Ladies Q A - Notes & Results
- Thread starter Rosaleen
- Start date
What Sasha Left Out?
I'm confused. I thought I read that Sasha left out the loop. Did she leave out the toe instead? Or both?
ETA:
Answering my own questions, from Rosaleen's notes:
Sasha Cohen USA Start # 19
Ordinals 1 1 1 1 1 1 2
Swan Lake white & black costume we’ve all seen
3z2t too close to boards to see if clean but I think I might have heard something that makes me think the z was 2footed / 3f / sideways split spiral / 3t / 2a / huge split jump into charlotte with big cheers from the crowd / 3s2t / flycam has excellent stretch to inside edge / some movement & emoting in place to the music / 3z at far end of rink possibly 2ft / 3s tight landing but kept it clean...
So, she had the 3T, but not the 3L. So, how will a clean, loopless Sasha fare against a clean loopy Divakawa?
Lucy-Lucy25 said:
I'm confused. I thought I read that Sasha left out the loop. Did she leave out the toe instead? Or both?
ETA:
Answering my own questions, from Rosaleen's notes:
Sasha Cohen USA Start # 19
Ordinals 1 1 1 1 1 1 2
Swan Lake white & black costume we’ve all seen
3z2t too close to boards to see if clean but I think I might have heard something that makes me think the z was 2footed / 3f / sideways split spiral / 3t / 2a / huge split jump into charlotte with big cheers from the crowd / 3s2t / flycam has excellent stretch to inside edge / some movement & emoting in place to the music / 3z at far end of rink possibly 2ft / 3s tight landing but kept it clean...
So, she had the 3T, but not the 3L. So, how will a clean, loopless Sasha fare against a clean loopy Divakawa?
Last edited:
You know what? I saw the reports that said she omitted the loop, but on FSU, they said it was really the toe, and how that made so much more sense since it is her problem jump. Now I am tending to believe it was the loop because both Rosaleen and the USFSA said loop. Hmmm...now I am really confused. 
Eyria,eyria said:
As I understand it, the Q rounds are seeded. The problem is, in order to seed skaters, the ISU counts competitions in which some of the top skaters don't participate. For example, last year, Sokolova was a non-seeded skater who happened to come out like gangbusters with a two 3/3 Q round after being out of the sport for five years. So I see the problem as being the way the ISU seeds skaters. It's a mess.
And you're right; the same thing happened last year with one group being more competitive than the other; it's just affecting different skaters this year. But it's a very bad system, IMO. Finally, I don't know if you can accurately seed figure skaters since there's no way to compare skaters just coming out of juniors to those who have been at the senior level.
Using the OBO system, I'd like to see Worlds dump the Q rounds altogether, at least in terms of contributing to the final results. Fine to use them to reduce the final participants to the top 24, which is the way it used to be, but to use the Q round results to determine the final outcome is too dependent on who's in which group.
OTOH, with the COP, which Doggygirl and Pitchka mentioned, I can see the Q rounds being more fair as long as the results applied to the final outcome are based on points rather than placement. Thus under the COP, even though there would be two groups, the scores would be combined. The results for the Q round would simply reflect the order of the scores. If three skaters from Group A had the three highest scores over any skater from Group B, then those three skaters from Group A would be the top three after the Q round. No ordinals would be used, just the COP score.
Also, using the Q rounds just to determine the 24 finalists means the skaters can conserve energy during the Q round. To do a six- or seven-triple LP with full-out performance energy in the Q round, sometimes at 6am, and many with at least one 3/3; then 24 to 48 hours later do a full-out SP; and then 24 hours later do a full-out final LP is, IMO, too damn much. But doing a runthrough of your LP just to make sure you make the finals takes a lot less out of the skaters. JMO.
