you see the twist that Antipova / Maisuradze did in their SP at Worlds 14? The height was insane. Think about quad twists. I know that bodies are different, some are naturally very skinny and don't have problems with it and some really struggle when their weight is low. And some get ill.
The ISU should care about these things and they could do something if they really wanted to. A couple of years ago the rules in ski jumping changed, before that change the length of the skies depended on the athlete's height, now it depends on the athlete's weight.
I'm no expert, but I think they could use a factor in the judging (equally to the jumps in the 2nd half of the program thing) that depends on the weight difference between the partners.
Take into consideration that neither Russian nor English are my first languages. While I understand Russian, I am not sure how great my translation will be.
There is a few bits that make me a bit disgusted with Nodari. But for example this one:
- As I understand it, the main problem is that there was not a nutritionist; the situation with weight was being addressed by the coaches - to the extend they knew about the issue. It turned out that they didn't know enough.
- Yes, there was not a nutritionist! And I ... I came to Moscow from Zelenograd. I really wanted to achieve something in figure skating. So I tried, I did my best. I asked myself: "Wouldn't God see my efforts and I not reward me?". I did not know who this Natalia Pavlova was, but my parents knew. And when the opportunity came to get to her and try pairs - we went. At first, there were no incidents: a good coach, everything was all right. But then came a moment when I began to fill out in the summer, because I started puberty. And they put me on a diet. I started to grow breasts, butt - that's no use to anyone in pairs! And more ... Natalia Pavlova had really seen every hundred grams of weight. They could start yelling at you in training, she would say anything at such moments. And the partner supported her, "Julia, well, if you want her not to scream at you, lose weight."
- So in reality the partner sided with the coach? And you are the second skater in a row who came out of this triangle with anorexia?
- Before my anorexia it was Liuba Ilyushechkina, who also skated with Nodari Maisuradze and coached by Natalia Pavlova. She wrote in her diaries 'Yes, when you have the partner and trainer united against you,it is not very easy'. Nodari could have said: "Natalia Evgenevna, do not shout, my partner is normal, I can still pick her up easily." But he said something quite different. Pavlova had been his coach for a long time, they worked together back in St. Petersburg, so Nodari was always on her side. But in principle, there is such approach that the boy is the God, and the girl - consumer goods.
I would understand if Nodari made the mistake in the past. At the time Liubov became unwell, he was still quite young too and it may have been his first encounter with anorexia. But do the same mistake twice? Julia was a child and he was already an adult man. I understand that there is a safety issue if the partner is heavy, but Julia was definitely far from being heavy. So his motivation couldn't have been the safety; let's face it, it is easier for him to have a lighter partner, but to the detriment of her health? Was it worth it? Now he is missing out a season as a result. And if he starts with a new partner, the chances are that he will lose another year or two to get to the level he was with Julia. All this could have been prevented if he was a proper man.
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Why not make all female pair skaters to be of certain (healthy) weight and anyone who will be under or over will have points deducted.
(And we may find out that there are no pairs left because they may think that it would not be worth it to pursue pairs). Even now there is not that many senior pairs. In fact, Russia, China, Canada, USA and a few extra. There was only 11 pairs at Europeans if we don't count Russia and only 1 pair at at 4CC if we don't count China, Canada and USA. That's not much.I think they wanted to do that in ski jumping, that the athletes have a certain body mass index, but the athletes and trainer didn't like that at all. Because there are some people who are naturally very thin and it shouldn't be to their disadvantage.Why not make all female pair skaters to be of certain (healthy) weight and anyone who will be under or over will have points deducted.
And maybe there would be more pairs in the future if they would adapt the judging just a little bit ... I mean, seriously, as a parent would you want your 14 year old daughter to start pair skating? Apart from the fact that it is indeed a dangerous sport, the pressure concering the weight is obviously very high.
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Thank you for taking the time in translate.
I understand your point now, but reading the interview it would be hard to believe that either coach and her partner have any future in figure skate anymore. And if they do, hope that both learn their leasson.
I don´t know how does it work in other rinks/ federation, but does anyone have a nutriotionist?
I used to swim competitive when I was younger, but if I wanted a diet I need it to go to the doctor myself. Can anybody ilustrate please.
