Ladies Finals: Am I the only one who....

[antmanb]

maybe, but well, on the other hand, they may be cheering for someone to lose so that their favorite can win. It doesn't mean they don't like any other skaters. That's why I don't get this way of thinking.

Besides, not everyone likes Cohen or thinks she's so great. To these people, she's probably just another boring/fake skater and they can't wait to see her go down in flames. IMO, they got their wish.

Grudge holding could also play a big factor since comments she made earlier (and even now) make many people believe she's a spoiled princess.

No - that is where you totally get it wrong RD. I'm someone who looks at Cohen's skating pretty much how you described - she does nothing for me at all, in the slightest. But the bit i've highlighted in bold is the leap you make that is totally wrong. Just because i don't care for her skating and wouldn't go out of my way to watch it, it doesn't mean that i therefore want her to skate badly and wish her to be upset and revel in her upset like some people in this thread clearly have. It means i'm neutral to her skating, i don't feel very much. My hope was that she would skate clean and be judged fairly, my next hope was that Fumie would go out and skate lights out and be judges fairly and that the result would end in Fumie winning the title. That was what i felt while watching Cohen's program. But at the end of the program i felt really sad for her because i actually got caught up in the program knowing that she'd hit the elements she'd missed in Torino and thought she might finally do the clean skate she's wanted forever...the skating made me sit up and watch...it didn't matter that it was a skater i hadn't previously enjoyed, and i felt her bitter disappointment at the end.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

We are talking about being figure skating fans who enjoy good competitions without all the trash talk about skaters being ugly, being fat, falling, thick thighs, ugly costumes and wishing bad luck to them.

Dee

Pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaase please please don't make me have to stop being nasty about the costumes!!!! I'm a HUGE fan of figure skating not just figure skaters and being mean about the costumes is all part of my objective figure skating fandom.....how can i keep a straight face when an ice dancer skates onto the ice and leaves a trail of feathers in her wake?!?!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I also don't get people claiming to be FS fans, while thinking that at every turn, there is a Vast Conspiracy For Crooked Judging / Technical Calling. I am fully aware that the sport of FS has rightfully earned it's place in having this sort of thing questioned. But really - if one has no faith at all that most of the judges / callers are doing their best - why watch? (said with obvious Rose Colored Glasses Firmly In Place - I Suppose )

I don't think there is a conspiracy or crooked judging in every competition but i just don't trust the judges - some are proven, convicted cheaters and yet they are still allowed to sully the sport i love by being on judging panel after judging panel. The whistel blowers - the ones revealing the cheaters and doing good are banned for life while the cheaters are given 3 year suspensions. Speedy claims this system eradicates cheating from the judging and touts this at every step. I firmly am against this view and want it known as often as he spouts the rubbish that it does. IN response to the bit i put in bold above I'm a true figure skating fan because the skating to me isn't about the result - its about what the skaters actually do on the ice, not about results of titles - i can look past the dodgy results and still enjoy the skating that gets done on the ice regardless of the judging (in which i have little rather than no faith).

I will close by saying that I'm sort of :scratch: by a primary topic in the World's Thread being about how the Gold Medal winner of Men's Wuzrobbed. That's really a new one on me. I suppose if a 1/4 rotation on an axel is the dominant "wuzrobbed" topic this year, then the NJS really is an improvement.

Because a mistake may have been made - sure it didn't affect the result of this competition but a mistake may nonetheless have been made. I want my judges/callers to be accountable for their actions - my enjoyment of the sport does not hinge on this but if they are going to make up a whole new bunch of complicated rules that i've bothered to read so that i can follow what the judges/callers are supposedly trying to do, then i would appreciate it if they are applied correctly. They are the ones who wrote the rules and if they can't even apply them properly then to me it shows a fundamental flaw in either their rules or the application...i'm a lawyer so from jurisprudential point of view i'm interested in this!!

Lutzloop - '05 US Nats was my first and only live competition (and it was AWESOME!!). It was clear from watching many practices (all groups / all diciplines) that this ISN'T home ice practice. There is strategy involved on many levels - different for each skater. There are also other considerations - healthwise, etc. I would not assume from a few practices at a major competition ANYTHING about how a skater may or may not be training at home. From what I saw in practices, many of the top contenders did not appear at "early in the week" practices, and very few ever did anything close to a full run through. For me, the fun of getting up frightfully early and dragging my rear to the rink was watching "everything else" that was going on.