Rgirl
Last edited:
As we've all seen many times, and others have mentioned, being behind really lights a fire under Michelle. So I think we'll see some great skating from her.Lucy25 said:
However, if she doesn't win, I think Michelle will be very bothered. Michelle is at these events to win. At this point, why else should she go? And I disagree that she has nothing else to prove. Certainly Michelle has nothing left to prove in terms of her skating abilities, but there is Maribelle Owens record of World wins. Sometimes people take it as a diss if someone says Michelle wants to win, but the fact is, all the top skaters want to win and if a skater isn't in contention to win or medal, she still wants to place as high as possible.
I think skaters truly put a lot of stock in skating their best, but it still doesn't make up for another World championship when you're looking down the road at the '06 Olympics, up-and-coming skaters are throwing down two 3/3 programs in competition, and you're in a position to break a major record in terms of World championships won.
If Michelle does not win this Worlds I think it would bother her very much indeed, which is in every way a compliment since I think it's part of why she's the great skater she is.
Rgirl
I do agree if Michelle loose the title it's going to be a huge impact on her next two year, on her eligible future. But I am wondering what made her skate so poorly at qualifying round. From all the articles writing about her, it seems she's well trained, practicing three times a day, under a reknowned coach's instruction. Does the fact she hasn't competed in Europe for a few years contribute one of the reasons? I also feel maybe both she and her coach may neglect something, such as mental toughness and keeping the confidence under the pressure. Even though Michelle has been known as a tough competitor, the confidence level is really determined by the situation you are in. Does anybody know how Michelle skated at the offical practice session? I am thinking the problem may start from there.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Although she did win Nationals, I really think that not competing all season long might not work to her advantage. I would imagine that seeing what other ladies are accomplishing and going head to head with them during the season would be beneficial.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2003
I think I have a slight problem?
Sad that it seems that skating has gone to such lengths to where jumping is the all important issue here. Michelle Kwan landed 4 triples compared to Victoriya Volchkova's 6 triples. Ok so give or take the technical mark "should" be better...or should it? How much should the technical mark on Volchkovas part be higher than Michelles?
Michelle has much better spins than Victoriya...right? Thats technical merit correct? Michelle Kwans connecting steps, footwork sequences (i am sure is technical) I am positive is superb compared to that of Volchkovas relatively still juniorish approach to skating...her jumps are the only things that have been on an "senior" level...
I'm sorry not even looking at the performances I completely agree with Michelle Kwans placement over Victoriya Volchkova...Volchkova has and continues to be unrefined un-finished and this jump fiasco is killing me...from reading the reports I do think that the placements look to be fair...
There are several other elements in skating that make up these marks...not just jumps people...we have spins/footwork/spirals several in sequence...and presentation and Volchkova should be lucky to get over a 5.5 for presentation in my book on any day...
Michelle Kwan...girl get it together, you are not in a favorable position at all...lets start recooperating.
BTW...Shiziku I am so proud of you...keep it up girl!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Qualz A was the Goughest
There were just so manz more stars in Qualz A than B.
The results in ord:
Shiyuka took the arena by bounds. Her performance was incredibly good and her first place well deserved. And TT relished in the thought
Everzone was waiting to see the much talked about Miki Ando. She skated well. She looked like this was her first worlds and that's all she gave. Judges must have believed the attempted quad was real. I would have placed her 6th.
Kwan skated as if she was doing a run through of her routine. Kinda bland aand of course, the two falls didn#t help. She was however, given a gift of 3rd place. Should have been 5th.
Pozko - was this year's surprise. A beautiful performance and worthy of 2nd lplace.
Slutskaya also skated blandly and without any charm A few triples and a bielman spin. No combos. She also got a fift and should have placed 7th.
I can't warm up to Kostner but she does have some trikple combos, but not much else.
Volchkova was robbed. She had the best skate of her life and wdid not get the 2nd or 3rd place deserved.
It was not Fumie's daz.
There were many other skatrers in Group B who were better than average.
Wish this could be shown on TV.
Joe
There were just so manz more stars in Qualz A than B.