Yeah, she's doing her best to destroy their careers and I'm not sure her partner deserves that, before this interview she was always saying good things about him. Maybe he did make some poor comments about her weight, but it's not like he knew she was about to become anorexic and it's not like weight is a taboo topic in sport. If she told him he needs to buff up and he ended up with a trauma as a result of that, would he be going around telling everyone she's the one to blame for his trauma? Doesn't seem reasonable to me.
As for Ilyushechkina, wikipedia doesn't mention anything about anorexia. Maybe managing weight was tough for her as well, but that's part of the sport isn't it.
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cruzceleste said:
There is at least one club that does.
http://dscclub.com/staff/amber-czisny-roy-2/
Detroit Skating Club has Alissa Czisny's sister Amber on staff. Amber is a certified sports nutritionist.
Re Lubov, this report on the team's Russian nationals by Tatiana Flajde:
http://www.ifsmagazine.com/articles/32371-plushenko-captures-ninth-title
and this report of Lubov's diaries being delivered to Piseev
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...hechkina-wants-to-skate-for-france-but.83687/
quique translation
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ove-2012-off-season.83356/page-7#post-3573095
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As for Iliuschetchkina, wikipedia may not mention anything about her having anorexia in the past, but it has been publicly mentioned a few times. Her (and Julia's) coach was 'kind enough' to mention that in an interview at the time they split up. And recently someone asked Liubov during some interview about her past anorexia and she said that she doesn't want to talk about it; she didn't say "what anorexia, I never had it." So it is pretty clear that she used to have it.
Do you want to post here any interview where Julia is talking nicely about Nodari? I must have missed those! All the interviews actually mention that she hasn't seen him since she got unwell, and then it doesn't go into more details about their relationship. But if you have some where she thinks that he is a supportive guy, please post it here.
Your sentence "Maybe he did make some poor comments about her weight, but it's not like he knew she was about to become anorexic and it's not like weight is a taboo topic in sport." sound a little bit arrogant. If she was Nodari's first partner who has suffered anorexia, he may claim he didn't know about those issues, but if she is second partner, wouldn't he learn by now? If someone is weighing under 40 kilos and is still told to lose weight, something is wrong somewhere. she was 14-15 year old child when they partnered. He was an adult. He was supposed to be her partner. But obviously he was more concerned about her doing his job easier rather than about her welfare.
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- Oct 7, 2014
Wow.
She talks about how after she started growing, she was only allowed a diet that was not enough even for a regular person, and of course not for an athlete. She was yelled at even if she put a 100 grams. And when she and her parents talked about wanting to leave, they asked her father to exit the room and pressured her to stay (we've put so much into you, how can you think of leaving?). she doesn't really blame her partner in the interview. She only said that he always took Pavlova's side. She says that she hasn't spoken to him, because that would make her relieve the trauma and the disease might return.
She talks about how after she started growing, she was only allowed a diet that was not enough even for a regular person, and of course not for an athlete. She was yelled at even if she put a 100 grams. And when she and her parents talked about wanting to leave, they asked her father to exit the room and pressured her to stay (we've put so much into you, how can you think of leaving?). she doesn't really blame her partner in the interview. She only said that he always took Pavlova's side. She says that she hasn't spoken to him, because that would make her relieve the trauma and the disease might return.
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It is really hard though because a lot of cases aren't as black and white as this one seems to be- though right now we only have Julia's perspective on what's gone on, no one elses. Quite obviously, it is a fact that skaters have to be in good shape, and for many of them, especially in pairs (both men and women) there is in fact a prime weight within a very few pounds that is/would be the sweet spot. Women in pairs do very carefully have to watch their weight, to pretend otherwise does no one any good and in fact is just another way of turning a blind eye to the problem. Anyway, the REAL problem comes when a skater who truly should not have gained 5-10 pounds gains it (again, this does not appear to be the case here, but I think it is actually a common scenario). At that juncture, everyone is in a difficult position. As a coach/partner this has to be addressed, but as you say some people are susceptible to anorexia. How to address it to make sure losing 5 pounds doesn't turn into the person going nuts and losing 40? Honestly, there is no certain way, but that doesn't change the fact that it has to be addressed. Obviously certain things can make it less likely to go bad (a nutritionist, an appropriate tone), but the fact is some people are just susceptible to this.