DG

And don't forget that tactics take place in the practices and warm ups. We've all heard of the Joubert/Pluschenko p***ing competitions that occur in the practices. There's a a story that i can only half remember about John Curry in official practises practising his Olympic program with a particlar element in it done a particular way that set off rumours of something like an illegal move or some such thing and in the end he was psyching everyone out because despite practsing his program with this "new" element in all week, he did his oroginal version in the competition. Though his coach Fassi was the king of head games i suppose.

Even the commentators here note that they find it intersting to see what the skters do in the warm ups. Some work up to all of theiur jumps up from 2A right through to 4T in the warm up, some just jump through big easy singles and double and only do a couple of triples. T&D renownedly never skated together, spoke to each other or so much as looked at each other until they went to get on the ice for their program, even in the warm up (and i think even back stage).

Ant

 

[jsteam4501s]

And I'm banking on Kimmie hopefully to get some personality out there on the ice...pronto...how about transferring her bubbly off-ice personality onto the ice? that would be really cool! But I wouldn't count on it.

Red Dog, just curious - Why is Kimmie the only skater that you would REQUIRE having a personality on-ice ? SURELY you don't think that any of those zombies at Olympics and Worlds (not to include Sasha and Fumie) actually have personality, do you?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Trust the old Sage of skating.

The next wave of skating in America will be Katy and Kimmie - one with presentation and the other will technical. I hope Katy will be in Marshalls to get a closer look.

Personally, I prefer Alissa but she has jump issues.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I also don't get people claiming to be FS fans, while thinking that at every turn, there is a Vast Conspiracy For Crooked Judging / Technical Calling. I am fully aware that the sport of FS has rightfully earned it's place in having this sort of thing questioned. But really - if one has no faith at all that most of the judges / callers are doing their best - why watch?

Why indeed. I think the ISU is greatly to blame for bringing this state of affairs down on its own head.

The problems are:

1. Secret judging. No matter how much we skating fans believe in our hearts that the judges/callers are doing their best, the ISU is thumbing its nose at us saying, "suckers."

2. No punishment for admitted and proven cheaters. Can you think of any other sport where an official is caught on tape cheating, admits in public forums that he/she cheated, and then -- all is forgiven -- is back judging again after a season or two?

'05 US Nats was my first and only live competition (and it was AWESOME!!). It was clear from watching many practices (all groups / all diciplines) that this ISN'T home ice practice. There is strategy involved on many levels - different for each skater....

Attending practises is absolutely the most fun of going to these events live. (For one thing, you get to meet other fans in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere.)

The most awesome practice session I ever saw was Skate America one year. It was fairly early in the morning. Michelle was there, and every eye was on her. She was very obviously aware of the (sparse) crowd, running through her elements in full "presentation mode." (Maybe I'm putting words into her mouth, but if she was "sending a message" to the other skaters, it was, "I'm Michelle Kwan. You're not." )

Anyway, she left the ice after about 15 minutes, and one-by-one all the other skaters finished up and took their bows, too, until only one skaters was left -- Ann Patrice McDonough. So AP gave the crowd a solo exhition for about 20 minutes, giving complete run-throughs of both her long and short programs, including practicing both endings to her Madame Buttlefly routine -- the one where she stabbed herself and the one where she didn't, LOL.

To me, that skate was the highlight of the event.

MM

 

[Doggygirl]

Why indeed. I think the ISU is greatly to blame for bringing this state of affairs down on its own head.

The problems are:

1. Secret judging. No matter how much we skating fans believe in our hearts that the judges/callers are doing their best, the ISU is thumbing its nose at us saying, "suckers."

2. No punishment for admitted and proven cheaters. Can you think of any other sport where an official is caught on tape cheating, admits in public forums that he/she cheated, and then -- all is forgiven -- is back judging again after a season or two?

Attending practises is absolutely the most fun of going to these events live. (For one thing, you get to meet other fans in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere.)

MM - There is no arguing these valid points. I admit that I try hard not to think about it - "the fix is in" is just not a way I can have fun watching events. (rose colored glasses on to the bitter end!!! ) I was happy and hopeful with Dance especially this year - seeing more movement in the standings between the phases, and some unexpected things with the podium at World's.