The results in ord:
Shiyuka took the arena by bounds. Her performance was incredibly good and her first place well deserved. And TT relished in the thought
Everzone was waiting to see the much talked about Miki Ando. She skated well. She looked like this was her first worlds and that's all she gave. Judges must have believed the attempted quad was real. I would have placed her 6th.
Kwan skated as if she was doing a run through of her routine. Kinda bland aand of course, the two falls didn#t help. She was however, given a gift of 3rd place. Should have been 5th.
Pozko - was this year's surprise. A beautiful performance and worthy of 2nd lplace.
Slutskaya also skated blandly and without any charm A few triples and a bielman spin. No combos. She also got a fift and should have placed 7th.
I can't warm up to Kostner but she does have some trikple combos, but not much else.
Volchkova was robbed. She had the best skate of her life and wdid not get the 2nd or 3rd place deserved.
It was not Fumie's daz.
There were many other skatrers in Group B who were better than average.
Wish this could be shown on TV.
Joe
I read in a interview she said she wish she had come in practice earlier at the morning. She didn't felt the ice, she felt her skates diddn't down into the ice, untill half of her LP it was too late. And it is a wakeup call for her.
I read/heard(form eurosport ?) during man's short that the ice surface is harder than expected, a lot skaters skates can't grab the ice when they landed the 3Axel, they said you can tell from the snow flakes on ice surface. Not sure if that's the same situation in Ladies.
Come to think of it, MK fall at QR is not that bad, if she is doomed to fall at worlds let it be QR. Rumor was that she had clean full run throughs (100%) all last week in practice. You can't be that clean all the time. If its due a mistake let it be QR.
Michelle Go on fire, I'll cross my finger for you!!!
I read/heard(form eurosport ?) during man's short that the ice surface is harder than expected, a lot skaters skates can't grab the ice when they landed the 3Axel, they said you can tell from the snow flakes on ice surface. Not sure if that's the same situation in Ladies.
Come to think of it, MK fall at QR is not that bad, if she is doomed to fall at worlds let it be QR. Rumor was that she had clean full run throughs (100%) all last week in practice. You can't be that clean all the time. If its due a mistake let it be QR.
Michelle Go on fire, I'll cross my finger for you!!!
Thanks Joe for your comments. Seems gifts were given and it really is bad for the skaters that these things happen even though they have no control over it.
I've read several reports that Viki was great, I just hope she doesn't get disappointed now. She's with a great coach now and I do think it'll all pull together for her now.
I heard that Irina took a lot of the program mettle out just to make it through, hate it though because this program just in its infancy was gorgeous. I hope she'll keep it for next season and really work it.
I've read several reports that Viki was great, I just hope she doesn't get disappointed now. She's with a great coach now and I do think it'll all pull together for her now.
I heard that Irina took a lot of the program mettle out just to make it through, hate it though because this program just in its infancy was gorgeous. I hope she'll keep it for next season and really work it.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I fully expect Michelle to attack. She's shown countless times before that she can rebound from disappointment and put down world class performances when they are most needed. If she doesn't do that here that doesn't necessarily spell the end. It was one qualifying round. She's got so much experience in these kinds of situations.
But, I am thrilled for Arakawa! The judges are finally giving her the marks she deserves. Hopefully, no more 5.5-5.6 range! I hope she can calm her nerves and skate a clean short.
But, I am thrilled for Arakawa! The judges are finally giving her the marks she deserves. Hopefully, no more 5.5-5.6 range! I hope she can calm her nerves and skate a clean short.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
If I'm doing the math right, Michelle still "controls her own destiny" and can win outright by wining the short and the long, no matter what anyone else does.
Is this right? Let's say Michelle wins the short and the long with either Sasha or Shuzuka in second both times. Then Michelle has
1.2 + .3 + .5 = 2.0
and Sasha or Shizuka has
.4 + .6 +1.0 = 2.0, too,
and Michelle wins the tie-breaker (the LP).