Further, Julia seems not to realize that some people are susceptible to this. I know this comment is going to win me no fans on the board, but chances are unfortunately very good that even if her coach and partner had been sweetness and light about how they approached the issue, things may have gone wrong in her mind anyway. I think the real think I'd be inclined to blame them for, more than anything else (and her parents too) is letting her lose THAT MUCH weight before seeking help for her. A lot of anorexics pile on layers to hide the weight gain but I suspect it would have been much harder for her to do that than most, with the wide variety of work out clothes she wears on a daily basis.
I am reluctant to pass this harsh of judgment without hearing his side of the story at all. I do agree he acted wrongly but villainizing him to this degree without knowing any more than one thing Julia claims he said to her is a bit much.
I actually think it is tacky of Antipova to be bringing Luba up (though in fairness she is obviously distressed). Luba never has mentioned it herself and when asked about it in interviews has clearly said she does not know Julia so she can't comment on her situation, and she does NOT want to talk about it. I think her (Antipova's) comments about her coach and ex partner are quite damning enough without dragging Luba somewhere she doesn't want to be, even if the cat was already kind of out of the bag it's clear it wasn't all the way out of the bag since multiple posters here have said they did not know. Further even now Luba has not even confirmed this herself- it is all stuff her coach and now Julia has said. I do believe it's in her diaries and true but we'd have no way of ever knowing this if these people who are not her would have kept their mouths shut.
I disagree with that bit. Saying that she would have to be suicidal to want to return to Nodari is in my books blaming him. She is not putting completely all blame on him, but making it clear that was was a part of the problem and contributed to her illness.
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- Oct 7, 2014
Well, from her point of view he probably was, even if I'm sure he never thought of harming her. We probably shouldn't take her words about him so soon as some sort of fact. I also don't think she should have spoken like that, but she is still recovering from mental illness.
But as for the coach... I'm pretty sure the accusations are deserved in that case.
I guess that was just the general impression I was getting. She didn't accuse him of anything at least. And the whole story started with someone who was a friend of Nodari's family, that's the person who initially spread the news about anorexia online. So clearly Nodari was worried at least.
From my personal perspective, I can tell you that when you start recovering from anorexia, you get a lot of feelings at once and there is a lot to deal with from the years (or months, or however long) that you tried to surpress all of that by not eating or doing other behaviors. It's kind of like a numbing experience, and when you get better there is so much to deal with at once, that I can understand that Julia's comments right now are not very... nuanced. I think if we would ask similar questions a year down the road we would receive some different answers.
Yes, it's just really hard when one part of the partnership is growing and going through puberty. The focus shouldn't be on short-term results then, because the partner also has to adapt constantly to the ongoing change in the partner's physique.
I agree, things could have gone wrong anyway. It seems she was very focused and ambitious (as were her parents for sure) and I guess she was thrilled to get such a good partner. So I'm sure she certainly did want to please him.
I think she shouldn't be judged too harshly about what she's saying right now, because she's recovering from a very serious illness and has to review the driving forces in her life ... a kind of inventory about alle the things and persons that affected her and have contributed to her self-destructing behaviour. This is probably very beneficial for her ongoing recovery. She might be over the worst, but a relapse is always possible and to me it seems that especially persons with eating disorders have a tendency to present themselves better than they really are.
I just read a French article and there was a picture of her and you could see so much of her ribs! In the skating pics I didn't realize she was so skinny, but now I see. Although it is good that she enjoys and embraces the care rather than pushing it away. I hope that she recovers soon!
There's a post by Yulya's choreographer Alexei Zheleznyakov on her official VK group. He says she's wrong to blame Dmitriev and that in his opinion he did all he could to make her gain some weight, but it was already too late.
https://vk.com/club81415156
https://vk.com/club81415156
Dmitriev replies: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20150220/808781350.html
He says he is partly to blame, since he couldn't stop it from progressing. He also says that for the past year and a half he talked to Yulia's parents at least twice a week and they've always said they know better. When asked about her condition, they were saying that she's just tired and she's fine. So everyone involved keeps blaming each other I guess.
He says he is partly to blame, since he couldn't stop it from progressing. He also says that for the past year and a half he talked to Yulia's parents at least twice a week and they've always said they know better. When asked about her condition, they were saying that she's just tired and she's fine. So everyone involved keeps blaming each other I guess.