I love your description of the SA practice you saw!! I loved all the practices at Nats, but I was particularly surprised (pleasantly) by the DRAMA of the ice dance practices!! No tights and T-shirts for them. Full spangles, make up, stares and glares, posturing....total DIVA time!!! :chorus: :chorus:

And then of course there was Rohene.

DG

 

[Rgirl]

No - that is where you totally get it wrong RD. I'm someone who looks at Cohen's skating pretty much how you described - she does nothing for me at all, in the slightest. But the bit i've highlighted in bold is the leap you make that is totally wrong. Just because i don't care for her skating and wouldn't go out of my way to watch it, it doesn't mean that i therefore want her to skate badly and wish her to be upset and revel in her upset like some people in this thread clearly have. It means i'm neutral to her skating, i don't feel very much. My hope was that she would skate clean and be judged fairly, my next hope was that Fumie would go out and skate lights out and be judges fairly and that the result would end in Fumie winning the title. That was what i felt while watching Cohen's program. But at the end of the program i felt really sad for her because i actually got caught up in the program knowing that she'd hit the elements she'd missed in Torino and thought she might finally do the clean skate she's wanted forever...the skating made me sit up and watch...it didn't matter that it was a skater i hadn't previously enjoyed, and i felt her bitter disappointment at the end.
Ant

An attorney! But of course! Only a lawyer, and a good one, could so cogently state ideas that I've been aimlessly blabbing about in one overblown post after another in one beautifully constructed paragraph. That's the OGM of posts on this subject, IMO, Ant.

I hope you'll give me your permission to use it, with all proper acknowledgments of course, if I ever get into another thread in which this subject comes up again, which I hope never happens. But I'm not a pigs-can-fly kind of gal, so...

Anyway, bravo Antmanb!

Rgirl

 

[Dee4707]

Pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaase please please don't make me have to stop being nasty about the costumes!!!! I'm a HUGE fan of figure skating not just figure skaters and being mean about the costumes is all part of my objective figure skating fandom.....how can i keep a straight face when an ice dancer skates onto the ice and leaves a trail of feathers in her wake?!?!

Ant

Ant, I agree about the costumes. I was just trying to put it in terms for Red Dog to understand what I was saying.

Red Dog has very selective reading skills and either doesn't like me or I am the most stupid person to walk the face of the earth. I will say though that Red Dog is one of my favorite internet people.

Dee

 

[Rgirl]

Frau Muller's Post #1, starting this thread.

Question Ladies Finals: Am I the only one who....
....jumped out of his/her seat, yelled a 'yipee!' and did a Happy Dance when Kimmie passed Sasha to the #1 spot?:chorus: :chorus: :chorus:

I bet I'm not alone....

Frau Muller's Post #28:

That's right - I was wishing for either Kimmie or Joannie or Fumie to win. Love all three of them. I've never cared for Sasha - find her a bit arrogant - but do wish her well, as a human being.

I realize I'm very late to quote Posts #1 and #28, but as I reread the thread, something occurred to me.

Frau Muller, you are indeed entitled to your opinion, as am I. From the way you started this thread, emphasizing how ecstatic you were that Kimmie surpassed Sasha for the #1 spot, rather than stating how ecstatic you are that Kimmie won Worlds and leaving out Sasha, it is my opinion that in Post #28, when you say, "I've never cared for Sasha - find her a bit arrogant - but do wish her well, as a human being." (my emphasis) it is total bull s***.

Yours is such a doltish and tedious tactic among people like you who have to hate one athlete in order to love another one to expose through very clear language exactly what you feel with your first statement and once you realize that everybody can see right through it, you try to put cover up you first statements by saying, in so many words, "Oh, but you misunderstand me! I just meant I was happy for Kimmie! I don't care for Sasha, but I wish her well as a human being."

Garbage, garbage, garbage in a great big plastic see-through bag.

I don't care if you hate Sasha. Good Lord, IMO about half the posters on GS hate her. But since you already exposed your true feelings in Post #1, don't make yourself look like the fool you are as well as someone who is being condescending to the other posters by trying to backtrack on what you said in Post #1 by tapdancing around it Post #28. You started out honest, so why not continue to be honest and say, "...I could never stand Sasha. I've always found her to be an arrogant little b****. I was as happy as I could be that she not only lost, but lost with a very embarrassing performance that ended with her falling flat on her butt. Sasha got everything she deserved. As far as what happens to her now off the ice, I couldn't care less. I just hope she is never successful as a figure skater." Or words to that effect.