Wow, what a contest this is shaping up to be!
Mathman
Is this right? Let's say Michelle wins the short and the long with either Sasha or Shuzuka in second both times. Then Michelle has
1.2 + .3 + .5 = 2.0
and Sasha or Shizuka has
.4 + .6 +1.0 = 2.0, too,
and Michelle wins the tie-breaker (the LP).
Wow, what a contest this is shaping up to be!
Mathman
I'd never doubt your math, Mathman.
I think when commentators use the phrase "controls her own destiny" it's after the SP with regard to the finals. As everyone here knows, if you're in the top three after the short, whomever wins the free wins the gold. For one thing, Worlds is the only major competition with a Q round that counts towards the final results.
However, certainly someone in third after the Q round can control her own destiny--as much as anybody in a judged sport can control her own destiny--by winning the short and long.
As I said in my last post, "...being behind really lights a fire under Michelle. So I think we'll see some great skating from her." Also to do a six- or seven-triple LP with one or two 3/3s in the Q round and then 24 to 48 hours later do your SP puts a lot of strain on the body. So pulling off those 3/3s in the final plus being consistent with everything else is going to be very tough for the skaters going that route. Big risk, but big payoff if it they can do it. Either way, this Worlds is worlds away from being over.
Finally, one thing Michelle has that the other skaters don't: She knows what it's like to win--and lose--a place in history. To paraphrase Bronzeisgolden, Michelle has experience in knowing how to dig down deep and give world-class performances. I have no doubt we'll see them. Aside from that, it's up to the other skaters to give their own world-class performances and, of course, the judges.
These are my favorite kinds of competitions, ones where lots of things are shaken up in the beginning and everybody's expectations are challenged. Just wish I were there, though I couldn't ask for better reporting.
Rgirl
I think when commentators use the phrase "controls her own destiny" it's after the SP with regard to the finals. As everyone here knows, if you're in the top three after the short, whomever wins the free wins the gold. For one thing, Worlds is the only major competition with a Q round that counts towards the final results.
However, certainly someone in third after the Q round can control her own destiny--as much as anybody in a judged sport can control her own destiny--by winning the short and long.
As I said in my last post, "...being behind really lights a fire under Michelle. So I think we'll see some great skating from her." Also to do a six- or seven-triple LP with one or two 3/3s in the Q round and then 24 to 48 hours later do your SP puts a lot of strain on the body. So pulling off those 3/3s in the final plus being consistent with everything else is going to be very tough for the skaters going that route. Big risk, but big payoff if it they can do it. Either way, this Worlds is worlds away from being over.
Finally, one thing Michelle has that the other skaters don't: She knows what it's like to win--and lose--a place in history. To paraphrase Bronzeisgolden, Michelle has experience in knowing how to dig down deep and give world-class performances. I have no doubt we'll see them. Aside from that, it's up to the other skaters to give their own world-class performances and, of course, the judges.
These are my favorite kinds of competitions, ones where lots of things are shaken up in the beginning and everybody's expectations are challenged. Just wish I were there, though I couldn't ask for better reporting.
Rgirl
Skate great ladies
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Oh wait. I'm an idiot. You should have doubted my math, Rgirl. I think it should be:
Michelle: .4x3 + .6x1 + 1.0x1 = 2.8
Sasha/Shizuka: .4x1 + .6x2 + 1.0x2 = 3.6
A clear win for Michelle.
Yes. This is true. This is what is going to happen.
Innumerateman
(Innumeratebutpropheticman)
Michelle: .4x3 + .6x1 + 1.0x1 = 2.8
Sasha/Shizuka: .4x1 + .6x2 + 1.0x2 = 3.6
A clear win for Michelle.
Yes. This is true. This is what is going to happen.
Innumerateman
(Innumeratebutpropheticman)
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
So in order for Michelle to win gold, she HAS to win both the SP and LP? Inquiring mathematically-challenged minds want to know.