Sound a little more genuine? I bet I'm not alone.

I'm all for choosing words carefully if that is what one genuinely feels. But you started out kicking Cohen in the teeth and then tried to say you didn't mean it, that we readers had misunderstood you.

Get a decent IQ. Nobody here is stupid enough to fall for that kind of crap.

BTW, just for the record,I like Kimmie's skating very much, especially having seen her skate live with COI last spring. IMO, she deserved to win Worlds without a doubt.

Wishing You Well as a Human Being, of Course!
Rgirl

P.S. To those who posted that Cohen doesn't train enough or properly: Please post or PM me a description of how Sasha trains based on what must be your many first-hand observations of her training over the past four years. I'd be very interested to hear from those of you who were obviously actually there in the rink watching John Nicks work with Cohen.

 

[R.D.]

No - that is where you totally get it wrong RD. I'm someone who looks at Cohen's skating pretty much how you described - she does nothing for me at all, in the slightest. But the bit i've highlighted in bold is the leap you make that is totally wrong. Just because i don't care for her skating and wouldn't go out of my way to watch it, it doesn't mean that i therefore want her to skate badly and wish her to be upset and revel in her upset like some people in this thread clearly have. It means i'm neutral to her skating, i don't feel very much. My hope was that she would skate clean and be judged fairly, my next hope was that Fumie would go out and skate lights out and be judges fairly and that the result would end in Fumie winning the title. That was what i felt while watching Cohen's program. But at the end of the program i felt really sad for her because i actually got caught up in the program knowing that she'd hit the elements she'd missed in Torino and thought she might finally do the clean skate she's wanted forever...the skating made me sit up and watch...it didn't matter that it was a skater i hadn't previously enjoyed, and i felt her bitter disappointment at the end.

Ant

I agree with you, but maybe I should have been clearer. By "these people" I was referring to the haters in particular, not ALL non-Cohen fans. Sorry for the miscommunication

And I also felt that way- about many skaters which I normally either don't like or don't dig, too.

To me its simple - if you are sat watching a competition and actively hoping someone falls so that another skater can win (unless you are related to/married to/going out with the skater you want to win) you are not that nice of a person. If you then come on a public figure skating board and express an opinion that you were happy that the skater fell because you dislike that skater and/or it allowed a skater you like more to win, then i think that makes you a vile mean spirited person who can't really be a fan of skating (they are merely a fan of a skater).

Well, I think there's a fine line to be crossed here and I think I have a different interpretation than you do (and maybe everyone else, lol). I don't think it's NICE to say you're happy a skater fell, but I wouldn't jump on them either- at least if they only said it ONCE. It's when you say it repeatedly or use it as a basis of bashing the skater that it becomes mean-spirited. JMO...and I suppose how you say it too matters.

Red Dog, just curious - Why is Kimmie the only skater that you would REQUIRE having a personality on-ice ? SURELY you don't think that any of those zombies at Olympics and Worlds (not to include Sasha and Fumie) actually have personality, do you?

Well, you're right I'm not REQUIRING that Kimmie get personality; it was kind of a joke by me to say that she has a chance to keep me interested in FS if she does just that

Red Dog has very selective reading skills and either doesn't like me or I am the most stupid person to walk the face of the earth. I will say though that Red Dog is one of my favorite internet people.

Now, don't you go off thinking I didn't see this

and no, I don't "not like" you. Most of you are cool- most of the time.


There was one time where defending Cohen was the lowest one could stoop. I try to avoid doing this at all costs, but I actually think it's justified in this thread. But I wonder if I truly see anything questionable in the quoted posts. Then again, maybe I missed something (and I don't feel like going back and reading all the posts anyway). I've seen worse remarks from posters here, actually, re. Cohen that have gone unchallenged...repeatedly, too.

But half the people here hate Sasha? I think that's a real exaggeration. I know of only two posters- and one of them hasn't posted here in a long time- that are TRUE Sasha haters, IMO. Everyone else (in question) either just doesn't dig her or is a nonfan. But the difference is that these haters are quite vocal, giving the impression that more people hate Sasha than is actually the case.

JMO. Typically my opinions are in the minority anyway. But DO realize that I'm just sort of playing DA with this post, and don't particularly support the haters in question. Just their freedom to express their opinion without getting jumped on- in a mindful way, of course. Most do, but a couple don't.

 

[Dee4707]

I've seen worse remarks from posters here, actually, re. Cohen that have gone unchallenged...repeatedly, too.

Red Dog, please understand something--------I don't care about all the nonchalant posters. During the Olympics and Worlds we had an influx of new posters, where are they now. Remember Geisha?? What I think about Golden Skate is it is one of the top notch skating boards on the internet. I have learned many things here and have lots more to learn from very intelligent skating fans. I think the reason I don’t challenge some posters is--- who are they?? I challenge regular posters that have been here and make comments that are actually beneath the dignity of the board.

Dee

 

[R.D.]

I understand that, but I'm also referring to REGULAR posters making these comments. I've seen many of these comments go unchallenged while everything non-glowing about Kwan was picked apart. But maybe that was back in the day.

 

[Mathman]

... But maybe that was back in the day...

Kwan bashing is s-o-o-o last season.

Get with it, guys. Lysacek-Lambiel is the new Michelle-Sasha. GS leads the way!

 

[Dee4707]

Kwan bashing is s-o-o-o last season.

Get with it, guys. Lysacek-Lambiel is the new Michelle-Sasha. GS leads the way!

You're right (as always) Math............but Red Dog keeps barking up the wrong tree. Make him stop or take him for a walk.

Dee

 

[Frau Muller]

Get a decent IQ. Nobody here is stupid enough to fall for that kind of crap..

Rgirl - Chill, honey. Some win - some lose. It's just sport.

The Frau

 

[attyfan]

Kwan bashing is s-o-o-o last season.

Get with it, guys. Lysacek-Lambiel is the new Michelle-Sasha. GS leads the way!

If Lysacek-Lambiel is the new Michelle-Sasha, what is Lysacek-Weir?

 

[Rgirl]

Rgirl - Chill, honey. Some win - some lose. It's just sport.

Ah, the dim and boring old, "Let me try to make you look as if you're overreacting by saying 'Sweetie, honey, baby! Don't get so upset! It's just sport!' routine." But don't worry. People like you never fail to give themselves away.

First, you need to get a good high school English student to explain my post to you--a 10th grader should suffice. But just to be a pal and save you time, I'll go point by point.

I had no problem with the outcome of Worlds. I'm happy Kimmie won. IMO, the outcomes accurately reflected the skating: the right ladies won and the right ones lost.

So your, "Chill, honey. Some win - some lose. It's just sport," entirely missed my point, which I tried to make as obvious as possible for you. The subject of my post concerned only you: The way you tried to hide your true intentions in starting this thread.

For example, given that several "Happy Kimmie Won"- and "Outcome of Ladies Worlds"-type threads went up as soon as the winner was official, why didn't you congratulate Kimmie and express your feelings about other skaters on one or more of those threads?

The only thread GS lacked was one for all the Sasha haters to congratulate each other on Sasha having lost. And that's where you came in, happy to give yourself and others of your ilk a Sasha-bashing thread.

So my question was, in so many words, why not take the credit you deserve? Why not entitle your thread, "Ladies Finals: Am I the Only One Who is THRILLED that Sasha Lost BIG TIME?!" arty: arty: arty: Then, in your second post, why back-track on what you did say and thus try to hide what many people here obviously would have congratulated you for doing?

Clearly it's not "just sport" to you, Der Frau. Looks like you've got lots of serious skater hatin' on your mind.

Chillin' With the Skatin', Just not With the Fakin',
Rgirl

 

[R.D.]

Well, now that this thread has clearly gone off topic it's not so much SC bashing any more is it?

 

[Rgirl]

I understand that, but I'm also referring to REGULAR posters making these comments. I've seen many of these comments go unchallenged while everything non-glowing about Kwan was picked apart. But maybe that was back in the day.

I think for many, many fans, "the day" will always belong to Michelle.

Well, now that this thread has clearly gone off topic it's not so much SC bashing any more is it?

Very true, Red Dog, which is why I specified in my Post #90, "I realize I'm very late to quote Posts #1 and #28, but as I reread the thread, something occurred to me." Thread topics will go where thread topics will go, and sometimes even get back on topic, if even just for a few posts. No COP for threads, other than what the mods and GSk8 decide.

Rgirl